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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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 Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:59 |
 BaldFriede wrote:
I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it.
Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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It is also worth adding that a lot of prog rock from the 70s actually was heavy, be it KC's Larks/Red, Genesis's Return of the Giant Hogweed or Gentle Giant's Pantagruel's Nativity. Even Tarkus, actually. Heavy in the true sense of the word. Heavy is not the monopoly of 80s metal tonality.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 30 2011 at 05:36 |
ExittheLemming wrote:
Yep, perceptive post. There's a lot of prog metal that appears to be frightened of leaving any spaces between the notes (so the music doesn't breathe) e.g. ELP sound like 3 great swordsmen while DT sound like any old machine gunners etc 
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Very well said, sir. Yes, long pieces in particular work better with spaces. Also, prog metal abhors reinforcement but if I don't know how exactly the song got from point A to B, it's not very interesting just listening to connecting-the-dots sections. Not that reinforcement by itself would solve the problem and in a metal context, it would bring on its own set of problems. I still feel the no.1 problem is prog metal songwriters are loath to venture away from 80s metal tones, which I am not sure lend themselves to a certain looseness that makes prog rock (good prog rock, that is!) appealing. Black Sabbath on Sabotage were a lot more nimble than many of the melodic prog metal bands are able to be and that at least partly has to do with the tones (also to do with their predominant blues influences, possibly).
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Ruby900
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 739
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 03:39 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
Loudness and aggression is the reason for some people, but you can't generalize at all. I just find metal cheesy and ridiculous, almost nothing is too loud and aggressive. |
I think that this is where I am....
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"I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman
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Logos
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 2383
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Posted: March 29 2011 at 00:26 |
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ELP sucks though.
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 16:04 |
BaldFriede wrote:
andyman1125 wrote:
Now don't you go and say "But I like prog metal!!" I know some people do, but a lot of people don't.
Why?
In my opinion, I think many of the classic prog fans don't like the heavier music tainting their genre. If you like Harry Potter, Prog Metal is like half-bloods: where classic prog rock is pure-blood and metal is mud-blood-- when the two mix, the pure-bloods don't like it. Prog metal is essentially the combination of bands that most classic fans don't like, such as Metallica or Slayer, with the bands they do, such as Yes, Genesis or Rush. The resulted product is a tainted one. You wouldn't eat something that had dirt on it would you?
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I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it.
Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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Yep, perceptive post. There's a lot of prog metal that appears to be frightened of leaving any spaces between the notes (so the music doesn't breathe) e.g. ELP sound like 3 great swordsmen while DT sound like any old machine gunners etc
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silcir
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 06 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 190
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:53 |
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i like some minor quantities of prog metal. i think i still could listen to DT's awake without stopping it (well, maybe not).
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:48 |
andyman1125 wrote:
Now don't you go and say "But I like prog metal!!" I know some people do, but a lot of people don't.
Why?
In my opinion, I think many of the classic prog fans don't like the heavier music tainting their genre. If you like Harry Potter, Prog Metal is like half-bloods: where classic prog rock is pure-blood and metal is mud-blood-- when the two mix, the pure-bloods don't like it. Prog metal is essentially the combination of bands that most classic fans don't like, such as Metallica or Slayer, with the bands they do, such as Yes, Genesis or Rush. The resulted product is a tainted one. You wouldn't eat something that had dirt on it would you?
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I don't like prog metal, and it has nothing to do with the heavy part; I like it heavy. I dislike the double bass-drumming that usually is part of prog metal. Also prog metal usually is just heavy and nothing else; harmonically it is rather conventional, symphonic almost, and I am more into the weird stuff. If they were heavy with lots of dissonances and refrained from the double bass-drumming I would be fine with it. Actually I think double-bass drumming rather reduces the heaviness instead of adding to it, simply because you lose means of accentuation. If there is bass drum on almost any beat it is the same as if there is bass drum on no beat at all.; it is the accentuation which makes it heavy.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 15:34 |
Because if it's not Scottish, it's crrrrap? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18169
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Posted: March 28 2011 at 14:34 |
Mr. Maestro wrote:
... but I know people who cannot find heavy riffage, intense vocals, grim lyrics, and self-indulgent instrumental work appealing no matter how progressive it is. |
Sad ... that music has to be "specified" as to what it is and can be ... specially when the 20th century was almost exclusively about breaking conventions ...
Intense vocals, has nothing to do with "metal" any more than it does with folk ... or anything else ... and I would like to suggest you sit and listen to Fairport Convention's song "One More Chance", and then listen to the original demo with Sandy Denny on piano only ... on the remastered CD, and then realize ... she was gone two weeks later ... and did not have a chance ... and that haunting voice in that song is almost prophetic ... and you don't need to scream to get it across, except some idiots don't know the difference between being themselves and having to do something for money and an audience only.
Grim lyrics ... yeah, like one can take seriously Rob Zombie or Marylin Manson or the many copies that are considered "Prog" something or other.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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MoodyRush
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 04 2011
Location: Here Be Llamas
Status: Offline
Points: 383
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Posted: March 27 2011 at 14:52 |
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I haven't checked out too much prog metal yet, including a Dream Theater album, and the qualm I have with that album is that the music gets very overblown and pretensious and technical. Nothing wrong with those things, I do sorta like Scenes from a Memory. Opeth is pretty cool, very moody and skilled as well.
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Repner
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 16 2007
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 203
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Posted: March 20 2011 at 12:27 |
stonebeard wrote:
Couple reasons. I'm going to reat it as why people don't like metal in general very much:
1) Most bands take themselves way too seriously when their lyrics are just plain cheesy and laughable. They should be laughing about it. But sometimes they and the fans take slaying dragons really seriously.
2) The lyrics are often really pretentious or really cheesy. I like Pain of Salvation because most of the time Gildenlocks keeps the lyrics personal, interpersonal, and relatable. other times you get "The Dark Eternal Night" or some philosophical crap. No thanks. Artists aren't usually the go-to guys for philosophy.
3) Solos. "Hey cool riff...Nice solo, man! Oh hey here's another on--oh wait why are you starting another one that one wasn't even ove---OH DAMMIT NOT AGAIN." |
Fair enough, but aren't these usually peoples complaints about prog rock in general? 
Edited by Repner - March 20 2011 at 12:29
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Aragon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 186
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Posted: March 20 2011 at 10:14 |
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I was used to listen in 1995-2004 a few bands like Dream Theather, Nighwish, and Stratovarious, and other power Metal band, because i miss so much the sound and the keyboards of the '80, and in those band that sound was present, although a bit much heavier. So it's true that the Prog Metal and Power Metal has their influences on the '80 style of pop metal with the symphonic keyboards, but since 6 years i hate prog metal because is very very boring and it's calculated. That i hate more of prog metal is the heavy riffage of guitar and the speedy of the solo.
Maybe only Queensryche was a good way to do prog Metal!
Edited by Aragon - March 20 2011 at 10:20
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PinkFloydrulez
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 28 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 60
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Posted: February 10 2011 at 17:07 |
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Most of it is just.... lame, boring, cheesy, overdone. and I love metal.
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http://www.last.fm/user/PinkFloydrulez
http://rateyourmusic.com/~pfr_77
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The_Jester
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 29 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 741
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:32 |
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Because what I heard of prog metal is mostly metal with some arrangements. I had no chance to listen to something else than prog metal that looks entirely like pure metal with sounds of the 80's.
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La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle!
- Napoléon Bonaparte
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Baggra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 16 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 221
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:31 |
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Prog Geo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2010
Location: Athens (Greece)
Status: Offline
Points: 2555
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:05 |
Baggra wrote:
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What does this image mean?
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Baggra
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 16 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 221
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:02 |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 12:35 |
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Because there are only two kinds of music: Country and Western.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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trackstoni
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 23 2008
Location: Lebanon
Status: Offline
Points: 934
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 11:30 |
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Simply cause i don't like Metal , i like Golden & Platinum stuff !
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Tracking Tracks of Rock
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 08:31 |
For me its not the Loudness or Heavyness, its the style.
I like experimental music, like Mars Volta, Tool. Pain of Salvation
But i get faster tired of the more straight forvard Metal, like Steve Vai, Dream T, Ayreon.
So personaly i would descripe it like, if its mainly a mix of "Yes" inspired Symphonic's and Metal, its not my favorite.
But if its more leaning against an Eclectic Prog / Metal mix, im in.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Opinions on why some don't like prog metal?
