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Icarium View Drop Down
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Points: 34083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2010 at 11:51
I am not Assange follower just curious being that don't seem the wrong about releasing documents, transparency is important in democracys and for western countries whom have fought for freedom of spech from 1000 years of supression/domination from Roman Catolisisme, feudal system, class systems, Napolic Wars, national sosialisme and such, Europe is build upon war upon war, where only transparency can hold the nations here at hold and discuss things (even if diplomacy is a slow prosses, it don't aquire guns, only white gloves Tongue) 
 
it takes alot to make a European to wrinckle on his nose, and have had 4 or 5 more terror attacs after the two whom hitted US between 9/11 and that 2010 inisdent 


Edited by aginor - December 08 2010 at 11:52
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2010 at 11:40
Now the process is being broken down through fantastic coverage by the press at large. The people who disagree with Assange  exposing illegal documents are  predicting a 2 year  course of legal procedures before justice is served.. Many who feel he is a threat to the U.S. are stating that bringing him in on these accounts is the legal method or procedure to eventually convict him of the release of secret documents. Like as if, the rape charge means nothing in the real world other than to be used as a vehicle to proceed in turning him over to the U.S. and further  convicting him of treason or espionage. The rape charge would normally seem rather meaningless to the U.S. justice system considering the recent coverage of the so-called facts.
 
. Many who agree with Assange's view and justify his actions, disagree with his method of procedures which is far from favouritism and  appearing to be more hypocritical. Then there are die-hard Assange followers everywhere who feel he has brought the world justice. I knew if he was busted, that the news media would turn it into a circus. It was just a matter of time really. I follow the news story everyday like a nut and it seems too much of a mixed bag. I feel like a hypocrite myself and with an extremest attitude towards either side.    
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Points: 34083 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2010 at 11:34
are Wikileaks now blocked in USA just wondering, jut read somthing about it on the new
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2010 at 19:49
Man Sweeden has ridiculous laws. Being arrested for having a condom break and not wearing one during sex? f**k man. That country would suck. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 28057 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2010 at 16:21
 
WHAT'S IN THE BOX?!?!?


Edited by stonebeard - December 07 2010 at 16:26
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2010 at 10:31
Speaking of the hivemind Henry, it seems they've now begun.
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Points: 3252 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2010 at 07:56
WHISKY LEAKS IN MY MOUTH IS GOOD
Hi progmaniacs of all the world
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2010 at 04:13
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Quote......"We need to be un-American and execute anyone responsible for these leaks getting out"
Christ, I find the un-American aspect to that statement to be insulting. Who are you considering when you say we would be un-American in pulling off such an act? Un-American? Un-American compared to what? Assange not being an on-going mystery to the U.S. and actions not applied by the administration in the past with this creep annoy me personally anyway. Now the U.S. efforts to bust this guy on so-called criminal offenses are considered a political stunt? Don't you find what you read in the press a bit revolting or just plain stupied? The a-hole who has put the lives of children in danger is a journalist and criminalising journalistic activity is the way to go in this case. He is a worm.GeekAnd Manning with his Lady Gaga cd? This is insulting press!LOL  He is a traitor for sure but, I have to laugh at the coverage on this geek.....He erased his Gaga cd and downloaded confidential information?LOLWhistleblowers and Lady Gaga?LOL Assange warns that any goverment that tries to curtail his activities risks triggering a new deluge of state and commercial secrets?LOL  What? You must be joking?  What are we talking about here? This is all just good PRESS!    Assange needs to be caught anyway regardless of all the pathetic news reports which I personally find repulsive. It's like I'm watching "Saturday Night Live" It's like journalistic geek hiding in the U.K. verses our administration.  Stop the press!    Do what you have to do! Put Manning to do hard time in a military prison and Assange the rock star can be executed! And then lets get back to the real world and take care of problems that are so much more important. 


You do realize Assange has committed no crime? The supreme court has upheld his right to do what he is doing. 


Why would it be legal in your book? He is a hacker. Is that legal? He is an anarchist with a huge ego. What has Wikileaks done for liberty or democracy?


Why would it be legal? It would be legal because it is legal. The supreme court has affirmed this. Sorry if you disagree, but I'm just stating facts. Assange is not a hacker. He is disseminating information which he legally obtained. The leaker is the one who would be able to prosecuted. 


He is an anarchist with a huge ego. Last I checked that's no crime.


Now what has Wikileaks done for our liberty. A lot? It's provided concrete evidence of the hubris of our government, the illicit activities it has participated in, shown the massive contradictions in our foreign policy, and detailed the murderous actions of our government abroad. To any honest, knowledgeable person, these things were already painfully obvious, but bringing them into full light gives them new power. A blow to government is a boast to your liberty.


What has it done for democracy? Who the hell cares? But again it has done plenty along the same lines as that above. Our government acts with callous disregard and disdain for its people. If that's the 'democracy' you want to worship then I have little to say to you.


I'm sorry for the rant but it is the way I believe. I can't buy into what you are saying. I have been around too many liberals who indulge in conspiracy theories about our goverment. 9/11 and it just escalates into insanity. They take every freak or un-explainable detail of the tragic 9/11 and run with it. How could 3 guys learn how to fly a plane but refuse in learning how to land it.....like as if to say these things are definitely pre-planned. I simply don't agree with Assange's intentions to reveal information to civilians that (as you say), are already painfully obvious. Which I have considered all of this, however, I can't agree with releasing U.S. secret documents. It personally doesn't sit right with me. He has made recent threats to the  American goverment and I'm sure that you are aware of them. If it seems ridiculous to people?..fine  If he is bluffing?...fine. But he makes threats like a dictator would. Same mentality. 
 

A blow to goverment is a boast to your liberty? I'm not even going to argue with you. You should consider Assange before you have set ideas on this. If it's truly the way you feel then ....it is your right. I don't disrespect your right to believe in what you want. But why do you seem so trust worthy or completely keen on defending this guy? I'm not going to continue to debate on our goverment with you. We have an opposite belief system.


From what I can gather the greatest damage done by all these leaks is done to the trust the people have in their politicians to not be lying, scheming devious sh*theads. The whole 'national security' card is played by the authorities when they wish to discredit the source of information leaks.

The latest leak regarding the US and NATO reinforcing the baltic states against Russian invasion, tickled me. Does anyone think the Russians didn't know about this?? The fact that it was reported in Pravda and Russia Today (RT) over a year ago, will come as a big surpise to anyone who thinks what they see on the tea time news is really whats going on in the world.

BTW, I thought it was the 'Libertarians' who peddled 9/11 conspiracy theories, and that the Liberals were part of the conspiracy. Oh well, I guess it depends who you ask.
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2010 at 11:42
The hivemind has been unbearable about wikileaks the past week. No, I'm not canceling my Amazon and Paypal account, and if you're upset at them you're dumb, shut up.

Because people weren't already mad enough at him. 
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2010 at 11:39
Anon (not surprisingly) is taking Assange's side in this:

https://uloadr.com/u/4.png

It wouldn't let me link it in the text, and I won't post the actual picture because it drops an f-bomb and is way too big.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2010 at 07:31
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

You clearly didn't understand my point.

Also, I don't care about innocents in other countries? That's funny to accuse me of since I support these leaks which bring the deaths of these innocents to light and can serve as an impetus to ending American involvement overseas which is leading to the loss of tens of thousands of innocent life. 
Don't you understand that I am merely asking what you think the outcome may be in the end? Since many of your posts, I have investigated more and watched various past interviews with Assange, films which show the deaths of innocent people and interviews with individuals that support the leaks. I understand the importance of what Assange is trying to do. I understand the importance of your position. I DO respect that!  I am concerned over what this will develop into much later. This seems dangerous to me. The hunt for Assange and the threats  between him and the U.S. have increased with intensity. How much of this will persuade or convince people to think differently about Assange or the U.S.? And please no jokes because I know how intellectually or well-informed you are on this subject. Considering your position and your expertise, would you be willing to give me your personal insight on what may be the outcome of this dilemma? I am trying to dismiss propaganda tatics through the press and on either side of the fence and maybe make a prediction. I know this sounds insane but, you are now convincing me to believe differently to an extent. I have been  doing a lot of research on Assange this past week. It's very controversially nerve racking and  difficult for me to sort out. Now I have mixed feelings.     

It's hard to know the outcome without knowing all of the content. I have no idea really. I think that trying to arrest or shut down Wikileaks would be a very bad move for the government. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 23:45
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Why would it be legal in your book? He is a hacker. Is that legal? He is an anarchist with a huge ego. What has Wikileaks done for liberty or democracy?
"Hacking" had nothing to do with any of the leaks, and Julian was not personally responsible for any of them. I think you don't understand the actual situation.
You are correct. I am still watching all the footage of the case on You Tube, watching the news, and conversing with friends on the phone who seem concerned about it. I obviously watched too many videos of people who make those accusations but, now I am seeing the other side of the fence. I am still attempting to consider all aspects of the reports. I can;t make a decision of my own as there is too much information to ponder over. I feel now that I am starting to lean towards Assange's view. I must consider the intelligent views of both sides. I am getting the facts straight and will be keeping your points of the subject in mind. I am a bit patriotic about my country and get on the defense sometimes by refusing to admit my goverment commits crimes. That's my problem. I am however leaning more towards Assange and his open statements to the public regarding the intent and purpose of the leaks.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 23:25
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

You clearly didn't understand my point.

Also, I don't care about innocents in other countries? That's funny to accuse me of since I support these leaks which bring the deaths of these innocents to light and can serve as an impetus to ending American involvement overseas which is leading to the loss of tens of thousands of innocent life. 
Don't you understand that I am merely asking what you think the outcome may be in the end? Since many of your posts, I have investigated more and watched various past interviews with Assange, films which show the deaths of innocent people and interviews with individuals that support the leaks. I understand the importance of what Assange is trying to do. I understand the importance of your position. I DO respect that!  I am concerned over what this will develop into much later. This seems dangerous to me. The hunt for Assange and the threats  between him and the U.S. have increased with intensity. How much of this will persuade or convince people to think differently about Assange or the U.S.? And please no jokes because I know how intellectually or well-informed you are on this subject. Considering your position and your expertise, would you be willing to give me your personal insight on what may be the outcome of this dilemma? I am trying to dismiss propaganda tatics through the press and on either side of the fence and maybe make a prediction. I know this sounds insane but, you are now convincing me to believe differently to an extent. I have been  doing a lot of research on Assange this past week. It's very controversially nerve racking and  difficult for me to sort out. Now I have mixed feelings.     


Edited by TODDLER - December 05 2010 at 23:28
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 21:21
You clearly didn't understand my point.

Also, I don't care about innocents in other countries? That's funny to accuse me of since I support these leaks which bring the deaths of these innocents to light and can serve as an impetus to ending American involvement overseas which is leading to the loss of tens of thousands of innocent life. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 21:04
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Even if in fact what we hear in the news media can be summed up or believed as truth, my personal gut feeling is that Assange is opening a portal for evil. Technically has he committed a crime? Maybe not. Maybe the goverment can charge him with espionage? Assange, if any of you have noticed,...is giving orders and making direct threats. If any kind of tragic event were to ever take place and people were to die or suffer greatly ....and all due to a leak out, I would have to hold Manning (of course responsible) but, more so...Assange. I don't think the American people can trust him and it is not in their best interest (even anti-Americans), to see his leaking of secret documents as a form of justice. The guy is evil. 

Your position is moronic. Opening a portal to evil? Wtf is he a necromancer? What evil does he invite?

You're so ready to hang Assange, so let me ask you something. Have you ever mentioned any of the info that was in the leaks to anybody? If so you should be ready to hang yourself. Assange has done nothing except spread information that he legally obtained. If you've talked to anyone about something in Wikileaks you've done the same thing as him. So be prepared to be hung with him. 
You are misunderstanding what I refer to as evil. How can you not have empathy for innocent people in other countries? Do you think Americans are not concerned about the end results? Everyone I work with and many of my friends have expressed a worry or a concern over this guy releasing more documents. It could cause pandemonium in other countries and people in America have expressed that to me. There is a persistence with this guy. Many Americans are not impressed about these documents being revealed and it's not because they praise the goverment. It's because they do not trust Assange. You have every right to believe the way you do. You may think that people like me are blind. I can totally understand your reaction due to the facts you have made your determinations upon.. Many Americans and from different generations have a different mind set about Assange. They don't respect him and so I guess people like us should be hanged correct?
 
 Anybody who has the clarity to be suspicious of goverments and corporations and the audacity to advance democracy as a force held by the people needs to get the message that bad things will happen to you if you proceed down this path. This was an answer to Assange's threats.  
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 20:33
I don't care about your opinion, but you're objectively wrong on some points. I'm not sure what 9/11 conspiracies have to do with anything. The atrocities being committed abroad aren't conspiracy theories. They have been verified in numerous cases. They may mean nothing to you, but the comparisons to fringe beliefs of the political spectrum are unfounded.

Making threats like a dictator would? Actually the government is guilty of doing that. He's just defending himself.

I'm defending him because he's innocent. I tend to defend innocent people from being thrown in jail or executed. Just this crazy thing I tend to do. I also defend him because he's doing a great thing. 

You can't just call it an opposite belief system. As I said before, you're objectively wrong on some points. You can't brush that aside and hide behind a "I have a right to my opinion" position. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 20:28
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Quote......"We need to be un-American and execute anyone responsible for these leaks getting out"

Christ, I find the un-American aspect to that statement to be insulting. Who are you considering when you say we would be un-American in pulling off such an act? Un-American? Un-American compared to what? Assange not being an on-going mystery to the U.S. and actions not applied by the administration in the past with this creep annoy me personally anyway.

Now the U.S. efforts to bust this guy on so-called criminal offenses are considered a political stunt? Don't you find what you read in the press a bit revolting or just plain stupied? The a-hole who has put the lives of children in danger is a journalist and criminalising journalistic activity is the way to go in this case. He is a worm.Geek

And Manning with his Lady Gaga cd? This is insulting press!LOL  He is a traitor for sure but, I have to laugh at the coverage on this geek.....He erased his Gaga cd and downloaded confidential information?LOL

Whistleblowers and Lady Gaga?LOL 

Assange warns that any goverment that tries to curtail his activities risks triggering a new deluge of state and commercial secrets?LOL  What? You must be joking?  What are we talking about here?

This is all just good PRESS!    Assange needs to be caught anyway regardless of all the pathetic news reports which I personally find repulsive. It's like I'm watching "Saturday Night Live" It's like journalistic geek hiding in the U.K. verses our administration.  Stop the press!    Do what you have to do! Put Manning to do hard time in a military prison and Assange the rock star can be executed! And then lets get back to the real world and take care of problems that are so much more important. 

You do realize Assange has committed no crime? The supreme court has upheld his right to do what he is doing. 
Why would it be legal in your book? He is a hacker. Is that legal? He is an anarchist with a huge ego. What has Wikileaks done for liberty or democracy?

Why would it be legal? It would be legal because it is legal. The supreme court has affirmed this. Sorry if you disagree, but I'm just stating facts. Assange is not a hacker. He is disseminating information which he legally obtained. The leaker is the one who would be able to prosecuted. 

He is an anarchist with a huge ego. Last I checked that's no crime.

Now what has Wikileaks done for our liberty. A lot? It's provided concrete evidence of the hubris of our government, the illicit activities it has participated in, shown the massive contradictions in our foreign policy, and detailed the murderous actions of our government abroad. To any honest, knowledgeable person, these things were already painfully obvious, but bringing them into full light gives them new power. A blow to government is a boast to your liberty.

What has it done for democracy? Who the hell cares? But again it has done plenty along the same lines as that above. Our government acts with callous disregard and disdain for its people. If that's the 'democracy' you want to worship then I have little to say to you.
I'm sorry for the rant but it is the way I believe. I can't buy into what you are saying. I have been around too many liberals who indulge in conspiracy theories about our goverment. 9/11 and it just escalates into insanity. They take every freak or un-explainable detail of the tragic 9/11 and run with it. How could 3 guys learn how to fly a plane but refuse in learning how to land it.....like as if to say these things are definitely pre-planned. I simply don't agree with Assange's intentions to reveal information to civilians that (as you say), are already painfully obvious. Which I have considered all of this, however, I can't agree with releasing U.S. secret documents. It personally doesn't sit right with me. He has made recent threats to the  American goverment and I'm sure that you are aware of them. If it seems ridiculous to people?..fine  If he is bluffing?...fine. But he makes threats like a dictator would. Same mentality. 
 
A blow to goverment is a boast to your liberty? I'm not even going to argue with you. You should consider Assange before you have set ideas on this. If it's truly the way you feel then ....it is your right. I don't disrespect your right to believe in what you want. But why do you seem so trust worthy or completely keen on defending this guy? I'm not going to continue to debate on our goverment with you. We have an opposite belief system.
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Points: 17309 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:48
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

 

Opening a portal to evil? Wtf is he a necromancer? 


LOLLOL
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:44
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Why would it be legal in your book? He is a hacker. Is that legal? He is an anarchist with a huge ego. What has Wikileaks done for liberty or democracy?
"Hacking" had nothing to do with any of the leaks, and Julian was not personally responsible for any of them. I think you don't understand the actual situation.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2010 at 19:25
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Even if in fact what we hear in the news media can be summed up or believed as truth, my personal gut feeling is that Assange is opening a portal for evil. Technically has he committed a crime? Maybe not. Maybe the goverment can charge him with espionage? Assange, if any of you have noticed,...is giving orders and making direct threats. If any kind of tragic event were to ever take place and people were to die or suffer greatly ....and all due to a leak out, I would have to hold Manning (of course responsible) but, more so...Assange. I don't think the American people can trust him and it is not in their best interest (even anti-Americans), to see his leaking of secret documents as a form of justice. The guy is evil. 

Your position is moronic. Opening a portal to evil? Wtf is he a necromancer? What evil does he invite?

You're so ready to hang Assange, so let me ask you something. Have you ever mentioned any of the info that was in the leaks to anybody? If so you should be ready to hang yourself. Assange has done nothing except spread information that he legally obtained. If you've talked to anyone about something in Wikileaks you've done the same thing as him. So be prepared to be hung with him. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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