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Bob Greece ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
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According to the BBC news today, Condoleeza went to Israel to express support not to ask for a ceasefire.
This was obvious to me. Israel won't get rid of Hizbollah this way. The bombing of Lebanon is just a big recruiting drive for them. What little chance there was for peace in the Middle East has just got a lot lot further away.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I guess the US regard this as part of the 'war on terror' They must be delighted that Israel are doing the dirty work on Hezbollah here. After all, Hezbollah are very strongly linked to Iran and Syria. However, it seems that Israels current campaign has been ineffective in crushing the terrorists, and has succeeded only in killing civillians. Sadly it will get to a point where so many are radicalised and enraged by the Zionist onslaught, that the terror cycle will be set to worsen for Israel and the west. Not improve. Perhaps Israel have realised this and will set about a mass extermination program once their invasion starts. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Bob Greece ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
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Yes. I first remember this when reading online Serbian newspapers during the Kosovo war.
You would hope that having the ability to read everyones' viewpoints would increase understanding and reduce conflicts. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Bob Greece ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1823 |
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I've heard that they have now started bombing sources of food production. Is there really nothing that cannot be considered a target?
If they really gave 2 hoots about saving innocent peoples' lives, they would have sent somebody immediately that Israel started bombing and not wait until hundreds are dead and the country is half destroyed.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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While Israel continues to push its dubious agenda of bombing ambulances and taring this country to pieces, the US and UK stand back and applaud. The rest of the world is not so accomodating of Israels 'right to defend itself'
Well, all is not lost. Diplomacy had to rear its ugly head eventually, and today Condoleeza Rice visits Israel for 'frank' discussions with Mr Olmert. What effect will her visit have? Is there seriously a hope for a ceasfire with Americas help, or is this visit nothing more than window dressing to create the impression that the Bush Whitehouse wants Israel to stop?? Here comes Condie.... Israel has rejected the idea of putting UN peacekeepers in a 'buffer zone' on the northern Israeli border, and favours a NATO force to police the area instead. Is this a good idea or just a back door means of positioning western forces for when Iran and Syria join in the fun?? Edited by Blacksword - July 25 2006 at 03:06 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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This report from the Jerusalem post makes interesting reading. It seems Sen John McCain (Arizona) and former house speaker Newt Gingrich have a somewhat melodramtic perspective on the crisis.
Jerusalem Post The difference in international media reporting will always fascinate me. Edited by Blacksword - July 18 2006 at 16:47 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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edible_buddha ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 195 |
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Finding the launchign sites is exceedingly difficult, Eetu. Arab guerillas have a tendency to build their military posts next to civilian targets. (I.e. all those bomb factories in Gaza next to nursery schools and hospitals -- they feel it gives them some cover of safety.)
Err Nets...
Do you have any understanding how small Gaza actually is??? On top of this, consider just how many ppl actually live there, and consider that Israel has been pounding this tiny plot of land for quite a while now. It is one of the most densely populated areas on this planet... Also, some have stated that palestine has been committing 'terror', yet Israel receives 6-8 billion US dollars in 'millitary aid' per year. And its not as if they are not using it. Where else are you going to put these 'bomb factories', assuming that your source is correct.
When some one bombs you, you do have a wish/desire to bomb them back... That has been Israels line for many years now, and gives them 'reason' to 'punish' the palestinian ppl. Yet, this reasoning cannot be used by the Palestinians for their retaliations with far less sophisticated equipment in this tit-for tat conflict. Why is that? Whats fair for one is fair for all btw... Also, Israel have a rather wide practice of not allowing ambulances with palestinian casualties to receive medical aid, and they have hit quite a few hospitals themselves... That is after the bulldozing of entire civilian blocks on many occasions. And I will repeat something else that I have said previously... Check out just how many civilians have died on both sides....Terror has been committed on both sides.
I thought that the Israli government would have gained enough sence that military might just does not help them get what they desire. Apparently, the support for the Hamas-majority government has actually grown since the most recent attacks in Gaza (apparently triggered by the capture of a 19 yr old Israeli soldier). U c, the ppl who live there are simply used to such a lifestyle.
Dont get me wrong, I condemn the use of arms at any civilian territary, whether in Israel, Lebanon, Palestine, or else where. And palestine/Hesballah/Lebanon et al, are just as bad (not worse, not better). However, what really riles me about this topic so far is that many here seem to think that Israel is the 'Innocent victim'.
They are not.
Edited by edible_buddha - July 18 2006 at 07:19 |
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I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long.
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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^ Estimates are that they have used about 10% of the their stockpile, in other words nothing. They get around $250 million a year from Iran, that buys a lot of rockets. Luckily, they haven't used any of their supposed Iranian Zelzal missiles, which can reach Tel Aviv. If this happens, I have no doubt either Syria or Iran is in for some bombing, since Hizbullah clearly lacks the capability to build or buy missiles with 100km ranges on their own.
Finding the launchign sites is exceedingly difficult, Eetu. Arab guerillas have a tendency to build their military posts next to civilian targets. (I.e. all those bomb factories in Gaza next to nursery schools and hospitals -- they feel it gives them some cover of safety.)
![]() Jpost.com -- worth a read.
Edited by NetsNJFan - July 17 2006 at 18:03 |
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Eetu Pellonpaa ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 17 2005 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 4828 |
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I'm just watching the news, and there have been more missiles being fired at Israel, one claimed to hit a hospital. It's understandable that this leads to a counter attack, but bombing the rooftops used for launching sites probably won't kill anything but the people living downstairs, as the guerrilas have surely already fled. Couldn't these rockets be tried to be shot down from patrolling fighters or by anti-aircarft artillery before they reach their targets? Is there any estimations how much Hezbollah does have these rockets?
I feel sad for all of those who are and will be hurt.
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VanderGraafKommandöh ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
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Apologies to bring this thread down a bit, but...
![]() Now things may continue on as they were. |
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Haha very true. Fox News is itching for a war. Bill OReilly was really pushing the Israeli UN Ambassador "So why haven't you declared war on Iran yet!?!?!"......blowhard
The best exchange from that interview, Israelis are the epitome of bluntness:
O'Reilly: What do you say to the world leaders like the UN and the EU and Russia who say Israel is using disproportionate force? Dan Gillerman: You're god-damn right we are using disproportionate force!
But yea, Fox News keeps pushing the Iran-Syria connection. Everyone knows Hizbullah is Irans lapdog, but neither Iran nor Israel want this to spiral.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Iran could be drawn on sooner than we think. The Israelis are blaming Iran and Syria directly for the Hezbollah attacks, as they believe the rockets/missiles are being supplied by them, which they probably are. Israel are itching for an excuse to attack Iran/Syria as much as those countries would love to flatten Israel. It's strange how different news sources report things differently. FOX News in the US, reported that the missile that struck Haifa a few days back, was Iranian in design, and launched by Iranians operating in South Lebanon. The BBC did not make the Iranian claim. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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NetsNJFan ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 12 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3047 |
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Golda Meir: "We will have peace with them [the Arabs] when they love their children more than they hate us."
Looking at parades of 3 and 4 year olds in Hamas/Hizbullah garb with toy guns and bomb belts, this day seems long off
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Tony R ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: July 16 2004 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 11979 |
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Some kind of negotiated stand-off is needed quickly or this will be war.
Iran is already under-pressure over its nuclear capability and the constant "threat" of the USA taking action.A strike against Israel is surely not out of the question... |
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maani ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Founding Moderator Joined: January 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2632 |
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Although nothing excuses violence, aggression, oppression, etc. on either side, I could not help but give serious thought to something one of the Israeli military officials said. Comparing the way each side sees the conflict, he said:
"Every Arab child who dies as the result of an Israeli missile is a tragedy. However, every Israeli child who dies as the result of an Arab missile is a victory."
Sadly, there does seem to be some truth in this.
Peace.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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The Israelis are now saying, the rocket that struck Haifa, was actually not a rocket, but a missile, of Iranian design, likely to have been fired by the Iranian revolutionary guard, operating in Southern Lebanon.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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With respect, that all a bit simplistic. Firstly, Israel was not established as a result of the holocaust. The decision to set a up a Jewish homeland in Palestine was made almost 40 years before WWII, in Britain. WWII may have been a catalyst, but it would have happened eventually anyway. Sadly, it looks as though this conflict may draw in Iran and/or Syria eventually. The stakes are very high, and although total annhilation of Isreals enemies may seem like the ultimate solution, the consequences could be dire for all of us. It cant have escaped anyones attention that neither Russia or China are not on the same page as the rest of the UN Security council. This conflict will have been in the planning for some years, as Russia and China's potential response will have been too. I guess if it ever came down to it; the red lights flashing, and the rockets flying, I would know what side my Bagel is buttered too. If the time came to pick a side, pick up a rifle and get stuck in, you'd have to ask yourself; Liberal democracy, or Islamic theocracy?? mmm, I wonder which would be better for us all... Still, lets hope it doesn't come to that. I remain very critical of Israels actions. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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spacecraft ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: February 04 2006 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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For too long the middle east has ben left to do it's own thing, usually bombing, missiles and suicide bombings. I have no time for cowards who blow themselves and innocent people up.....the arabs seem to find a speciality in this. All in the name of religion they will tell you...bulllsh*t, war is all about land, who has it and who wants it. The Israelis would love to eradicate the Palestinains, and vice versa, but at least the Israelis are worthwhile and offer more to the world than do the Palestinians.
Just think, if Nazi Germany hadn't decided on a process of extermination of the Jews, the middle east crisi would never have happened. The Jews have been thrown from one disaster to another, and none of their own making.
I fear that the only way to solve this problem , is i fthe Israelis go for a full pre-emptive strike and destroy the Palestinians, or the mad Iranians try and nuke them......i know who'd i want to win..................Israel.
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Britsh warships head for Lebanon.
No evacuation order has been given forBrits in Lebanon, as yet. The two British navy vessels heading for Lebanon are said to be going there incase an evacuation is ordered. Edited by Blacksword - July 15 2006 at 19:58 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Blacksword ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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Perhaps even more worrying is the stockpile of Russian 'Sunburn' missiles, rumoured to have been sold to Iran about 5 years ago. These advanced cruise missiles could hit Tel Aviv in under three minutes - launched from Iran - and are undetectable by radar. Their payload is bigger than anything so far fired at Israel, and they are pin point accurate. The Russians flogged a load of these to the Chinese too (that is official as far as I know)The Chinese are believed to have fited theirs with nuclear warheads. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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