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David_D View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 14:24
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

And as I am very into Swans, to me that is more of an Eclectic Prog band than a post-rock band.

I'll give The Great Annihilator  a new listen, and The Glowing Man as well.




Edited by David_D - May 11 2022 at 14:40
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 13:44

Thank you very much, Logan, for telling us much more about the history and character of the Eclectic "sub-genre",
and for your list as well. 
It looks like, you prefer not to be a member of this "club" at all, so I just welcome you to joining this thread
- but that very much.
And thank you very much again for your so informative post. Smile 




Edited by David_D - May 11 2022 at 13:46
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 13:14

By the way, here's maybe an interesting intepretation of the lyrics from The Undercover Man:

"Hammill writes some stunningly complex lyrics. This one appears to have several of his recurring "themes".
Specifically, Mirrors and Illusion or the difference between perception and reality.
I think the narrative arc is of a performer (Hammill) staring into his mirror and questioning his motives for being who he is.
He's talking to his reflection - "You and the Undercover man". The undercover man is his subconscious.
The cracking dam is a maybe reference to the possible consequences of self doubt. It's interesting to me that it also appears to be Hammill offering his own hand to his drowning self.I think this may mean that we have in ourselves to power of self control."  

(written by PBA on songmeannings.com)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 12:21
I was an early member of the Eclectic Prog team, a category, as said, that was created with the great Art Rock split in 2007. We, Ricochet (Viktor) and I (and later Moris/ Clarke as I recall), didn't describe it as a proper genre or subgenre, instead we thought of it just as a category which worked reasonably well for PA purposes. Multi-tagging albums with various genres would have been much better methinks, but this site's architecture doe not support that apparently.

Of course there are many Prog acts that are truly eclectic outside of Eclectic Prog, and I tend to think of Prog commonly as inherently eclectic (eclectic by nature), but we used it for ones that we felt would have been appropriate for the Art Rock category, and crossed several of the Prog subgenres (for instance, if it mixed JRF, Symph, and Prog Folk) without leaning to much towards any of those. Often those acts would have fit other categories quite well, and quite often I found that our team, the Avant Prog team, and Crossover Prog would be discussing which one it would best fit, which lead to some fun suggestion threads with more discussion than one commonly finds now. If an eclectic Art Rock prog act was more on the pop, mainstream or "alternative rock" side, then often it would be chosen for Crossover Prog, If it was more experimental, weird or out there, then Neo-Prog. Just kidding, Avant-Prog.

I'm not looking to be an honorary member of the club, as I am content in being a retired member of the Eclectic Prog team, but there is a lot that I like in the category. And quite a lot that I don't that is included in Eclectic (mixed bag).

Some of my favourite albums in the category are (I could list many for GG, VdGG and KC and others but I usually only like to list one per band in such things but will go to three for the big names) and there are way more that I could list, but some of my faves included in PA's category...

Jean-Claude Vannier - L'enfant assassin des mouches
Bubu - Anabelas
Haikara - Haikara
Play du Jour - s/t
Kultivator - Kultivator
Jean-Paul Prat - Masal
Ma banlieue flasque - Ma banlieue flasque
Island - Pictures
Gnidrolog - In Spite of Harry's Toe-nail
Peter Hammill - The Silent Corner and the Empty Stage
William D. Drake - Briny Hooves
Carpe Diem - En regardant passer le temps
Jean-Philippe Goude (et Olivier Colé) - Jeunes Années
Gosta Berlings Saga -
Jean-Pierre Alarcen -st
Gentle Giant - Acquiring the Taste, Three Friends, Octopus
Van Der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts, The Least We Can Do..., H to He...
King Crimson - Lizard, Islands, Larks' Tongues in Aspic

And as I am very into Swans, to me that is more of an Eclectic Prog band than a post-rock band. A lot of acts that I like I could describe as eclectic. Whatever people think of the category, clearly some of the acts in it are very respected. Putting things in boxes is handy for classification, it especially can help in finding musically related albums and acts, but eclectic is by its nature a pretty mixed bag. Still there is a certain kind of Art Rock core about it, which especially if one had been working with it in those early days one would likely be very receptive too. I often would think when evaluating music for Eclectic Prog:
a) Is it Prog?
b) Is it Art Rock?
c} Does it cross several subgenres at PA without leaning too heavily towards any of them and what other categories could it fit?

There were other considerations too.

Edited by Logan - May 11 2022 at 12:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 12:08
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

A rumour says that some people don't find the Eclectic sub-genre to be a true, organic one, and that prevents them
from joining the club. 

Another rumour says that the Eclectic sub-genre, being the most eclectic, is the truest, proggiest of all the sub-genres.

And what to believe?  Ermm
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 10:49
^ Don't pay attention to rumors. Their loss if they don't want to join.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 10:44
News update:

A rumour says that some people don't find the Eclectic sub-genre to be a true, organic one, and that prevents them
from joining the club. 






Edited by David_D - May 11 2022 at 10:55
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 08:56
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

I just hope I don't receive a dishonourable discharge from the club for not being a fan of Gentle Giant, King Crimson or Van der Graaf Generator. Wink

no worry Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 08:34
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

There's an awful lot of Eclectic Prog in your blog, but that's much preferable to a lot of awful Eclectic Prog, if you follow my meaning. Tongue

Yes, I can follow your meaning. All members of this club are Honourable. Big smile

I just hope I don't receive a dishonourable discharge from the club for not being a fan of Gentle Giant, King Crimson or Van der Graaf Generator. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 08:28
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Yes, I can follow your meaning. All members of this club are Honourable. Big smile

Whatever I mean by that. Big smile 




Edited by David_D - May 11 2022 at 08:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 08:05
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

There's an awful lot of Eclectic Prog in your blog, but that's much preferable to a lot of awful Eclectic Prog, if you follow my meaning. Tongue

Yes, I can follow your meaning. All members of this club are Honourable. Big smile



Edited by David_D - May 11 2022 at 08:07
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 07:58
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Here's some Adrian Belew lyrics. "Lone Rhinoceros"

nice 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 06:37
Here's some Adrian Belew lyrics. "Lone Rhinoceros"

I'm a lone rhinoceros
there ain't one hell of a lots of us
left in this world

I stand alone in my concrete cell
where people stare and toss me Coke cans
I guess it's better than being poached
but I'd give my horn just to see my homeland

I'm a lone rhinoceros
there ain't one hell of a lots of us
left in this world

They say I am ugly,
call me a beast
I hear them snicker
when I'm half asleep
Is beauty such a big commodity
I always heard it was only so deep

I'm a lone rhinoceros
there ain't one hell of a lots of us
left in this world

I know the zoos protect my species
they give me food, collect my feces
but I can't help it, I miss the past
I'll never again see my good old mudbath

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 05:42
Well, anyway, a bit of Eclectic lyrics:

VdGG  -  The Undercover Man  (a part of)

Here at the glass - all the usual problems,
All the habitual farce.
You ask, in uncertain voice, what you should do
As if there were a choice
But to carry on miming the song
And hope that it all works out right.
Tonight it all seems so strange - my spirit feels rigid,
My body deranged;
Still that's only from one point of view
And we can't have illusion between me and you,
My constant friend, ever close at hand -
You and the undercover man.
(from the album Godbluff (1975))
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 04:21
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Anyway, it can be noticed that this club is still quite exclusive, and I miss some more friends of The Big Three,
and other Eclectic bands. Tongue
There's an awful lot of Eclectic Prog in your blog, but that's much preferable to a lot of awful Eclectic Prog, if you follow my meaning. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2022 at 03:58

Anyway, it can be noticed that this club is still quite exclusive, and I miss some more friends of The Big Three,
and other Eclectic bands. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 04:34
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


Concerning the history of using the term "Eclectic Prog", when I wrote my Prog defining article in 2010, discussed on PA at that time and including description of "the main sub-genres", the term "Eclectic Prog" was quite sure already in use as a sub-genre on PA:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72615&FID=58

I believe the split in Art Rock on PA occurred in 2007. I could be wrong.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 03:54

Concerning the history of using the term "Eclectic Prog", when I wrote my Prog defining article in 2010, discussed on PA at that time and including description of "the main sub-genres", the term "Eclectic Prog" was quite sure already in use as a sub-genre on PA:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=72615&FID=58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 10 2022 at 01:08
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

It's an epic tale of war & romance, suffice to say Art Rock needed an updating and was divided into Ec, Cros, and Hev , none of which actually existed at that point .

"Existing" is a tricky question, as things can exist without anybody being aware of it. By that, I don't argue that what the term "Eclectic Prog" refers to did exist in the 70's. I just leave it as a possibility.



Edited by David_D - May 10 2022 at 05:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 09 2022 at 12:48

Members list update:

The members list of Eclectic Prog Friends' Exclusive Club:

The present members are (in the chronological order of joining EPFEC):

David, Paul, Grumpy, Wizdkidd, Nogbad, Someone and Progrocco

The Honourable Members are (in the order of the degree of The Big Three appreciation):

Nogbad, Progrocco, Someone and David 

Additionally, following members have been appointed as Honourable:

Paul - for being one of the first three members to join, for appreciation of albums by two of The Three Big, 
and for being able to make not least than an A-Z list of Eclectic Prog artist appreciation
Grumpy - for being one of the first three members to join, for appreciation of albums by two of The Three Big, 
and for appreciation of very large number of GG albums
Wizdkidd - for being one of the very first members to join, and for appreciation of very large number of KC 
and GG albums

Besides that, Nogbad has been appointed as The Most Honourable Member for the very largest appreciation of 
The Big Three albums - actually an incredibly large number of each band.


Edited by David_D - May 09 2022 at 12:52
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