Roger Waters~Animals Reissue...Issue

Catcher10 wrote: In the world of rock guitarists, David Gilmour is one of the most highly regarded musicians, that is undeniable. Possibly in the world of music reviewers (prog) he does not rate that high, which is pretty cra-cra.  I suspect if Prog Magazine did a poll (I am sure they have), he would rate pretty high as one of the most respected, gifted guitarists of the past 50yrs.

The Dark Elf wrote: Catcher10 wrote: In the world of rock guitarists, David Gilmour is one of the most highly regarded musicians, that is undeniable. Possibly in the world of music reviewers (prog) he does not rate that high, which is pretty cra-cra.  I suspect if Prog Magazine did a poll (I am sure they have), he would rate pretty high as one of the most respected, gifted guitarists of the past 50yrs. Agreed. Great guitarist with an instantly recognizable style that is often copied but rarely duplicated. It's quite amusing that Waters is still whining about his legacy. Perhaps because it's Gilmour's guitar and voice that is most remembered and revered.  The Wall? Most folks ignore Water's tedious courtroom antics at the end of the album and focus on Gilmour's solo on "Comfortably Numb". Animals? It's all about "Dogs" or the wicked guitar work on "Pigs" and "Sheep" (throw in Richard Wright's keyboards). WYWH? Again, it's Gilmour on "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" or the heartbreakingly beautiful "Wish You Were Here". Meddle? It's the interplay between Gilmour and Wright on "Echoes", not Water's dull "St. Tropez" (that I skip when listening). The Final Cut was the end for a large majority of Floyd fans because of the annoying talk-singing banter of Waters throughout what is basically a solo album reliving the whole "My Daddy's Dead" schtick that was played out already on The Wall (in fact, a few songs are from The Wall sessions).

And even with The Final Cut I have read many times how people love Gilmour's guitars on many of the songs.

rogerthat wrote: Dellinger wrote: rogerthat wrote: Dellinger wrote: rogerthat wrote: iluvmarillion wrote: Well OK, after reading the Mark Blake liner notes I can't see what Dave Gilmour is objecting to. Mystifying to me. Well, it might be because Gilmour has an ego too even if it's not nearly as big as Waters'.  He does not want the plain truth that Animals was largely a Waters project to be advertised in the sleeve notes of a re-issue of the album.  As far as the concept is concerned, indeed, it's all Waters, and that's what the liner notes are focusing a lot about. Yet, it fails to dig a bit deeper into the writing of the music... and as I understand it, Dogs was mostly written by Gilmour... and given the length of that song, and how it is usually the fan favourite of the album, he might, in a way, be right to have an issue given the way those liner notes focus almost exclusivley on Waters. No, then you have not really read the liner notes carefully.  Waters does mention You've Got to Be Crazy was co-written by him and Gilmour.  And that is the fact. What other role did the others have anyway in the album?  Like I said, if they hate so much to acknowledge his role in this album and The Wall, they don't have to play it, they don't have to reissue the albums.  Ah, but how can that be, these albums are full of fan favourites.   Nobody is denying that Waters is a gigantic prick.  I am just saying Gilmour isn't exactly St Gilmour either and doesn't come out looking good from this episode. I did read the liner notes... well, carefully enough at least. But I did say that those liner notes focus almost exclusively in Waters, not totally. And yeah, he did mention Dogs was co-written with Gilmour, but that's just about it, and then it goes on about Waters and Waters and Waters again, as if writing the music for the longest and arguably most beloved song on the album was a minor thing. But what is Waters to do if the idea for the cover art did come from him?  I would also point out that you are trying to overweight Gilmour's role by dismissing the other two tracks.  Essentially, two thirds of the album was written solely by Waters and Dogs was a co-write.  So it is almost exclusively a Waters project.  WYWH was the last all-hands-on-deck effort.  One can blame Waters himself for the fact that the albums after WYWH were Waters-dominated.  I would, for one.  I think what simply happened is he had his own album-length concepts that he essentially wanted to record with the help of Floyd (and it was less to do with a sudden dearth of creativity from the rest).   But be that as it may, Animals-Wall-TFC are very largely Waters-driven projects.  Again, if it bothers Gilmour so much, he doesn't have to play anything from Animals or Wall.  But he can't re-invent reality so that it placates his ego. This episode comes across a bit like, "OK, since Waters wants to be the egoistic prick that he is, I will show him my ego too".   And what happened in the process?  He, that is, Gilmour, held up the re-release and denied it to fans all because of his squabble with Waters over liner notes.  I get it loud and clear that you are firmly in the Gilmour camp but you can't argue your way out of the reality that in this instance, Gilmour prioritized his ego tussle with Waters over the fans and that is not a good look. If he didn't like the liner notes, he need not have approved the draft.  He could have simply rejected it and gone ahead or gone to the public and told them Waters stubbornly insists on his own self-glorifying liner notes.  He has not done either.  He has a big part of the blame in this whole episode.

Well, yeah, the cover is cool, and it's good it's mentioned, yet, I care more for the music. And I'm not trying to dismiss the other two tracks, I love them (just as I love Welcome to the Machine, Brain Damage / Eclipse, Set the controls for the Heart of the Sun - specially live - and many other Waters songs), and not in vain Animals is among my favourite albums ever, but then, my favourite on this one is still Dogs, and for polls I have seen about the album before (one of them recently, if I remember well), the clear favourite of fans is Dogs (just as the clear favourite of fans on The Wall is Comfortabley Numb), and then you might got for number of songs, and yes, it's one out of three, but if we consider the length of it, it's the longest one by far. And I'm not trying to take away from Waters, it is obvious he was the driving force, and the one pushing the concept (just as he had done at least since Dark Side), but it's more that I don't agree when Gilmour's contributions are dismissed from that album... and even if he doesn't have writing credits, we shouldn't forget Wright's contributions either.
     On the other hand, I don't think Waters is much to blame about the other's decrease on contributions for album... as I understand it, it's the other way around, and he rather complained that they were not contributing much, and rather went on to release solo albums instead of using their ideas for the band. And about Gilmour not having to play anything from those 3 albums, he actually doesn't, except for his own songs from The Wall (or Another Brick on Pink Floyd shows).
     About Gilmour's fault at the re-issue not being released... well, to begin with, I didn't even know it was to be done so, nor do I think I care much, since I already have it and don't plan on buying it again, unless it had some unreleased material... best if it were live tracks from the tour for the album... and then I would much rather have a live album, or even better, video from that tour (I don't hold my breath, though). And there's a lot of blame going to Gilmour for the reissue taking so long to be released, but then, if Waters had only agreed to leave those liner notes out from the beginning, it would be out already.
     And about me being on the Gilmour camp... yeah, it might be so, I do tend to side with Gilmour on the debates... but I'm more of the idea that the very best was done when they were all working together, and it is obvious the music wouldn't have come out nearly as great without Waters (though the same is true if Waters had been by himself). And I do love what Waters has done, both within the band and solo.

SteveG wrote: As far as the reissue topic, Floyd are going gaga on reissues. Most fans have heard boots of the bonus materials already. I'm not interested in another copy of Animals.

SteveG wrote: The Dark Elf wrote: SteveG wrote: Wow. 3 or 4 times over? They should send you the new edition as a gift. Well, think about it. I've bought Floyd albums in the original vinyl, 8-track (in 2 cases), cassette, CD and remasters. I'm done now, thanks. Yes, but that's because you're old.

SteveG wrote: Wow. 3 or 4 times over? They should send you the new edition as a gift.

Well, it never hurts to try.

Wow. 3 or 4 times over? They should send you the new edition as a gift.

Edited by SteveG - June 09 2021 at 10:19

As far as the reissue topic, Floyd are going gaga on reissues. Most fans have heard boots of the bonus materials already. I'm not interested in another copy of Animals.

Edited by SteveG - June 09 2021 at 09:54

f**k. I wish I could play guitar like Gilmour.