The Atheist Thread

First off, here's a place to post about atheism, what are some good atheist books, why all atheists are going to hell, what a totalitarian dictator that God guy really is. Anything having to do with atheism. Just keep it civil (more civil than what I've said already). Let's see if we can keep it all in good fun and good taste, and get the fundamentalist christians and the fundamentalist atheists laughing together at the same jokes.

Have fun.



My following argument rests on two assumptions
1) God is something higher than humans, supernatural, all-seeing and all powerful being that for all intents and purposes, is alive (all else I would say is not defined by the term God)
2) Human beings have free will

Here is my argument against God. Assuming that humans have free will, which I assume you all agree with me that we do, there can be no God. God is supernatural, can see the past, knows the future, and can do anything. If God knows everything that happens in the future, then no matter what you say or think, every action of yours is predetermined. The same goes for God. He (sorry feminists) may be able to do anything, but he has no choice whether he does it or not. He knows it will happen, and there's nothing he can do to stop that.

What this means is that God has limits, which means that God is not supernatural. Thus, the whole concept of a supernatural God is an oxymoron.

The way I see it, there are three ways to categorize beings. Those with free will and no limits (supernatural - as we've shown, cannot exist) are "higher" than those with free will but with limits (like animals, which age and die, and such things, but have free will), which are in turn higher than those without free will (like trees and mushrooms, which do not choose how they grow, but simply do so as genetically coded responses to different external stimulae).

Now, if there is a "higher" God, this God must have free will but have limits, and humans must lack free will. Now, there is an argument to be made that all human actions are a result of genetically coded responses to external stimulae, and that, therefore, two identical humans with the same genetic code, placed in two identical worlds designed to give them exactly the same response for any action, will live exactly the same life. However, this is virtually untestable, so we will never know.

Also, let me put it this way. If humans and other animals lack free will, than any higher being does not fall under the laws of nature as we know them, and so is just as unlikely as an all-powerful God.

That is why I believe that there is no God, even though I am a practicing Jew. I am Jewish because I was brought up that way, and was thus brought up feeling a connection to Jews around the world (in a way that simply doesn't happen between Christians - not to be offensive, but it's the truth, Christians kill Christians all the time, but Jews rarely kill Jews). Judaism is more than a religion, it is a culture and a way of life, certain aspects of which I find more ethical than much of the modern society I belong to. The Torah (five books of moses, part of the Old Testament - but not all of it) is flawed in many places (and scientific studies have shown that each of the five books was written by a different person... must be five gods then ), especially the stoning to death parts and the women are either unimportant, raped, or evil (women are almost never mentioned unless they do something bad or are raped, it's true, sadly) parts, and I feel little connection to it. I feel a connection to the sense of community that binds the Jewish people. Did you know, for instance, that the sabbath (shabbat in hebrew) in Israel is extended so that it overlaps with Shabbat in EVERY other part of the world, and that all Jews who go to services read from the exact same part of the Torah as other Jews every week? That's connection for you.

Well, I'm done rambling. I'm a Jewish atheist, how about you. Also, my favorite religious joke, by Kurt Vonnegut, pokes fun of Judaism, and it's simply classic (see, I can laugh at Judaism in good taste).

It goes along these lines. "I have always pitied Jews, having to go through life with only half a bible."

How do YOU feel about atheism? 


EDIT: Snow Dog and Sean Trane, that was a joke... because seem people (Richard Dawkins for one) treat their atheism with the respect and care religious people treat their religion

Edited by inpraiseoffolly - January 17 2007 at 17:31