The Atheist Thread

This supposed god can not be observed in any way; so yes, as sleeper said, it's just irrelevant to anything that goes on in real life.

sleeper wrote: toolsofthetrade wrote: sleeper wrote: As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.      You sound more like an agnostic then By what, having no belief in Dieties (sp?), I thought that was the point of Atheism, lack of belief.To state that one doesnt believe in God is to make a theological statment just like saying that you  believe in God.

You say `i neither believe that god exists or that he doesn't exist'. That's a purely agnostic statement, not an atheistic one.
    

toolsofthetrade wrote: sleeper wrote: As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.      You sound more like an agnostic then

By what, having no belief in Dieties (sp?), I thought that was the point of Atheism, lack of belief.

To state that one doesnt believe in God is to make a theological statment just like saying that you  believe in God.

As an atheist I neither believ that God exists or that he doesnt exist, nor do I waste my time thinking about it, its irelavent to me.

My following argument rests on two assumptions
1) God is something higher than humans, supernatural, all-seeing and all powerful being that for all intents and purposes, is alive (all else I would say is not defined by the term God)
2) Human beings have free will

Here is my argument against God. Assuming that humans have free will, which I assume you all agree with me that we do, there can be no God. God is supernatural, can see the past, knows the future, and can do anything. If God knows everything that happens in the future, then no matter what you say or think, every action of yours is predetermined. The same goes for God. He (sorry feminists) may be able to do anything, but he has no choice whether he does it or not. He knows it will happen, and there's nothing he can do to stop that.

What this means is that God has limits, which means that God is not supernatural. Thus, the whole concept of a supernatural God is an oxymoron.

The definition of supernatural doesn't contain any notion of being unlimited. I think you mean ``omnipotence, in which case, yes, it is more logical to assume god isn't omnipotent (the whole can god create a rock too heavy for him to lift thing). The whole concept of a supernatural god ISN'T an oxymoron, and neither is the concept of an omnipotent god - the former is contained within the concept of god itself (god must be supernatural to be god), and the latter is likely to be false, given our understanding of human logic.



Here's the thing - your belief that humans have free will contradicts the traditional CONCEPT of god (omnipotent, omniscient, etc), but does nothing to bring the existence of god into question - it's more disputing the various attributes of such a deity than offering an argument for it's non-existence, which, leads me on to the whole
unfalsifiable issue of god's existence, in that essentially god can never be proven to not exist, although it can never really be considered a valid scientific theory. All attempts to challenge the possibility of a deity of some sort are futile in my book - you simply cannot prove that god doesn't exist, the idea will always persist. which is why i'm agnostic.

"This atheist is not opposed to the idea of a deity/creator, but there is no chance of it happening.

And if there was one, he would destroy his "oeuvre" just seeing those speaking in his name"

Hi Sean!

Could you please develop that?

IMHO, we shouldn't take into consideration any religion's teaching's.. no person's sayings or writings can even get close to the essence of God... in addition to this, the church, any church, is more a commercial enterprise and a man's creation - not a divine one - and so it is doomed to fail..

so, now that we separated church from God, let me tell you about my "theory":

the way i see it and given that there is no real (and by real i mean conceivable) proof of the existence of God, all that ever a man did was to deify and exalt some things he couldn't understand: rain, fire, nature, death... everything that was beyond human understanding was God.. or, to put it otherwise everything a man ever feared of was automatically God... that is the fear that the church has always been exploiting to attract believers...

in conclusion, whoever is an atheist is sth absolutely natural, or shall i say rational since it's really naive, precultural and primitive to just put your questions for existence and your fears on a pedestal...

so, primarily, i'm with you...

but, if you think about it, just because you don't understand sth or can't explain it, doesn't mean it's not true... on the other side, there's not much you can do about it cause that's the brain nature gave to you...

so, if you think about it, what do all of the above make you? that's right, an agnostic..that's what i am...

The way I see it you can live with hope or you can live without hope.

The point of "f**k religion" is for it not to be considered or talked about!

Atheism is not a religion, I'm an atheistic atheist, been this way since I was 12. The Gadfly by L. Voynich is an amazing book deaing with the subject that I highly recommend.

Edited by The Miracle - December 27 2006 at 21:15