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fusionfreak 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 23 2007 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 1317 |
 Posted: February 17 2014 at 11:22 |
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One of my favourite bands:IM Der Garten Pharaos,Aguirre,Das Hoelied Salomos,Ensjager und Siebenjager are on top of my list and I'm eager to listen to Affenstunde I ordered 3 days ago.
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I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world
of searchers with the help from crimson king |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: February 16 2014 at 12:19 |
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Will listen to it when I get home.
Toddler, I have never really "compared" these folks and what they do. I just know inside and can feel it, that they have a connection to something else, that is not a lyric or Ayn Rand, or something else so pretentious to convince you that it is worth while to buy and make them famous.
I have not had a chance to check McLaughlin properly, as what he does has been very nice, but never really "clicked" with me. Maybe it was the early work, that didn't click, because some of the stuff he does now and improvisations are very fine indeed.
Mystic work, is NOT invisible. It is all a matter of that person "channeling" it well enough, but there is an issue with it, as there was with a lot of the channeling that was around in the New Age days a few years back. There are just as many hacks as there are good ones, and the problem is ... how do you know the difference. Some of them speak a good game, but say absolutely nothing, but they have a good song that is number one and sell a book that did get to number one, and YOU BELIEVE he's right and I'm not! (so to speak!)
That's an issue with advertising, and one's ability to "know" their inner self, and the main reason why I did not like Marshall McLuhan in the early days when he confused people with the media is the message, and it meant the message was meaningless ... and WE BELIEVED IT, because it sold. The media has its own message, but is NOT the message of the artist and NEVER will be, and this is where we get into issues here. I do not think that people understand this difference. PA is great, and very good for each of these musicians, but PA is not the music! We forget that, and neither is the media. Thus the media is not, in most cases the message, otherwise, why would you need a band? Or a book? Or a Play? Or a Priest? Or the media?
All it tells you is how much the control of the masses has developed. 500 years ago, all this individualistic thinking was considered anti-social and anti-establishment and totally pagan and hedonistic and evil. Today, we, AT LEAST, know how these words were distorted and hurt.
Edited by moshkito - February 16 2014 at 12:22 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie 
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: February 16 2014 at 07:27 |
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Some new information and possibilty to listen and to see something new
fragments from film "Kailash" about travel of Florian and Frank Fiedler to Tibet with Popol Vuh music: Full film SEI Still http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6km-c4VFTNg with Popol Vuh music Long interview with Fichelscher - much new information about Florian and Popol Vuh |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: September 04 2013 at 12:41 |
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Hi,
About the "unknown" and such.
Many many many many many many books on the subject. Carlos Castaneda has described it best as "unknown" and "unknowable" ... but these might not be a good desctiption of them. Things like the various Bardo's and Books of the Dead (of which PV is one, by the way!).
Comparing all these with John Lilly (Center of the Cyclone), Robert Monroe (Journey series is very good!), Carlos in the later stages of his work, as the early work is too weird and strange, Saint Germain literature, and many other mystics over the hundreds of years from Crowley to Fortune to many others ... up to and including the Bardo's and the Books of the Dead ... all of these discuss the "unknown" and the "unknowable", in one form or another.
The problem is, social conditioning that doesn't like to see this in the public ... and thus the stories that have changed what you feel inside ... and SEE ... to something that you are told is the truth! Thus, many of the "God" stories, are nowhere near the ability possible for you to find out ... what it means to you! As such, your ability to know what the "father and I" are ... is impossible ... you are too far removed, with no teachers. And way too many clever folks to confuse you silly ... which is what the media does to you!
The truth/trick, in the end, is that there are no teachers, and you have to learn to do all this alone ... and all of the stories are about people that did it alone and no one understood what they said. Well, you could say that the media made a point of saying that they did not like someone they did not understand, either!
Now you have to make a call, if the innner self interests you ... and if you want/need to expose it within an art form that is satisfying to you. You see this a lot in Daevid Allen, Florian Fricke, Frank Perry, and a handful of other folks out there ... and when you compare the work they do, to the "commercial music" (as Vangelis says), you will find that ... there is a lot of vacuous stuff out there ... and you do not need lyrics to even tell you that ... thus, you know why I dismiss so much music ... progressive or not ... because, as Dean says ... it's just pop music!
But there is a lot of other stuff out there that is NOT just pop music! And there are a lot of folks that see something else in music ... and it ain't a lyric or some hit song!
To me, many of the "progressive" things that made the whole shtick well known, was not pop music ... but the media would not want you to know that they were wrong all along and that Tangerine Dream did not sound like washing machine music! (famous line from the early days to give you an idea!) Edited by moshkito - September 07 2013 at 15:35 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: September 03 2013 at 14:02 |
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That was from the poem, not mine, btw.
Before, I found that "music" could also do this, I was a much more avid reader and student of the inner thing, and I have NEVER LOST that light, dark, or sense. And I hope I never lose it, because it is the only "light" that keeps me alive ... not even the music, the art or a loved one ... And I went "looking" for this information, because I could hear some music inside me, that I have NOT YET FOUND ... and I have come to know by "feel" what it is, and what it tells me. This is the reason why the majority of "popular" and "fanboy" or "fangirl" stuff does not faze me at all, and I some folks here get upset that I am trashing their own livelihood ... well, yes ... but more than that ... I am making a suggestion that one could learn far more ... way more ... from more depth, and less advertising! However, many folks here, expect to get the Cliff Notes version of ... "experience" ... and this is another issue altogether. My article is from a teaching/acting/experiential format, that most folks here can not relate to, but instead of seeing that, it is an immediate threat to their idealism. I have no ideas ... I just have a resonable idea of what it is I am seeing, and the rest is useless and will be gone down the toilet tomorrow, or the next day! ....
IT'S NOT DARK for everyone! IT IS DARK, for those that associate that "unknown" as something that is wrong and that we are not to learn or see, or find out from! And that has been the source of most religions to try and gain control over most people by telling them what to do, and make themselves bigger than you or I or anyone else can see or do! Start thinking of it as the "light" ... or ask the Dalai Lama, if you have any questions!
They are not totally wrong, but let's say that the translations are horrendous, and many folks would rather put me down, instead of looking at the translations themselves ... that is a voice that is not likely to ever be able to enjoy, appreciate and live the spiritual life of many of the things that we can see and discuss here, and which "improvisation" is ALSO a part in meditation! IF you don't remember that, you will get to the end of the road and have to get rid of the box that gets rid of the boxes ... and you are stuck, as Peter Nelson would say!
I also like to joke that the semantics are the boxes, by the way, because they are the worst way to show you ... what really took place!
Thanks. I can not say they are "teachings" ... I can say they are the truest and most important things and feelings I know ... and I always feel the need to share them ... but if some folks can not find the pearls amidst the swill for everyone else ... I won't blame them, I won't throw any stones ... but they will live a rather sad, empty life inside ... and hope that they favorite metal, or progressive helps them for a few years! Edited by moshkito - September 03 2013 at 14:03 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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TODDLER
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: August 28 2009 Location: Vineland, N.J. Status: Offline Points: 3126 |
Posted: September 01 2013 at 18:44 |
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This is all very interesting to me. I've read your posts several times. You have a lot to offer and I appreciate the teachings.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 17162 |
Posted: September 01 2013 at 18:28 |
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I recall Eberhard Schoener's Video Magic album that had Sumner & Summers on it being pretty good, but I haven't heard it in ages. I believe it has never had a proper CD reissue.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: September 01 2013 at 13:01 |
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Fabulous ... absolutely fabulous and then some.
Listening to the movement
in the stillness. Listening to the sound in the stillness. This leads to the experience of what vibration itself truly is. FF And, to me, this is what "music" is all about ... and it is not about "progressive" or "rock'n'roll" or "classical" ... and in the end, we do not know .. what "real music" is, and this is what I have been talking about when it comes to the "improvisation" thread ... in the arts ... what it leads to, is the discovery of your inner vibration ... which can help you define yourself in ANY art that you apply yourself to.
The deeper one does that, the more spiritual it all becomes.
The interesting thing in this article is Eberhard Schoenner getting some credit, when his music stopped being electronic altogether as time went on ... and his electronic excursions were far more interesting and better than his other musics. "Trance-Formation" is a must album for everyone that not only likes some music with "spirit" but also define how well one can blend different kinds of music and experiences. Andy Summers and Gregorian Chants is a fabulous combination, even if he would never do this again!
I wish that PA could add this article to the links on the interview with Florian that is on file here ... it would help create a much better and more solid archive. Like the wife would not know as much, if not more! Edited by moshkito - September 01 2013 at 13:04 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: August 28 2013 at 08:53 |
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Interview by Bettina Waldthausen, the widow of Florian Ficke.
She opens some detailes of his biography - story of Moog buying, dramatic change of style in the 90s and why some material isn't published or remastered - simply there's no money for it |
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: May 27 2013 at 12:36 |
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I don't think that Affenstunde was meaningless. Florian Fricke had the formal music education and it's obvious that he is developing the piece of music. And don't forget there was the first Ash Ra Tempel album before 7 Up and all that Leary staff. And the second track on this album is quite atmospheric compostion. Truely I couldn't be sure if Eno heard Affenstunde or Ash Ra Tempel or Zeit by Tangerine Dream, but I'm sure that the idea of ambient was in the air in that times. The difference is German accent of krautrock and English accent of Eno. I'm not dumb sure and insisting - anyway, I was glad to read your thoughts on this matter. I could also add that later Eno was much interesed in what other musicians doing. I saw him live in Moscow back in 2005 and he played a kind of ethnic metal with Rashied Taha and... Steve Hillage  Before it in the second half of the 80s he closely worked with Russian rock musicians here. Truely he only published one or two albums on his label, but there were much interaction and I think that Brian is an open minded person.
Edited by Sergey Lenkov - May 27 2013 at 12:49 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: May 26 2013 at 12:24 |
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I am not sure that Eno cared what others did, because he himself is not musically taught, or studied ... and we would be intimating that his ability to tune in (he said on EM that he was pitch perfect) was not there, and we know it was, or he would not have been able to play with rock musicians like he did! He had to have at least, some rudimentary and basic music knowledge ... !!! But it is obvious from the way he speaks and describes what he is trying to do, that if there is one thing he can do is dis-associate himself from the "melody" of the standard music definition (all music is "melody" kind of thing!), and create something else that also works within the music. This was VASTLY different than what the Germans were doing, and you can hear Timothy Leary say a few words about it on 7-UP ... and in many ways, it made it look like Klaus Schulze, was merely playing around with the knobs, which might have been the case, but there also was a very well defined young man that KNEW music fairly well ... and the folks in CAN were not dummies ... when they had instructors whose names were in the who's who of experimental music in the 20th century that we -- here -- are scared poop-less to even consider, or discuss! All of those folks were all "anti", most western concepts of music, thus a lot of things were created that were different, and some of it ended up being called "krautrock", but others went in different directions ... to the point that CAN ended up making fun of disco ... but then you see what's his name say ... "not repetitive enough" ... and it makes you wonder what these "professors" were getting at? ... I don't think it was disco! It should also be mentioned that the theater tradition during that time in Germany was highly experimental, and even one of its young starts went on to write for Wim Wenders in film ... and his process for lyrics in many of his plays was stranger than ruth or fiction ... and you won't believe it ... and it was the greates nightmare for actors on stage ... which might appear interesting to David Bowie (it did!) later. For ENO, I think it was more the chance to get out of London and be around a foreign place and experience a foreign thing for a chance! A different approach to music! Which helped David and Eno create a couple of things! But I think that David was probably more interested in the acting and the very rich theater traditions in German history, than he would have been in anything else, and later he even went on to do Kurt Weill, which no doubt he looked at while there with Eno! ...
Agreed. However this album is less of a representative of anything else but the experiment of what the synthsizer could or might do, which at the time, was not exactly flowing electronics and moody stuff, but mostly anti-music doodling and fooling that was rather meaningless, even when it had a name. I've always thought that it was a good name for the piece, that described a lot of the visual and internal elements of the very book they are named after ... but I seriously doubt that anyone here would ever make that connection ... or have a way to figure out exactly what that meant! It would be the same with the BARDO, portions of which would have us scared out of our underwear quickly before the whole house knows it! ENO's process was a lot less about what the whole sequence of sounds might have felt like, and create a mood, and this might have been his eventual problem with Bryan Ferry ... one wanting to go all over the place with the knobs and sounds, and Bryan saying ... the music has to get tighter! ...
It might be considered that the "ambient" thing started way before that, and even Beaver and Krause had their moments, that Tangerine Dream paid a tribute to in Stratosfear. I think the real problem was ... when is ambient jsut a flip of the knob ... and when is ambient important ... and in this situation, ENO and everyone else, had a strong hand in it. NEU and the early pioneers of the Kraftwerk society and Faust, were already playing around with the knobs ... NEU, is almost exclusively about what that sound does and continue the piece until you are sick of it, but it sounded really stoney and far out, and we liked it, but is probably just a nice garage jam with a little effects added to it ... or just like Brian Jones telling us that The Pipes of Pan were not messed with at all, and neither was the Missa Luba! The Cosmic Couriers were also "ambient" ... in many ways ... but because they are not repetitive, and tended to continue on a theme and feeling a lot more than just being repetitive ... it has a tendency to make folks think that it is just a meandering jam, which it could be, but if so, they certainly are very well tuned to each other, which is not always a very good trait found in "jams" at all, but for a few minutes. When you listen to "Join Inn" and other pieces, there is a nice quiet inner self that is not about "ambient" and who gives a damn about what it is called. It's a magnificent piece of music to use for loving ... but maybe you only want Joni Mitchell to listen to during that moment! The same for the "Cosmic Jokers" album, but it makes me want to question the sensuality of a lot of people here ... who have to have lyrics while enjoying some sex? Or creating a fantasy? WEIRD!
Edited by moshkito - May 26 2013 at 12:28 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: May 26 2013 at 11:16 |
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Brian Eno lived in Berlin for some time while recording with David Bowie and there were much interaction and work with German musicians.
"Affenstunde" was recorded by PV in 1970 before Eno became more or less known. And the idea of ambient is present there. Holger Czukay, Can, NEU!, Konnie Plank - Bowie and Eno appreciated all of them.
Edited by Sergey Lenkov - May 26 2013 at 11:18 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17514 |
Posted: May 25 2013 at 12:18 |
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I'm not sure that Eno is influenced by the Germans, anymore than they are influenced by him. They are both contemporaries, and let's say -- for the sake of semantics -- that Eno was plying with loops and simply figuring out how to make these sound interesting and better (start with "No Pussyfooting" with Robert Fripp), and the Germans were more into the atmospheric side of it, in the first 3 or 4 years, before the whole thing got corrupted with a little fame, and Timothy Leary! The mood and atmorphere of the whole piece was more important for the Germans ... whereas Eno, would not have worried about that while doing it, and then later, he started adding painting and other light shows to help illustrate a process of visualization that was ever changing. Let's say, for words' sakes that Eno was a scientist and that the Germans were artists! Both music's were very fine, regardless!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: May 25 2013 at 00:29 |
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Many openings are waiting for you, but prepare that concept of Popol Vuh sound developed constantly. So if you don't like any album - take the previous or the following one - for sure you'll find something interesting.
I also started with films by Herzog but after that I opened for myself heavy ambient of the first two albums, exquisite ballads from Hosianna, raga rock of Letze Tage, electronic beat of Shepherd's Symphonie... And each reincarnation of Popol Vuh gave me much positive feeliing. And prog rock sound of Gila's album "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" (only PV members including Fricke were on this album). Also check out Kailash video on You Tube with PV's music.
Edited by Sergey Lenkov - May 25 2013 at 00:31 |
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King Only
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2013 Location: Tokyo, Japan Status: Offline Points: 554 |
Posted: May 19 2013 at 14:07 |
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The first time I heard them was when I watched "Aguirre, Wrath Of God", their music created the perfect atmosphere for the opening scene. Great movie. I haven't heard any of their other albums but I'm going to investigate further!
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Rando
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006 Location: Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 472 |
Posted: May 18 2013 at 18:06 |
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The haunting soundtrack to Herzog's Nosferatu was the first time I heard them, and I was hooked. Then I went back to their previous work. Mesmerizing.
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- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: May 18 2013 at 04:08 |
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Truely, Eno was heavy German iflunced, so it's no wonder. Letze Tage - is raga rock album, with more rock elements on it. Hosianna Mantra truely close to chamber music of late 19th century (with the adding of electro guitar)
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: May 14 2013 at 15:09 |
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^ ... Unless you are anything like me who's been predisposed to ambient since the age of 17.
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libertycaps
Forum Groupie 
Joined: November 19 2012 Location: PDX, OR Status: Offline Points: 72 |
Posted: May 14 2013 at 14:45 |
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Really enjoying Aguirre. Will pick up Hoisana Mantra and Letze Tage CDs in the near future.
The more acoustic tracks here remind me of Brian Eno's Ambient 4 especially for some reason.
Have to admit to liking the mellower stuff more and more as i get mellower/older too.
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dynaco THE FISHER Marantz Sansui Nakamichi Line Magnetic Oppo Yamaha Dynavector Sumiko Grado Denon Pioneer Advent Klipsch/Crites
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Sergey Lenkov
Forum Newbie
Joined: September 11 2009 Location: Mother Russia Status: Offline Points: 21 |
Posted: May 12 2013 at 01:47 |
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By the way, there's one more mistake in the article by Gary Bearman.
He wrote about this album: "One can only assume that electronic music guru Klaus Schulze co-producing this
album must have had an effect on why everything sounds a bit twisted". Album was originally released on label by Klaus Schulze Innovative Communication - it's correct information. But in bio of Schulze by KDM, his manager, there is following reference to release of Popol Vuh album: "Alongside our IC productions, WEA released two discs on IC we had nothing to do with, we only agreed to their release: One by the British Francis Monkman, and an old, historic album by Popol Vuh". So it seems that Klaus Schulze really didn't do any sound producing on "Sei Still...", though hе could be credited as producer on original release. Check out iformation twice before believe enything written about PV. Sad that those people who could give us correct information are prefering to stay silent.
Edited by Sergey Lenkov - May 12 2013 at 01:52 |
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Sergey Lenkov wrote: