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Topic ClosedMeshuggah on prog archives???
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Bryan View Drop Down
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Points: 3013 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2005 at 22:08
I love Meshuggah, and I think their more recent works could be considered prog, but I wouldn't have added them to the archives.
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Points: 4986 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2005 at 02:29

    To Mike, now we're talking personal preferences, that is always highly debatteble.

Catch 33 doesn't do anything for me. It is one mush of sound. Erase was although chaotic at times more clear.  But mainly it is a feeling. And that sometimes is difficult to explain or to write down.
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Points: 397 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 21:47
goddammit stop saying trash, its THRASH for god's sake!!!!!!
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 18:36
Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Just listen to their new records (the ones I mentioned above). "More than complex" is of course a subjective attribute, what seems like "more" to me may appear to be just silly to you ... but maybe not.

Yeah, I guess I kinda see what you mean.

But you kinda threw me off with "more than complex."

I just meant that they don't just use odd signatures. They have complex lyrics, recurring themes in the songs, and - and that's again subjective - are quite consistent on their albums and not really predictable.
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Points: 7374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 18:32
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Meshuggah shouldn't be on here. Just because a band is complex doesn't mean they are "prog" or "prog-metal."

Well, too bad for you ... they're more than just complex.

How so?

Please enlighten me!

Just listen to their new records (the ones I mentioned above). "More than complex" is of course a subjective attribute, what seems like "more" to me may appear to be just silly to you ... but maybe not.

Yeah, I guess I kinda see what you mean.

But you kinda threw me off with "more than complex."

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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 18:27
Originally posted by Rune3000 Rune3000 wrote:

Many people can't hear the King Crimson complexity in Tools sound, but they're still Prog

 

Many can't spot the Prog i Mars Volta, but they're still Prog

 

Many can't hear the difference between Trash and complex Prog, but it's still Prog!

What's Trash?
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 18:25

Originally posted by glass house glass house wrote:

  To Mike : imo Catch 33 is a very poor album.  Destroy, Erase, Improve however is one of the more innovative metal albums ever.

Define poor.

It is more daring, and completely different. I'd prefer Catch 33 over Nothing, and Destroy Erase Improve over Chaosphere. But that's only me ...

What's bad about Catch 33?



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Points: 24 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 17:34

Many people can't hear the King Crimson complexity in Tools sound, but they're still Prog

 

Many can't spot the Prog i Mars Volta, but they're still Prog

 

Many can't hear the difference between Trash and complex Prog, but it's still Prog!
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Points: 4986 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 17:15
  To Mike : imo Catch 33 is a very poor album.  Destroy, Erase, Improve however is one of the more innovative metal albums ever.
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 14:59
Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Meshuggah shouldn't be on here. Just because a band is complex doesn't mean they are "prog" or "prog-metal."

Well, too bad for you ... they're more than just complex.

How so?

Please enlighten me!

Just listen to their new records (the ones I mentioned above). "More than complex" is of course a subjective attribute, what seems like "more" to me may appear to be just silly to you ... but maybe not.
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Points: 3839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 14:09

It looks like it may be time for the collaborators to really think about what this site should be.  Should it be an all-encompassing progressive music site?  Or should it be restriced to groups that are specifically of the Prog Rock genre? 

It's a tough debate that seems to be going on in random places throughout the forums.  One argument is that the inclusion of any progressive band, such as Meshuggah, can lead to the unnecessary addition of bands that are related to other bands that are only loosely related to prog rock ("well, so and so should be on the site because they sort of sound like such and such, and such and such sort of sound like this other band who is DEFINITELY prog...). 

However, the inclusion of a more diverse array of progressive bands leads to the inclusion of more people on the site and can promote a growing prog rock community.  People often groan in the forums about how prog isnt popular anymore.  Well, maybe it is, just in a different form, and if you open up your eyes a bit, you can find some really great things.  Also, fans of these 'outsider' prog bands may find this site, and their eyes can be opened to more 'traditional' prog.

 
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Points: 7374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:58
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Meshuggah shouldn't be on here. Just because a band is complex doesn't mean they are "prog" or "prog-metal."

Well, too bad for you ... they're more than just complex.

How so?

Please enlighten me!

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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:52
Originally posted by Arsillus Arsillus wrote:

Meshuggah shouldn't be on here. Just because a band is complex doesn't mean they are "prog" or "prog-metal."

Well, too bad for you ... they're more than just complex.
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Points: 21598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:51
Originally posted by The Miracle The Miracle wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

No offense, but only ignorant people confuse Trash with Thrash.

BTW: Meshuggah compare to Pantera as Dream Theater compare to Metallica ( in terms of complexity).

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference?

"Trash Metal" doesn't exist as a genre. It is just misspelled. Thrash Metal it is, and Thrash means this:

  • give a thrashing to; beat hard
  • convulse: move or stir about violently; "The feverish patient thrashed around in his bed"
  • slam dance: dance the slam dance
  • beat so fast that (the heart's) output starts dropping until (it) does not manage to pump out blood at all
  • move data into and out of core rather than performing useful computation; "The system is thrashing again!"
  • beat the seeds out of a grain
  • a swimming kick used while treading water
  • bat: beat thoroughly in a competition or fight; "We licked the other team on Sunday!"
    www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.1

    •  

    It doesn't have anything to do with garbage.

    Thrash Metal is just a label for Metal bands that play agressively and use complex riffs. If you look at their performance, it looks like they're constantly "thrashing" their instruments.
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    Arsillus View Drop Down
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    Points: 7374     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:49

    Hahaha. This is my EVIL post.

    Arsillus
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    Meshuggah shouldn't be on here. Just because a band is complex doesn't mean they are "prog" or "prog-metal."

     



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    Manunkind View Drop Down
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    Points: 2373     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:42

    I wonder... Meshuggah are obviously progressive, but so are some brutal death metal bands, like Morbid Angel, Cryptopsy, Suffocation or Gorguts. IMO they're not prog, though. I love all of those bands but I wouldn't want to see them in the archives - they have just too little in common with most of the bands here. I feel we should have at least some sort of common denominator for the inclusion of bands into the archives, or else the site risks losing focus. 

    This doesn't mean I'm going to bitch about Meshuggah in every thread devoted to them, though.  
    "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun
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    The Miracle View Drop Down
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    Points: 28427     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:42
    Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

    No offense, but only ignorant people confuse Trash with Thrash.

    BTW: Meshuggah compare to Pantera as Dream Theater compare to Metallica ( in terms of complexity).

    Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference?
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    Points: 27802     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:33
    I am glad Meshuggah is now in the archive.I have been a fan of this band from their first album and have watched this band progress from a death.thrash metal band to a prog metal sound.I think they ventured into prog metal territory with Nothing,and actually made it with the brilliant ep I(love it)and Catch 33.If Cynic and Opeth are in this archive Meshuggah should be too.BTW,has anyone ever heard of a Scandinavian band called Mnemic?They are in the same vein as Meshuggah.Very good band,check em out.


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    Bj-1 View Drop Down
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    Points: 31644     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:32
    Catch 33 is progressive if you listen to the whole album without stopping. It's basically one 47-minute progressive song divided in 13 parts. "I" is also progressive. The earlier period (91-98) is not that progressive but it still have some prog elements.  
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    Points: 21598     		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:20

    Originally posted by Logos Logos wrote:

    "Nothing" is pure prog-metal.

    No, it isn't, Catch 33 is much more pure. Nothing's great, though. I read an interview with them and they said that Nothing was a bit of a work in progress ...
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