Old Prog Beats New Prog in Song Sample Plays

I keep trying to come up with a reply 88melter, since I have a couple of years on you, but I still don't get the point.  Yes, all "progressive" bands will be judged by that which came before.  That is why certain works (TAAB, CTTE, etc. etc.) frequently end up as the most appreciated albums on this site.  That however does not diminish whatever is going on currently, which I'll admit I am not only remotely in touch with, save for Tool and Mars Volta and others who are carrying on the tradition. 

I have ulcerated, and dry eyes (due to allergies) and poor vision even with glasses, so I have difficulty reading sometimes (without glasses I could not read here even with the font size preferences made big in my browser, so I sympathise.  What screen resolution settings do you use?  My eyes have affected my work since I help students with their theses, and spend a lot of time proofreading and editing -- particularly in the summer).  Conversely to you, italics makes it harder for me to read.  What really can present  a problem to me is lengthy sections of block-text.

Here are some useful links about RIO (hopefully skimming over them won't put too much strain on the eyes): http://www.ccutler.com/ccutler/bands/group03.shtml#rio

http://www.squidco.com/rer/RIO.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_in_Opposition

http://progressive.homestead.com/RIO.html

And of course PA's RIO/ Avant page: --> RIO/Avant-Prog

Obviously it had a socialist element, and was in opposition to the constraints of commercial rock and rock genre expectations.  While the movement was short-lived with few core bands, many other later bands have been strongly influenced by it, and by the music of RIO bands -- see modern bands such as Volapuk, 5UU's, Thinking Plague, Rational Diet, Ahvak, Yugen, U Totem, Guapo....  I tend to prefer chamber rock to symphonic rock.  Even in academic music I'm commonly drawn more to chamber music -- though Beethoven's 9th can't be beat for me.  Aranis is a minorly rock chamber band that I've been really into.  For some RIO has become synonymous with avant prog (and chamber prog is important to look into).

I might recommend U Totem (not that new, the debut came out in 1990) since it has symph elements, and many find Thinking Plague's In Extremis accessible -- I prefer A History of Madness.

Chamber rock is well-worth researching (if your eyes will allow it) and checking out.  For a core band's album that may appeal to those into symphonic, and should be accessible, try Samla Mammas Manna's Maltid (note that the album pre-dates the movement by years).  And like it or not, I feel that any progger should be somewhat familiar with Henry Cow.  Sorry if that this wasn't a very helpful response, but I'm multi-tasking and dealing with the kids which equals lack of focus.

EDIT: There aren't a great many modern symph bands that I really like, but some that made a strong impression on me, and spring readily to mind, are MALDOROR, which is very good methinks,  KOTEBEL, particularly for Omphalos (check out the Official website CLICK), my complaint is that it's too busy at times and feels less than organic; rather articifical in construction.  I also like KARDA ESTRA considerably, and

DELUGE GRANDER.

I think there is a lot of great modern "progressive" rock, and every Prog decade has many "masterpieces" from many different styles under the Prog umbrella.  Incidentally, two bands that really got my interest as a kid in the 70's were Focus and Gryphon.... Followed by Yes and others.  Many of my musical interests have waned over the years, but I still love Gryphon and Focus.  And not many years ago it was King Crimson and Gentle Giant that got me back into Prog in a big way, then Magma, Robert Wyatt and others really solidified my interest....


Edited by Logan - January 22 2009 at 12:56

I read the replies with some difficulty. I type more accurately when I can see what I am writing.

   Yes, I am indeed saying that old PROG is better than new PROG. I would go so far as to say that old PROG IS PROG and new PROG is something else.

   So, I am asking for info on the Rock in Opposition movement so I can get more info on newer music.

   As for opinions, we all have them, but the more informed an opinion is, the more weight it carries. I am asking those whose opinions differ from mine to give me more infomation, so I may broaden my base of knowledge, and make my informed opinions more so.

I appreciate a good wisecrack as much as the next person, just give me your thoughts as well as the jokes.

88melter 

88melter wrote: I use a larger, bolder font because my vision is not the best, and I don't like using glasses at the computer.

I suggest that the quality of symphonic prog be measured according to the criteria of XIX c. and XX c. symphonic classical music.

 

Edited by Visitor13 - January 21 2009 at 16:28

Let's keep the thread on track. If you don't get the point the original poster is making, simply ask politely for him to expand upon it.

We don't understant what he meant, probably because it's his birthday today, he got drunk while partying, got home, wrote this post and then crashed !  loll

Eh?

Thanks, Henry. 

Yep, I'd think most of it has to do with those being well-known, and that doesn't make those better.  As for using symphonic prog as the yardstick for all prog, one cannot deny the importance and impact of classic symph bands to Prog music, and while some might say that Symph Prog as a genre best epitomises Prog, bands such as Genesis and Yes do not, for me, represent a Prog pinnacle, and I see a problem with too mnay bands trying to imitate or are too heavily influenced by, the sound.  For me, Prog is, in part, about drawing on a wide range of music influences outside rock, and expanding the parameters of rock.  It's also about experimentation for me.  When Prog limits itself, and looks too much to one subset, it becomes less innovative/ rock genre expansive.  I actually have a problem with too many bands trying to sound/ be Prog rather than having a progressive attitude.

For me the Rock in Opposition movement best laid out as principles what Prog should and can aspire to.

I think we need to continue to expand our ideas of what Prog is, what it should be, and what it can be.... And I hope that many more artists will push the boundaries of what rock can be, and expand on the rock lexicon.  By judging Prog by the symph style ones, we limit and hinder ourselves too much, and hinder the progression of music, and risk too much emphasis on revisionism rather than inventiveness and expansion.

Popularity breeds popularity, and many look to retro-bands, as well as those that they modelled themselves on or are indebted to, because it's comfortable in its knownness.  It's more accessible.  Classic symph had significant commercial appeal.


Edited by Logan - January 21 2009 at 13:39

Logan wrote: ^ Thanks.  I don't get the emails as the email address I gave has been defunct since not long after I joined.  The email addy may still exist in some fashion, but I haven't been able to access it in years.