American Idol--the dumbing down of music

darkshade wrote: NO you know what's dumbed down this culture as far as music is concerned? way more than American Idol could dream of doing. MTV VH1 disco the Disney Channel myspace facebook the 80's the 90's ignorant people who think jazz is slow, elevator music, and/or dead! CENSORSHIP the grunge movement (not necessarily the bands) modern FM radio record companies the last 2 presidents and company loss of rights in the last few years Frank Zappa's death Rolling Stone magazine Spin magazine media in general reality tv smooth jazz (aka jazz-fusion lite) teen kids choice awards all those retro 60's rock bands that came out earlier in the decade theres a million more but i cant think of them right now...

forget Idol... you got the main culprit there...  corporate owned FM rock music stations... what a wasteland of the same songs from the same groups.

prog-chick wrote: ok, but I still don't see it as "It is a major contributor to the dumbing down of the culture" not even in the slightest,  not one jot. It's great fun telly. That's all.

Jimbo wrote: You could ease your tone a bit... I'm not easily offended, but discussing things would be a lot more pleasant if you just stuck to the topic without resorting to irrelevancies.

in the words of War

"Why can't we be friends? why cant we be friends?"


Edited by darkshade - April 22 2008 at 18:13

Squonkman wrote: prog-chick wrote:   American Idol is not to blame for the ills of society.     thanks for misstating my posts.....again.

prog-chick wrote: Squonkman wrote:   "valued musical entertainment"? valued by who? what value does it have? Other than seeing some decent songs hacked to pieces by talentless wannabes seeking their quick fix 15 minutes of fame instead of working hard the old fashioned way, what "value" does it have?   and why is critiquing AI "frightening"? No, what's frightening is that people watch  the slow insurmountable drain of cultural value and standards with the insipid vacuousness of shows like this, combined with moronic hip hop, most of which has rendered true rock and roll now a "niche" genre in today's society, as we witness rich suburban white kids dress, speak and act like they are from the "hood" in a lame attempt to become "black" which they never will, and don't even understand why they will never "get it". That is what's frightening, and every post condoning this slow death of American culture contributes to the vast cultural "entertainment tonight" wasteland.   It's valued by the millions that watch it, by the millions spent on it, and by those who it inspires. Not all these kids are talentless, thats pretty much  a harsh sweeping statement. It's frightening because it says that your opinion / taste is better than others. The culture of USA and UK (and almost everyother nation s changing, it's changing for many many reasons, I don't like the change in our society but t's neat and tidy to put it at the feet of one tv show, the reasons are bigger even than AI .   Some people like vacuous tv at the end of the day, it helps them switch off from their stressful lives. It has no great harm, it's the lack of balance that can be harmful. Like about twice a year I might eat a BK, if I lived on it everyday it would be harmful I'm sure, but now and again is ok. BUT, if I did live on it 24/7 would that be BK's fault??? BK? i assume you mean the BK Lounge?   American Idol is not to blame for the ills of society. George Bush N' Friends is though.

Edited by darkshade - April 22 2008 at 17:58

Squonkman wrote: darkshade wrote: Squonkman wrote: How many future progressive rock fans do you think AI is helping to create?   well, based on this site and my own region, and just by looking around on myspace and reading articles, progressive music is definitely liked more by young people than in the last 25-30 years. believe me. also it's interesting to note how many different kinds of people listen to Frank Zappa's music. from prog lovers, to jazz critics, to people who like strange music, to normal music listening people, etc...   I am not sure what point you are trying to make. are you claiming that progressive rock albums of today outsell prog back in the 70s? In other words, take away the sales of the 70s stuff by people who are buying it now, and compare sales of prog groups that have been created in the last 10-15 years and compare it to sales of prog btw 1968-1978. Are you serious?

no. prog today does NOT outsell prog of the 70s. i never referred to sales.

all i said is that young people of this time like progressive music more than young people did in the first half of this decade, in the 90's and DEFINITELY in the 80's. and im not necessarily referring to prog rock either. (progressive jazz, electronica, jazz-fusion, world music, etc...) dont forget, too, that a lot of young people download music (legally and illegally) so you cant really compare sales anyway.

but by going on myspace (for example) and checking out how many of the younger generation have bands that experiment, fusing jazz and rock and prog rock of the 70's and now, funk, jam bands and noticing what a lot of their influences are, it's easy to see that the younger generation take a liking to more interesting music these days. and it's easy to see why. in the 80's it was almost taboo to like anything interesting if it wasnt mainstream. this mind-set carried into the 90's and a little into the 2000's. but as the generation born in the 80's gets older and realizes that there was a lot of good music coming out before they were born and no one told them about it because the media tried to push it away, they say "hey that music was good! why get rid of it. y'know what, im going to try to bring that mind-set back"

and it seems to be going alright so far. within a few more years i see great things happening in progressive music. there are people that are fed up. and it makes sense in this time of things getting f**ked up by REALLY BAD people in power.

darkshade wrote: Squonkman wrote: How many future progressive rock fans do you think AI is helping to create?   well, based on this site and my own region, and just by looking around on myspace and reading articles, progressive music is definitely liked more by young people than in the last 25-30 years. believe me. also it's interesting to note how many different kinds of people listen to Frank Zappa's music. from prog lovers, to jazz critics, to people who like strange music, to normal music listening people, etc...

Edited by Squonkman - April 22 2008 at 17:48

Atavachron wrote: Squonkman wrote: Jimbo wrote: Besides, I fail to see the relevance of american idol in progressive rock. It's highly unlikely that the 12-year old girl who listens to Carrie Underwood would otherwise be jamming to Frank Zappa or Soft Machine.     Another person who simply doesn't get it. No one is saying that  a 12 year old girl listening to Carrie Underwood would otherwise be jamming to Zappa or Soft Machine.   What I AM saying, if you would actual READ carefully, is that the likelihood of that 12 year old who has been bludgeoned over the head with the Disney marketing machine, American Idol idiocy, and dopey nonmusical hip hop and whatever else modern corporate commercialism is trying to foist on the masses will EVER later jam to Zappa and Soft Machine etc is virtually nil, and decreases with every broadcast of that moronicy. Get it? How many future progressive rock fans do you think AI is helping to create?   It sure would help if people improved their reading comprehension skills instead of just knee jerking the first wise ass response that comes to them. you really should not be posting on a music forum if you're going to conduct yourself like this; you assume people haven't read posts thoroughly instead of the possibility that they simply have equally well-considered thoughts on what you've said.. consider all points of view and show some civility

Squonkman wrote: Jimbo wrote: Besides, I fail to see the relevance of american idol in progressive rock. It's highly unlikely that the 12-year old girl who listens to Carrie Underwood would otherwise be jamming to Frank Zappa or Soft Machine.     Another person who simply doesn't get it. No one is saying that  a 12 year old girl listening to Carrie Underwood would otherwise be jamming to Zappa or Soft Machine.   What I AM saying, if you would actual READ carefully, is that the likelihood of that 12 year old who has been bludgeoned over the head with the Disney marketing machine, American Idol idiocy, and dopey nonmusical hip hop and whatever else modern corporate commercialism is trying to foist on the masses will EVER later jam to Zappa and Soft Machine etc is virtually nil, and decreases with every broadcast of that moronicy. Get it? How many future progressive rock fans do you think AI is helping to create?

why don't you read this carefully and read this carefully..   I don't think you know that answer any more than anyone... and putting down others opinions or taking such a tone, as if you really have a clue only makes you look like a pompous ass...

spoken by one who grew up...as many here did... in the era of corporate rock..  dopey image-laden musically bereft groups .. that we loved completely and totally.  It was fun to listen to.  Who the hell are you to say that they won't, wake up and smell the coffee brother.. people's preferences grow, expand, and often change. 

*another on my scoreboard for hidden posts but someone has to say it*