Why do we let our leaders lie to us?

Empathy wrote: "My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!" - Kodos

You sure it wasnt Kang?

Peter wrote:                                                               UPWARD!                                                   _                                         _                                  _                    and... onward...

Post of the Year!

                                                              UPWARD!

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                                        _

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                   and...

onward...

Edited by Peter

Andrea Cortese wrote: I like very much western countries! I'm very happy and lucky to live here! I'm very happy and lucky that my country (recently, though) went out of poverty! I disagree with people that always criticize and stigmatize west. I'm proud to be of christian faith and christian tradition. There are not only bad things to point out! As you can see, I go often upstream!  P.S. let point out the positive things! I believe there are lots of positive things in our history, even in our present!

So do I.

But dont fall into 'their' trap. 'They' want you to be philosophical and upbeat about what you do have, preferably to a point where you are unable to see any bad. Being grateful for what you have is not a reason to ignore certain critical things in our society which should be a lot better!!

Empathy wrote: the _real_ message of Jesus Christ (if he existed) was a glimmer of hope for humankind. But we all know how THAT story ended.

As Matt Johnson of The The would say:

"If the real Jesus Christ were to stand up today,
He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA"

...and just to keep this off-topic digression going for the sake of another one of my favotite The The quotes:

"The lights that burn the brightest behind stained glass,
Will cast the darkest shadows upon the human heart"

Edited by Jim Garten

Peter wrote: sleeper wrote: Peter wrote: Syzygy wrote: Communism never succeded largely because it was always imposed as the result either of a violent uprising or following invasion and occupation by a more powerful state - basically, by military force. Why the USA thinks that democracy (more specifically, a consumer capitalist friendly oligarchy) can be successfully imposed by military force is mystifying, and why the British government goes along with this is even more so. Mystifying? Perhaps -- unless they're only there to secure "their" oil supply. (Oh what a cynic am I!)   Just to play devil's advocate here, Syzygy, what about the examples of (West) Germany and Japan? Didn't the US arguably "successfully impose democracy via military force" there? Technically speaking Germany already was a democracy, and what difference did the Americans make to the Japanese administration? Besides, in this case both Japan and Germany attacked the allies in an attempt to expand their empire/reich. Technically, yes -- but not effectively. A huge one -- from miltary rule/monarchy to a constitutional democracy. (Note that I don't support the US/British presence in Iraq on that basis. I believe it's all about oil over there, in any case.) But enough, for me -- I don't usually like to talk politics, etc here.

On this note we agree, and I believe that Germanys democracy was as effective as any other western countries at the time that the Nazi's were voted in, but I doubt it afterwords.

The real problem : Stupidity is the basic building block of the universe.

F Zappa

Syzygy wrote: Communism never succeded largely because it was always imposed as the result either of a violent uprising or following invasion and occupation by a more powerful state - basically, by military force. Why the USA thinks that democracy (more specifically, a consumer capitalist friendly oligarchy) can be successfully imposed by military force is mystifying, and why the British government goes along with this is even more so.

Mystifying? Perhaps -- unless they're only there to secure "their" oil supply.

(Oh what a cynic am I!)

 

Just to play devil's advocate here, Syzygy, what about the examples of (West) Germany and Japan?

Didn't the US arguably "successfully impose democracy via military force" there?

Sigh, it doesn't matter anymore. From what I've been hearing, the U.S. will lose so much power in the coming years due to outsourcing, and Americans won't know how to handle it. ever since our inception, we've been on top. Will that last forever? One could argue it's the best country for the richer of civilians to live in, but at what price?

I was just reading the paper today, and there was and editorial about Guantanimo Bay, and the disgusting acts committed there. I wouldn't mind it as much if they were proven terrorists, but so far I've yet to see one shred of evidence. If there is any, our leaders have know idea how to handle it. They never come out with evidence for anything! They always just say, "We have evidence. Trust us," or they'll say "We can't do it for national security reasons." We have no security! We are as vulnerable as a newborn child, and they know it.

Democracy's a work in progress, that's for sure. Maybe that's why the U.S. is so hot to spread it elsewhere... to see if anyone else can pull it off better.