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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 04:27
Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

I found it to study the culture of the day more than a study of Prog. His hypothesis dealt with middle-class kids merging the classical music learned at school and church and the 60's psychedelia exploding from London and the USA. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle. I'd like to see an update from Macan with the burgeoning underground prog revolution. The internet prog era...   

 

Concur totally on this and on getting an update.  I thought he did identify the social areas in the Untied States that received prog in the 70's, and still to this day keep prog alive.  Midwest towns like in PA, Ohio, and yes Kansas and Missouri as the Northeast and the urban areas of the West Coast supported prog bands well.

Still with the advent of the internet prog really is branching out and I would like to see his take on that.

Actually, that was the point I felt he left hanging. The Prog era survived mainly on the wallets of the USA kids who embraced the music and allowed bands to flourish and expand on their craft. ELP would never have produced the excessive BSS without US dollars. Their stardom was both the means and the ends of the mega-dollar prog market.

You two make good points - I lived the same situation from Canada until the end of the 80's with urban communities supporting the prog myth.

 

However, please remember that the book dates a bit now ( I think it was released in 97) and the internet progboom had yet to happen. All there was back then was Gibraltar EPR >

An update or another book encompassing the issues he left out?

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 04:17
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by bluetailfly bluetailfly wrote:

Why does the possibility that his book was based on his thesis or that it was published by Oxford University Press make you suspicious?

I'm not getting where your coming from on that one...



I suppose the structure it is written - I see a lot of PhD theses structured like this from both the arts and sciences. He is making a number of 'academic' points as a basis of supporting a thesis and Rocking The Classics does have  a central thesis. And curiosity as to why  OUP  would publish this - not their usual area and I don't think they have returned to publishing the more academic books in the field of rock music- if they have, please let me know. But as I said it is a suspicion, and hence an indirect invitation to discuss. BTW why shouldn't somebody study and write a masters or Phd on this subject?

Clearly Macan's text and Bill Martin's Looking Into The Future were first written as essays or as a thesis. The argumentative tone of the book is a good hint for this, but it is not a big problem. Never tedious reading, it can be a bit tough on non-English spaeking mother tongues.

 

 

Erik wrote:
I hope to follow with a review too very soon!

 


Me Three!!! But I'll have to leaf through it because the memory of it is now 8 years old. But I had rather strong opinions on it.



Edited by Sean Trane
let's just stay above the moral melee
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Dan Bobrowski View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 20:19
Originally posted by Garion81 Garion81 wrote:

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

I found it to study the culture of the day more than a study of Prog. His hypothesis dealt with middle-class kids merging the classical music learned at school and church and the 60's psychedelia exploding from London and the USA. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle. I'd like to see an update from Macan with the burgeoning underground prog revolution. The internet prog era...   

 

Concur totally on this and on getting an update.  I thought he did identify the social areas in the Untied States that received prog in the 70's, and still to this day keep prog alive.  Midwest towns like in PA, Ohio, and yes Kansas and Missouri as the Northeast and the urban areas of the West Coast supported prog bands well.

Still with the advent of the internet prog really is branching out and I would like to see his take on that.

Actually, that was the point I felt he left hanging. The Prog era survived mainly on the wallets of the USA kids who embraced the music and allowed bands to flourish and expand on their craft. ELP would never have produced the excessive BSS without US dollars. Their stardom was both the means and the ends of the mega-dollar prog market.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 19:55

Originally posted by danbo danbo wrote:

I found it to study the culture of the day more than a study of Prog. His hypothesis dealt with middle-class kids merging the classical music learned at school and church and the 60's psychedelia exploding from London and the USA. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle. I'd like to see an update from Macan with the burgeoning underground prog revolution. The internet prog era...   

 

Concur totally on this and on getting an update.  I thought he did identify the social areas in the Untied States that received prog in the 70's, and still to this day keep prog alive.  Midwest towns like in PA, Ohio, and yes Kansas and Missouri as the Northeast and the urban areas of the West Coast supported prog bands well.

Still with the advent of the internet prog really is branching out and I would like to see his take on that.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 19:52
Originally posted by bluetailfly bluetailfly wrote:

Why does the possibility that his book was based on his thesis or that it was published by Oxford University Press make you suspicious?

I'm not getting where your coming from on that one...



I suppose the structure it is written - I see a lot of PhD theses structured like this from both the arts and sciences. He is making a number of 'academic' points as a basis of supporting a thesis and Rocking The Classics does have  a central thesis. And curiosity as to why  OUP  would publish this - not their usual area and I don't think they have returned to publishing the more academic books in the field of rock music- if they have, please let me know. But as I said it is a suspicion, and hence an indirect invitation to discuss. BTW why shouldn't somebody study and write a masters or Phd on this subject?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 18:34
I found it to study the culture of the day more than a study of Prog. His hypothesis dealt with middle-class kids merging the classical music learned at school and church and the 60's psychedelia exploding from London and the USA. It's just a small piece of the overall puzzle. I'd like to see an update from Macan with the burgeoning underground prog revolution. The internet prog era...   
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 17:17
I hope to follow with a review too very soon!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 15:01

Why does the possibility that his book was based on his thesis or that it was published by Oxford University Press make you suspicious?

I'm not getting where your coming from on that one...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 13:38

ROCKING THE CLASSICS: THE ENGLISH PROGRESSIVE ROCK MOVEMENT & THE COUNTERCULTURE

 

I am suspicious that because of both Ed Macan academic background and this book's structure, that it was originally the basis of a masters or even PhD thesis - and indeed the hallowed Oxford University Press, best know for it heavy academic tomes, published it. This is a text setting down  ideas as to why the progressive rock movement developed as it did in its early days in the UK, through the discussion of the music, the musicians who played it and the associated artwork, along with  the more recent developments in the genre (at least to the mid 90's) - Djam Karet are praised. However, the serious prog fans and scholars are recommended to read this with some reservations. 

After an general introduction, Macan sets out to demonstrate his argument about the Englishness of prog rock through analyses of 5 landmark prog albums (by Yes, Genesis, ELP, Floyd, etc). The importance of the the artwork of albums and the theatrical sets at live gigs are rightly dealt with. There are good reviews of the different musical approaches and influences, and why these bands "progressed" rock along. The book finishes with a review of the current state of play in this musical genre. Rocking The Classics is not a comprehensive overview of the subject or a book providing any broad history - but doesn't set out to be like this. Instead the author constrains himself to a handful of specifics. One central thesis suggests progressive rock came about because of certain middle class English institutions,(e.g. the Anglican church and its music) especially in the SE of England! Debatable. British may seem small to a Californian but to a Brit this island is comparatively huge, with significant regional differences at less than 50 miles apart. One could argue Yes's success was more about the Lancastrian upbringing of Jon Anderson. In other words, Macan doesn't get agrip of the relevant British social history here, that should have been employed in developing his thesis, which is used elsewhere for instance made the Syd Barrett biography Lost In The Wood, special.

An irony, especially from my viewpoint as a Brit who grew up during this period, is that the early American contribution is hardly dealt with at all. I would have like to seen something about proto-prog/psychedlic scene that laid down some of the foundations, e.g. Vanilla Fudge (who influenced Nice and ELP, and Jeff Beck and therefore Led Zeppelin), even something about the experimental work of the Electric Prunes. The omission of the Californian band Touch, who influenced Yes, Kansas and probably Genesis, suggests the research was less thorough than it might have been. Here and there, statements are made which annoy, e.g. "Allan Holdsworth is a typical Canterbury guitarist" - which I hold as patent nonsense when there was no such being as typical Canterbury guitarists - Steve Hillage, Kevin Ayers, Phil Miller, Andy Summers, Holdsworth and others are distinctly different from one another.

However, for new comers who have ignored the  media tirade against prog and want to know more, this is a reasonable starting point. Also check out Ed Macan as the amateur prog musician - through his two albums under the band name Hermetic Science, where he shows his love of ELP.

 

3 and half stars.

 

NOTE: Currently availability is limited, therefore try OUP directly:

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/Music/PopularM usic/PopRockPopularCulture/?ci=0195098889&view=usa

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