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Hrychu 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5354 |
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 Posted: June 20 2023 at 04:04 |
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Why does this (discussion) make me
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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14698 |
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Posted: June 20 2023 at 04:01 |
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@suitkees: It has to be admitted though that the discussion about freedom of speech and censorship is very much alive in Europe, too. In many countries movements and parties get into government, or at least attract plenty of votes, by stylising themselves as victims of censorship (which in many cases doesn't mean they were actually censored but rather that strong disagreement was voiced). Very popular in particular is it to say "I say XXX now, and look what a hero I am, as we're actually not allowed to say XXX anymore". Which you then can strangely find all over the place despite the supposed censorship.
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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Posted: June 20 2023 at 03:25 |
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These are quite interesting statements. Regarding the second one ("a great deal of “disinformation”
was proven to be true"), I guess this is more a hunch than based on (statistical) research. (What percentage of what was labelled as "disinformation" was proven not to be that, what percentage was proven exactly to be that; what authority labels something as disinformation and how much of that labelling is merely based on opinion, etc. etc.?) Actually, a lot of disinformation emerges as a hunch taken as a fact. My hunch is that most of what was labelled as disinformation was exactly that (unless it was Trump & co. who labelled it). The first and third statements are - from my very European viewpoint - a typical US American stance, compared to the dominating European take on things (both regarding media and legislation). Now, my hunch is that it is even more a right wing/libertarian stance, than necessarily a general US American stance, but I'll leave that to you, USAns, to dicsuss that amongst you, because - as said - this is just my hunch and not based on facts. That "democracy cannot exist unless there is freedom of speech in
public discourse", and I understand that you mean absolute freedom, is exactly what makes the US democracy so weak and vulnerable. In my opinion, if it means to allow the freedom of deliberately misinforming the public, you are just undermining democracy. In Europe, public discourse is much more regulated than in the US of A, and I'm very glad it is: media and politicians can get trialed before justice or before other regulatory institutions if they are deliberately misleading the public. That, in my view, is an important safeguard for democracy. (Note: in French we would use the word "garde-fou", literally meaning "keep/save from the mad"). What you call "censorship", we call that "regulation". It would be censorship if this regulation would go beyond the legislative and regulatory frameworks. Another point from your posts, regarding the "matrix": you'll have to define what it is to give it some coherent meaning. To me, it is a film trilogy; otherwise it is just like God: it only exists if you believe in it. Edited by suitkees - June 20 2023 at 03:35 |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 22:59 |
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Freedom of speech is great. Freedom of action, not so much. When "freedom lovers" who don't want to "get caught up in the matrix" begin to get caught up in a matrix of their own making, they've lost me. Anarchy is overrated. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 20:24 |
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Debate and questioning are integral to the scientific process. If you can’t question it, don’t call it science. Call it anti-science, call it propaganda, call it indoctrination, call it religion but don’t call it science. At the beginning of the pandemic the narrative was that covid originated from a bat. Scientists that didn’t toe the line were targeted. Their careers were literally on the line for doing their job; science. Doctors couldn’t treat patients to the best of their abilities for fear of losing their livelihoods. There were several repurposed drugs that showed effectiveness. One drug in particular, Ivermectin, was demonized along with any doctor that wanted to prescribe it. A drug that exhibited 60-80% efficacy and is less toxic than Tylenol! The censorship that was enacted on so called “disinformation” is a direct threat to democracy. Ironically, a great deal of “disinformation” was proven to be true. Democracy cannot exist unless there is freedom of speech in public discourse! I like what you quoted: "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy What do you think of junior running for president? For me, that’s one democrat I’ll back 100%. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. see’s past the matrix. Exactly, Cosmic Vibration. Science hypothesis/theories should always be opened to debate. Einstein's "General Theory of Relativity" questioned and replaced aspects of Isaac Newton's 200 year-old established theory of gravity. I agree with everything you said. If Robert F. Kennedy Jr. runs for President... I'd vote for him over anyone else in the field. That said, I imagine the Democrat Party sabotages Kennedy they way they sabotaged Bernie in 2016. 
[/QUOTE] I think some within the Democratic party will consider all forms of sabotage, including the unthinkable; again.
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 20:17 |
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I don’t agree, I’d be willing to bet that if Bobby was alive today he’d see past the matrix. "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy That quote applicably describes how people can get caught up in the matrix and how they can begin to see through it. You must have noticed how in the last 3 years free speech was suppressed.. and you should consider how dangerous it can be. I’ll say it again.. Democracy cannot exist unless there is freedom of speech in public discourse. You ought to have noticed how science was turning into a religion. And how a charismatic cult leader emerged proclaiming, “I am science” – Pope Fauci Edited by CosmicVibration - June 19 2023 at 20:26 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 14:49 |
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^ Pence and Romney aren't freakin' crazy. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 6339 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 14:46 |
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Cosmic Vibration
[/QUOTE] Debate and questioning are integral to the scientific process. If you can’t question it, don’t call it science. Call it anti-science, call it propaganda, call it indoctrination, call it religion but don’t call it science. At the beginning of the pandemic the narrative was that covid originated from a bat. Scientists that didn’t toe the line were targeted. Their careers were literally on the line for doing their job; science. Doctors couldn’t treat patients to the best of their abilities for fear of losing their livelihoods. There were several repurposed drugs that showed effectiveness. One drug in particular, Ivermectin, was demonized along with any doctor that wanted to prescribe it. A drug that exhibited 60-80% efficacy and is less toxic than Tylenol! The censorship that was enacted on so called “disinformation” is a direct threat to democracy. Ironically, a great deal of “disinformation” was proven to be true. Democracy cannot exist unless there is freedom of speech in public discourse! I like what you quoted: "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy What do you think of junior running for president? For me, that’s one democrat I’ll back 100%. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. see’s past the matrix. Exactly, Cosmic Vibration. Science hypothesis/theories should always be opened to debate. Einstein's "General Theory of Relativity" questioned and replaced aspects of Isaac Newton's 200 year-old established theory of gravity. I agree with everything you said. If Robert F. Kennedy Jr. runs for President... I'd vote for him over anyone else in the field. That said, I imagine the Democrat Party sabotages Kennedy they way they sabotaged Bernie in 2016.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - June 19 2023 at 15:53 |
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17505 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 13:41 |
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Hi,
There was an article somewhere that really spoke a lot about many of these things ... It was about the state of education in all the 50 states in America ... and it looked to me that the best educated, were mostly Democratic, and the least educated? Yep ... you got it! Now you know why some Republicans are getting away with it ... taking advantage of their public and then you get that one guy inventing rules about education and doing the same thing ... and he thinks he is going to run for President!!!! And what is worse? The number of folks that voted for him, and others that might keep him running around an continue with the most uneducated of all rules about anything.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 12:55 |
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^ Unfortunately he appears to be completely out of his mind, but I certainly would listen to what he has to say. I do think Jack & Bobby are probably rolling over in their graves.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: June 19 2023 at 11:08 |
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Debate and questioning are integral to the scientific process. If you can’t question it, don’t call it science. Call it anti-science, call it propaganda, call it indoctrination, call it religion but don’t call it science. At the beginning of the pandemic the narrative was that covid originated from a bat. Scientists that didn’t toe the line were targeted. Their careers were literally on the line for doing their job; science. Doctors couldn’t treat patients to the best of their abilities for fear of losing their livelihoods. There were several repurposed drugs that showed effectiveness. One drug in particular, Ivermectin, was demonized along with any doctor that wanted to prescribe it. A drug that exhibited 60-80% efficacy and is less toxic than Tylenol! The censorship that was enacted on so called “disinformation” is a direct threat to democracy. Ironically, a great deal of “disinformation” was proven to be true. Democracy cannot exist unless there is freedom of speech in public discourse! I like what you quoted: "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy What do you think of junior running for president? For me, that’s one democrat I’ll back 100%. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. see’s past the matrix. |
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Posted: June 13 2023 at 16:53 |
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Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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progaardvark
Collaborator
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50960 |
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Posted: June 13 2023 at 15:51 |
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The Warren thing was questioning Amazon's searching algorithms because a lot of "snake-oil salesmen" and rubbish conspiracy theory books on a particular health subject during the pandemic were appearing high in the results. She is, after all, big on consumer protections, and rightly so. But anyone with half a brain should know by now that Amazon's search algorithms are dreadful. Now that I mentioned what it's about (in vague terms), I suppose an admin should close this topic before the "v"-word rears it's ugly head.
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i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 13 2023 at 11:46 |
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^ That is a weak argument. Democrats anti-science? Yeah I don't think so... and as far as Elizabeth Warren goes, I'm betting her move to have certain books removed in schools was rebuffed, as it should've been. Be clear: Republicans would rather burn the U.S. down than keep losing elections. They are, both their politicians & their voters, a n t i - d e m o c r a t i c. So--- if you want to equivocate Democrats with the Psychotic Fascist Party the GOP has become, you go ahead and do that. Edited by Atavachron - June 13 2023 at 11:47 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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CosmicVibration
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 26 2014 Location: Milky Way Status: Offline Points: 1396 |
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Posted: June 10 2023 at 10:20 |
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I would agree with that a lot of Republicans are sociopathic criminal traitors but not all. I would hope that someday they will pay for their crimes against humanity. I would also have to say the same thing about a lot of Democrats as well. For the past 3 years I feel like I’m living in some kind of matrix. The anti-science, the misinformation, the censorship was and still is mostly perpetrated by the Democratic Party. The Democrats have trampled all over the 1st, 5th and 7th amendment. As far as modern day book burning, this should never happen. Senator Elizabeth Warren, a Democrat, wrote a letter to Amazon CEO to ban certain books she didn’t like. Not that it should matter that she’s a Democrat, but it certainly should matter that she’s a US Senator. Adults should have the right of choice to read or not to read what want. I get that there are a lot of questionable books out there, but who gets to decide which ones should be banned? The decision should be up the individual if they choose to read them or not. The question of which books should be circulated among our school system should be evolving around an ongoing honest debate. |
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Hrychu
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Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5354 |
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Posted: June 09 2023 at 20:23 |
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I'm neither left or right wing. Personally, I don't care. Simple as that.
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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong |
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 09 2023 at 19:05 |
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I apologize for the 'Fascist' remark directed at omphaloskepsis, it was unnecessary. Edited by Atavachron - June 09 2023 at 19:08 |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 09 2023 at 13:09 |
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Well then I spoke too soon-- I should've said the pathetic, anti-human Right Wing movement in this country. At this moment Jack Smith is serving justice, helping the country rise up, and cast off the S I C K A G E N D A of the Right Wing and all their pathetic, misled supporters. You have a nice day, too. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65248 |
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Posted: June 09 2023 at 13:05 |
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^ Sorry, you're right. I should've said extreme Right Wingers, and everyone who voted for Donald J. Trump .
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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Eddy
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Joined: September 22 2004 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 637 |
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Posted: June 09 2023 at 13:02 |
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Hey man there are rebublican Progheads as well. diversity!
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CosmicVibration wrote: