Mahavishnu Orchestra - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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TheLionOfPrague View Drop Down

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Posted: December 03 2015 at 19:27

I like them but I prefer Weather Report and Dixie Dregs..

I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place

Rando

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Posted: December 03 2015 at 18:16

I have fond memories when I first bought Mahavishnu's "Inner Mounting Flame" back in '73 - Along with that album I also bought my first copy of Genesis "Selling England By The Pound." The latter in the Import section- Two masterpieces each with its own virtuoso guitarist! John McLaughlin & Steve Hackett-

- Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats -

Jeffro

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Posted: December 03 2015 at 10:04

Much like early Genesis I am just now discovering Mahavishnu and it blows me away. Birds of Fire is just amazing!

Edited by Jeffro - December 03 2015 at 10:05

Skullhead

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 20:52

When I think of Jazz fusion, I think of some of the Miles albums from the 70's or Stan Getz or Maynard F. doing rockish jazz stuff. Some of it is really good. Mahavishu seems so much more rock or prog rock than that stuff.

Fripp was very fast and frenetic at times, but both KC and Mahavishu had deep structure under all the intense playing.

Slartibartfast View Drop Down

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 15:41

I don't give a rat's ass where they rank around here. For me Apocalypse is one of my top ten prog albums and I hate ranking albums,

Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

aglasshouse View Drop Down

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 15:00

It's hard for me sometimes to listen to them, mostly due to their volcanic intensity, but I do like them under certain moods. Smile

http://fryingpanmedia.com

TradeMark0 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:49

Dayvenkirq wrote:

TradeMark0 wrote:

... , but a better is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.

I don't understand that part.

sorry, it was a mistype.

TeleStrat

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 12:20

Skullhead mentioned The Snow Goose which is a great album.

There is a Camel poll going on now and "Goose" is in third place out of fourteen albums.

LearsFool

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 11:39

^ And Angus is no true Scotsman because he's dissin' Scotch. LOL

dr prog

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 10:16

Lear'sFool wrote:

^ Eh, prog's had better.

Like a lot of fusion albums. Check out Birds of Fire again.

You're no progger if you're dissin this track.

All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.

TeleStrat

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 10:01

Svetonio wrote:

TeleStrat wrote:

(...)

Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.

The most of jazz-rock / fusion is instrumental stuff, but there are also some fantastic jazz-rock / fusion tunes that featured vocals, in various stlyles of the sub-genre; for example Chick Corea's Dear Alice, Return To Forever's What Games Shall We Play Today, Allan Holdsworth's Road Games, Bill Brufford's Adios a la Pasada (Goodbye to the Past), Nick Mason's I'm A Mineralist, Steely Dan's Aja etc, etc.

You are correct. Some of my JRF albums feature vocals even if only on one or two songs.

Skullhead

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 07:29

Svetonio wrote:

TeleStrat wrote:

(...)

Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.

Camel's great work to me is "The Snow Goose". All instrumental, and considered Prog and not fusion.

A lot of KC stuff from the same era was instrumental just like Mahavishnu. KC was also doing lots of improv sounding stuff across structure odd metering. To me, the complexity of the odd metering that MHV put together is even a bit more sophisticated that KC, and certainly rocks harder in general. If the jazz moniker is aimed at too much jazz style showboating.. then didn't ELP also fit that description? Lot's of ELP showboating.

jayem

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 06:51

Skullhead wrote:

I find the music relaxes me.

...Like a ten fingers deep tissue massage !! After their first recordings players would listen to their own music before coming onstage so they feel relaxed in order to deliver their lines....Why not after all !!

This is my suggestion for a rephrased debate: "Is massage music predominated by frantic intensity closer to jazz fusion, or prog rock "...

Edited by jayem - January 17 2015 at 06:53

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Dayvenkirq View Drop Down

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 06:44

TradeMark0 wrote:

... , but a better is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.

I don't understand that part.

Svetonio

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 04:30

TeleStrat wrote:

(...)

Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.

TradeMark0 View Drop Down

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 04:07

IMO, they're better than a lot of the prog giants, but a better question is why isn't Soft Machine considered one of the prog giants.

Edited by TradeMark0 - January 17 2015 at 12:47

Skullhead

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Posted: January 17 2015 at 02:06

I know for many they will view MVO as a chops band with endless showboating etc... but I don't believe that was really the intention with them.

It feels more like the frantic intensity that predominates most of the music works more like a ten finger deep tissue massage. I find the music relaxes me. It doesn't agitate me at all. The compositions are very detailed and well thought out. More complex than traditional jazz, and this lands it square in the prog genre for me.

Using odd meters as much as they do, that is a conscious intent. There is a very complex structure that resembles classical music more than jazz that permeates the underlaying form of Mahavishnu music. Most traditional jazz works around 3 and 4 chord progressions that then are soloed over by the lead instruments.
Mahavishnu is much more structured if you listen closely. It's very experimental music and the true spirit of progressive experimentation is everywhere.

TeleStrat

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Posted: January 14 2015 at 10:51

I've been listening to my MO albums since I started following this thread. I have to say that I prefer a more melodic and flowing sound like Scope, Bonfire, Isotope, Energy or Flying Island.

I don't mind a little bit of free form or spacing out but I do prefer continuity. To my ears Stomu Yamashta is borderline in this regard.

I like violin when it blends in with the overall sound of the music. Stomu albums regularly feature violin and Flying Island has it on every track.

I definitely like Jean-Luc Ponty and also Darryl Way's Wolf.

Hardly any of my J/R/F albums feature vocals and that's fine with me.

rogerthat

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Posted: January 14 2015 at 10:40

That's a different discussion altogether but it was kind of covered in an earlier thread where Dean participated. Possibly the acceptance of varied folk/native styles of singing into British rock/pop gave the singers in that period a very unique character.

Svetonio

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Posted: January 14 2015 at 10:25

rogerthat wrote:

I think the most plausible answer has been given by those who have put it down to the lack of vocals. Even with KC, the more instrument-based albums like LTIA are not what made them so renowned. Rather, it's the, yes, symphonic ITCOTCK with Lake's standout vocals. KC, Yes, ELP, Genesis, PF, JT all have standout vocals in at least some of their albums, whether or not in a good way. Let me further modify that. Distinct vocals AND lyrics in English *cue micky's favourite RPI rant* LOL

. I think Magma has a very formidable legacy too and their musicianship is outstanding. But singing in an imaginary language just won't do when it comes to popularity. What moshkito calls the top 10 mentality. But it can't be helped, really, because rock music essentially is a predominantly American and British based genre with, duh, English lyrics. Sure there are amazing bands from other countries singing in their native language but with most of it being English, most of the fans are going to be conversant in English at the very least, even if it is not their first language.

Exactly.
I would just like to add that Britain had really great singers in the Progressive rock such as Greg Lake, Peter Gabriel, Jon Anderson to name of few, and also in Rock genre there were so many of magnificent singers from Britain; sometimes I'm inclined to think that the grandeur of 70s British rock in general is based primarily on great British singers.