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Joined: November 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Posted: August 28 2009 at 20:05
progkidjoel wrote:
^^Does this do the trick, as far as impressing you goes?
in what sense? It's a rather nice melody (I like Kevin Moore a lot in general) but it doesn't "blow me away" by its technical complexity.
I guess I wasn't clear: as far as "virtuosity" goes, prog keyboards pale in comparison to professional pianists. That's not to say that there isn't some great keyboard work in prog. I just find that when prog keyboards try to "show off," they're rather hard to take seriously - fast playing does not a good keyboardist one make.
like there's that one Rick Wakeman solo video kicking around, and I always see it recommended to "show off Wakeman's incredible playing," and really, if you're impressed by that, well, you're rather impressionable.
bottom line: overhyped prog "virtuosity" does not really impress me. Creativity impresses me. I think Tony Kaye, Rick Wakeman, Patrick Moraz, Kevin Moore, Jordan Rudess etc. all have their wonderful, impressive creative moments, but when they try to "impress" by playing really really really fast, I kinda sigh and tune out.
Joined: November 14 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 66
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:42
J-Man wrote:
What are your thoughts about Tony Kaye? I really think he is a horrible keyboard player, and I have various stories to share as to why, if you're interested. What do you guys think of him?
Prog keyboards don't really blow me away - maybe when I was in high school, but I've seen so many classical pianists play at levels beyond those even considered by prog keyboards that they really have to do something truly spectacular to impress me. A "killer solo" isn't enough.
that being said, I love Tony Kaye's work on "The Yes Album." His dirty organ on "Yours is No Disgrace" is awesome, and his piano work on the rest of the album is nice. I don't think Yes would become much if he stuck around, but for the time he was around, I think he did a good job.
Joined: March 02 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 19643
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:26
Hmmm...
Don't mind Kaye, can't say I'm a fan though. I really can't think of anything at all that sets him apart from any other YES keyboard player, or indeed, any other pianist.
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Posted: August 28 2009 at 19:00
What are your thoughts about Tony Kaye? I really think he is a horrible keyboard player, and I have various stories to share as to why, if you're interested. What do you guys think of him?
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 15:07
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to? I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.
Sound Chaser is maybe the most ferocious track in the Yes catalog - I love the jazzy feel Moraz brings to it, some of Alan White's best drumming, some of Howe's best guitar playing, and the funky riff Squire delivers after "cha-cha-cha" should be able to get anyone grooving. They then contrast that ferocity with something tranquil, very calm and soothing, and yet there is a majestic feel to the end of "To Be Over". In a way, the second side mirrors the first in that there is aggression followed by calm followed by a hopeful spirit.
Truly a masterpiece made only more remarkable by virtue of the fact that it followed one of the most stupendous achievements in progressive rock - something that surely gives testament to Yes being at the summit of classic progressive rock (one can feel free to place the "giant" of their choice, e.g. Genesis alongside if need be).
Now that's a cogent argument for what's going on with side 2. I like it, I'll have to think about it. Thanks Padriac.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: August 28 2009 at 14:55
American Khatru wrote:
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to? I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.
Sound Chaser is maybe the most ferocious track in the Yes catalog - I love the jazzy feel Moraz brings to it, some of Alan White's best drumming, some of Howe's best guitar playing, and the funky riff Squire delivers after "cha-cha-cha" should be able to get anyone grooving. They then contrast that ferocity with something tranquil, very calm and soothing, and yet there is a majestic feel to the end of "To Be Over". In a way, the second side mirrors the first in that there is aggression followed by calm followed by a hopeful spirit.
Truly a masterpiece made only more remarkable by virtue of the fact that it followed one of the most stupendous achievements in progressive rock - something that surely gives testament to Yes being at the summit of classic progressive rock (one can feel free to place the "giant" of their choice, e.g. Genesis alongside if need be).
I enjoyed very much the latest cd from Simon Says "Tartigrade" and the song "Brother where you bound" where the band played a hommage to the Yes's song the Gates of Delirium.
Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66828
Posted: August 28 2009 at 13:18
Gates is one of my least favorite Yes songs. I don't like the sound of the guitar or keyboards on that song. I'm not sure which it is but whichever it is I don't like the sound. That is the nonmusician in me, that I don't even know which instrument it is that is making the sound.
Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 13899
Posted: August 28 2009 at 13:10
For many years, I would only ever play Gates and ignore side two completely. In recent years, I have grown to love the two other tracks ALMOST, but not quite as much. They reward you with patient listening repeatedly.
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Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:41
Padraic wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Not that you need to explain yourself or your tastes but, er, would you care to? I don't say that with any accusation friend, I'm just honestly curious.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:11
I still like side 2, but side one is far superior. On Close to the Edge both sides completely blow me away, but on Relayer it's only side one that does it for me. I would rate side one 9/10 and side two 5/10. Once I get to it, Relayer's getting a 3 from me.
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:06
American Khatru wrote:
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
I'm not one of them - I love side 2 just as much as side 1.
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 10:04
J-Man wrote:
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
-Jeff
Yeah, I'll confess to being with you to an extent on that (notice I said "what many others consider to be..."). It has to be that most posters who shout to the heavens about that record are really talking about Gates, a few are adding Sound Chaser, and I'd really like to know if any are adding To Be Over.
Gates, it goes without saying, is phenominal and powerful. For me, Sound Chaser shocked and thrilled me when I first heard it, and I get a good time out of it sometimes still. It's just to me there's something a little at odds about it, compared to their other material, almost like it were a song by some other band (the Moraz influence could be the explanation). But no problem there - I'm all for interesting artists taking a risk or going off there usual map from time to time. As for To Be Over, I'm still discomforted by the writing and production of it. The best thing I can say is, "it's nice I guess." However, I know that I can hold out through it and get to the latter half, which is epic and excellently done, really great. It recalls and redeems the instrumental opening of the song. It's fair to say (or an understatement) that Over is an "uneven" track.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
Posted: August 28 2009 at 08:58
I actually don't love Relayer as much as many other people do. It's a great album, but far from my favorite. Gates of Delirium is one of my favorite Yes songs, but (sorry) I actually could live without Sound Chaser and To Be Over.
Joined: March 28 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 732
Posted: August 28 2009 at 07:02
Mosis wrote:
American Khatru wrote:
Don't get me wrong please, I like White (though of course not so much as Bruford). Like whoever you like, but there is a difference.
I should clarify: Bruford's drumming only stood out for me on Fragile. Neither Bruford's work on CTTE or The Yes Album stood out more or less than White's work on Relayer. I'm sure there is a difference in their styles, I'm just saying there was nothing outstanding that led me to say "Wow, Bruford's killing White" here or vice versa... except on Fragile, like I said.
Anyway, I guess seasoned Yes fans don't agree. I'm sure my opinion will be ever more refined the more I listen. I was merely stating that at this stage of the game, I can tolerate different keyboard players and drummers, but I can't imagine a Yes without Chris, Steve,and Jon.
Mosis wrote:
Let me further clarify. In general, I don't think the
drums take a very prominent role in the music of Yes. They're just kind
of in the background, doing their thing, with a creative fill or subtle
roll on occasion. Compare this to Rush, for example, where the drums
are in the forefront at all times, driving the music almost like
another melody line. Rush with a different drummer would be a different
band, whereas Yes has maintained its characteristic sound irrespective
of the drummer.
Ah, I understand you better now, you make some very good sense. I do have to say that the move from CttE to TfTO, from Bruford to White, is not some huge polar shifting thing. Sure there are differences and changes, but it's not, as I infer from Mosis, like Yes had to go, "oh man, what do we do here," and tear down their entire sound and go a whole new way. (And of course they, and their label!, wouldn't have wanted to do that anyway; they were successful doing what they were doing.) What this all means is they didn't lose an essential writing partner.
Losing Bruford could easily have been a big blow, instead Yes went on to make only what you might say is THE GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIME !Then lose Wakeman, only to be followed by... what many others consider to be THE (or their) GREATEST RECORD OF ALL TIME ! We should consider more often the implications of that.
Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?
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progkidjoel wrote:
