A to Z of Classic German Prog

Cristi wrote: ^ I'm surprised he didn't put Grobschnitt in his list, but I guess they're classified differently on wikipedia. They even have a German bandname, are they not Krautrock? How can this be? 🤦‍♂️ Overall Novalis is a symphonic prog band. It's the dominant sound that matters not the small influences, doesn't it? Triumvirat are symphonic prog exclusively. Maybe if the OP changes the thread title to 'prog from Germany", I wouldn't object to anything.  Passport is exclusively a JRF band. There are no Krautrock tinges.

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 06 2022 at 06:19

Cristi wrote: Novalis and Triumvirat are symphonic prog.  Passport are JRF.  Neu! is the biggest omission here. http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=675 - their debut album and Neu! 75 are must listen Krautrock.  http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=596 http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=596 http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1592

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 06 2022 at 06:43

^ To be honest, I don't use the PA database much. I find it too limited. I don't like the fact that it doesn't tag albums or use multigenres. That said, I do think that PA is a good guide to Krautrock (really, I'm with this site for the forum and community, not the database). Ideally, I think one would refer to a variety of sources (I complained to Paul about only relaying on Fox news -- lol) or if one is familiar with a category, let your own ears be the judge. I understand your problem with Paul's approach, and I don't really agree with it either, but then I have my own approach which also seems different from yours, which seems to be rather more geared towards judging specific pieces of music b an act and albums rather than judging a band as a whole. I saw your post on judging the prog of individual Led Zeppelin songs and so I know we are not in total disagreement. You have lot of patience with Paul when it comes to these matters. I do find these kinds of discussions do go in circles often rather than lead to a satisfying synthesis of ideas and approaches.

Anyway, I'm glad that this conversation with you got me revisiting some Novalis and Grobscnitt's debut. Hopefully someone else will appreciate the tracks I posted.

^ Well, that list is very, very limited. I agree that overall, based on the albums I know at least, Novalis is a Symphonic Prog band and on you assessment of Triumvirate and Passport. That said, the small influences and details matter to me (and I certainly care about and try to consider individual albums as well as individual tracks). That track I listed I would classify as Krautrock, and I am interested in the microcosm and the macrocosm (I care about individual songs and albums as said) Were I to do a Krautrock list, then I would not include Novalis, Passport, or Triumvirat, and Paul is no expert in the subject matter (nor am I for that matter, but it is one of my very favourite categories in PA and I have a lot of Krautrock albums).

As for Grobschnitt, well, I do consider it to be rather Krautrock in part. Maybe those first few albums could be describe as on the Krautrock side (having Krautrock elements). More Krautrock as I recall than Novalis. I have the debut but been a long time since I last listened to it. I think that album has Krautrock qualities however you want to classify it.

I remember really liking this track (and it is rather trippy as much Krautrock is, but also that albums can be likened to various British "hard rock" acts). Great stuff, I think, whatever you call it.



I'd sooner place Grobschnitt's debut in the Krautrock universe than, say, Rockpommel's Land (RL I'd put in Symph). The devil can be in the details.

Different people do define Krautrock differently, and to some it does just mean German rock to me it is more than that. I see it as a kind of experimental rock often with cosmic, trippy qualities, commonly it involves improvisation, repetition, hypnotic grooves -- often it has psychedelic and space rock qualities. It can be a very very broad category. If just using it to mean German rock, then its not really useful as a genre label I would say. No more than British rock (or as we will call it, Bangers & Mash rock) or Scottish rock (aka Haggis Rock) and Irish Rock (aka, kiss the Blarney Stone - I did that and it tasted rather bad -- I suggest no tongue).

Edited by Logan - April 06 2022 at 05:02

Neu! is essential Krautrock, and along with Can and Kraftwerk (and Harmonia), one of the most influential bands from Germany when it comes to more modern music I like. :) I see Harmonia is not on your list either. And no Popol Vuh, and no Can, and no Amon Dull II above. I realise it's from a to z then a to z again and so on. I do think this topic would be more readable if you just edited in new playlists to older posts (keep Kraan to one post for instance).

As for Novalis, it does rather depend on how on defines Krautrock and again, I feel that bands could commonly be put in various genres (and different albums could have different tags). I find PA's system too limited.

I agree with Novalis placement in PA however, and to me it is merely a Krautrock tinged band (I got into it before I got into Krautrock when I was mostly into Symph).

I could place this, for instance, in the Krautrock universe:



I do agree with how PA places those three bands and in this case I don't particularly want multi-genre tagging, however, but I am one who doesn't think many things fit in a as neat and tidy boxes as some do and that one can take more nuanced views and see different perspectives and I do think that PA's system of putting whole discographies under one genre label is far from ideal (commonly even individual albums could get different labels), but that's a limit of the site architecture. I know I've made these kind of points before and probably come across as a broken record.


Edited by Logan - April 06 2022 at 04:09

Philchem8 wrote: I don't know if these have been mentioned as this is a long thread and I haven't gone through the 19 pages, but some 70s German bands I have been listening to lately are Mythos, BroselMaschine and Neuschwanstein. Mythos is Krautrock, not sure about the other 2. BroselMaschine is more on the folk side of prog. In case some people don't know Neuschwanstein, they were symphonic prog outfit that released a really good album in 1979, Battlement, which almost beat Genesis at its own game. Their sound is like a mix of Peter Gabriel on vocals and the sounds of ATOTT and W&W. But while they sound a lot like Genesis, they don't rip off any riffs or melodies from them and come out with their own distinct style.

Psychedelic Paul wrote: A well-deserved 4 stars for this album, and not just because it has "Psychedelic" in the title.

dr wu23 wrote: I have the first 2 on cd and Nogger on vinyl........the first is still my favorite . Have never heard any of the others.

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - March 30 2022 at 09:35