Wish They Weren't Here - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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avantgrind View Drop Down

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Joined: June 29 2011
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Topic: Wish They Weren't Here
Posted: July 15 2011 at 15:14

Tapfret wrote:

90% of electronic-prog.

The Truth

Collaborator

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Posted: July 15 2011 at 15:11

I started the Dylan suggestion and while I still consider the meat of his work proto-prog I can understand his exclusion from the site. He undoubtedly influenced the prog rock scene but his influence is so deep it'd be like including classical composers as well.

ghost_of_morphy View Drop Down

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Posted: July 15 2011 at 14:48

KarmaMan wrote:

harmonium.ro wrote:

Dylan was suggested already, the answer was "nay".

I'll check that out, if it's still available.

As I suspected, given the Artists already included, the naysayers utterly failed to give compelling reasons for Dylans exclusion.

So it's a legacy thing, mistakes that the team won't erase but don't wish to compound.

Anyway. Thanks for the replies.

Dylan a nay? After his obvious influence on Steve Howe's vocals???

avantgrind View Drop Down

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Posted: July 12 2011 at 09:01

the hordes of scenester bands

dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 09:24

KarmaMan wrote:

harmonium.ro wrote:

Dylan was suggested already, the answer was "nay".

I'll check that out, if it's still available.

As I suspected, given the Artists already included, the naysayers utterly failed to give compelling reasons for Dylans exclusion.

So it's a legacy thing, mistakes that the team won't erase but don't wish to compound.

Anyway. Thanks for the replies.

I'm interested to hear what reasons you see for including Bob, yourself. And I thought Ivan had some good points, so 'utterly failed' might be a bit much.

We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
JazzMusicArchives.

KarmaMan

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 08:03

KarmaMan wrote:

harmonium.ro wrote:

Dylan was suggested already, the answer was "nay".

I'll check that out, if it's still available.

As I suspected, given the Artists already included, the naysayers utterly failed to give compelling reasons for Dylans exclusion.

So it's a legacy thing, mistakes that the team won't erase but don't wish to compound.

Anyway. Thanks for the replies.

Edited by KarmaMan - July 09 2011 at 08:05

KarmaMan

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 06:52

harmonium.ro wrote:

Dylan was suggested already, the answer was "nay".

I'll check that out, if it's still available.

rogerthat

Prog Reviewer

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 06:10

^^^ That is more to do with the misleading nature of the label. Progressive is just too qualitative a word to give the right impression about the music it refers to. I think art rock is a much better word...of course, it is much wider in its scope but I don't really see the problem with that. I don't see why Gentle Giant and Queen cannot both be on the same database, one being more complex and sophisticated than the other doesn't necessarily make it a wholly different type of music. But we are not dealing in semantics here but realities. The reality is that the label progressive has stuck and been widely misused and it's here to stay, for better or worse.

KarmaMan

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 05:03

Eärendil wrote:

KarmaMan wrote:

Eärendil wrote:

richardh wrote:

Nowadays there is very little in my collection that isn't here. Most bands like the ones you mention are only here because a lot of people like them. If Queen or LZ had never been that popular then they wouldn't be here imo.

I agree, but that is one of the purposes of prog-related. Bands who have greatly influenced prog artists.

I look forward (do I?) to Dylans inclusion.

I think that there would be mutiny if he was included LOL

The team obviously realise there's a problem when inclusions are on hold and they declare they won't remove an Artist once included (the implication being that some acts shouldn't really be here). Some accuse others of entertaining too narrow an idea of what progressive means. I know there are many here see who 'prog' as a particular style of music, born in a particular era - they don't actually mean progressive at all. Many prog acts are actually regressive. Dylan in the mid 60's was wholly progressive, but obviously not 'prog'. See what a mess it can all become.

Anyway like I said, boot all the non-'prog' stuff then add certain albums - you know it makes sense.

harmonium.ro View Drop Down

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 04:44

Dylan was suggested already, the answer was "nay".

Earendil

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Posted: July 09 2011 at 00:52

KarmaMan wrote:

Eärendil wrote:

richardh wrote:

I agree, but that is one of the purposes of prog-related. Bands who have greatly influenced prog artists.

I look forward (do I?) to Dylans inclusion.

I think that there would be mutiny if he was included LOL

KarmaMan

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 17:52

Eärendil wrote:

richardh wrote:

I agree, but that is one of the purposes of prog-related. Bands who have greatly influenced prog artists.

I look forward (do I?) to Dylans inclusion.

Earendil

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 16:25

richardh wrote:

I agree, but that is one of the purposes of prog-related. Bands who have greatly influenced prog artists.

Earendil

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 16:23

I immensely prefer that the "prog-related" requirements (and even crossover prog) are more open rather than restrictive.

richardh

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 15:52

earlyprog wrote:

Always struggle to find the prog in bands like Jefferson Airplane, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Metallica (edit: and David Bowie). Can only hope their addition to the site attract people otherwise unknown to prog. If they are here the reasoning behind it should be clear. It's seems that sooner or later every band in my record collection will end up in PA, just because I happen to have it. PA has turned out like this anyway.... so when will Elton John be added?

already been discussed and probbaly will happen

dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 07:43

Aren't our labels for things so very, very precious?

It's interesting that many music fans treat genres as 'uncontested spaces' and spend significant effort contracting and delineating them.

But I'd argue that all genres are hybrid and therefore we should accept that certain albums may fit into more than one genre. Wink

We are men of action. Lies do not become us.
JazzMusicArchives.

rogerthat

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 04:47

Well, I am certainly not able to foresee a day when Aerosmith, Motorhead, AC DC, Slipknot or, on the pop front, Carpenters,Celine Dion etc would be added to the progarchives. The point being that there would always be a clear line between basic, rudimentary rock or pop music on the one hand and sophisticated rock on the other. Drawing a line within the sophisticated rock basket as to what does and does not constitute prog is very subjective. And as long as the policy of not deleting bands once added continues, the push will always be towards inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. And yeah, given the current profile of bands added to different genres in the database, I cannot see a clear and strict demarcation between prog and non-prog (within sophisticated rock) so I personally have no problem with LZ or Metallica's presence. I am not saying you shouldn't, this is just my way of looking at it and we know progheads on the subject of what is prog are like economists - simply can't agree with each other.

earlyprog

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 04:30

Always struggle to find the prog in bands like Jefferson Airplane, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Metallica (edit: and David Bowie). Can only hope their addition to the site attract people otherwise unknown to prog. If they are here the reasoning behind it should be clear. It's seems that sooner or later every band in my record collection will end up in PA, just because I happen to have it. PA has turned out like this anyway.... so when will Elton John be added?

Edited by earlyprog - July 08 2011 at 04:40

richardh

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 01:52

Tapfret wrote:

Peter wrote:

Tapfret, I love the "backside" of the album in your sig! Ha!

Thanks. It is my understanding that the original cover art was submitted with this on the back but was rejected by EMI.

what a pity. Its absolute genius

Tapfret

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Posted: July 08 2011 at 00:45

Peter wrote:

Tapfret, I love the "backside" of the album in your sig! Ha!

Thanks. It is my understanding that the original cover art was submitted with this on the back but was rejected by EMI.

Bandcamp