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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Offensive signature
    Posted: April 14 2006 at 01:40
Really all arguments ceased... this thread is no more useful.
Guigo

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 23:53
Originally posted by Tony R Tony R wrote:

Why is it that as soon as you tell someone "no" they start to throw their toys out of the pram?

What exactly are you trying to do when you write statements like:

"I'd also like to add that my participation on these boards will likely be brief; I get treated a lot better and taken more seriously on the Dextroverse"

I,I me,me....

You'd get taken more serously if you grew up....

Sadly I have to agree after the last post, any chance of imtelligent dialogue is impossible,

When there are no arguments, it's time to insult.

Iván



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 23:10
Dude. Chill the f*ck out. I got rid of the symbol.

Now you're just here to split hairs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 19:59

Originally posted by DeepPhreeze DeepPhreeze wrote:

What about the Confederate flag? The Confederacy is now synonymous with racism, prejudice, and slavery.

If a member were to put that in their signature would you have complained? I mean, it stands for something that you don't believe in. It might offend people. Anything might offend people.

And what about the Nazi flag? I'm sure that a lot of people will feel offended with absolute right, wghere is the limit? Common sense marks it.

So I can't put up a picture of the flying spaghetti monster? It's mocking religion that denounces science, but it's just a satire. You got a beef with that?

What about political cartoons? I could put up 'The Leftersons' and my fellow Liberals would get pissed but they wouldn't ask me to take it down.

The cartoons abou Mahoma were banned, and I absolutely agree, maybe you would find them funny from your anti religious perspective. I find this drawings repulsive and offensoiive.

All prejudice/racism/sensitivity to religious symbols means to me is that people are unsure of themselves and their own beliefs. That's it. That's all I see. To me, you're showing immaturity to the highest degree by telling somebody else that the way they expressed themselves is wrong.

Open the doors, what if we start using anti gay signatures or anti Latin otuives, what about the KKK sytmbols, etc? Where you put the limit?

I didn't damage property, I didn't kill anyone. When it all comes down to it what was my crime?

Not everything has to be a crime to wrong.

All 4,000 members of this forums avoid using religious symbols (NO OTHER MEMER HAS DONE IT UNTIL YOU CAME) for respect to the other members. Why should you change this?

Iván

 

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 19:30
What about the Confederate flag? The Confederacy is now synonymous with racism, prejudice, and slavery.

If a member were to put that in their signature would you have complained? I mean, it stands for something that you don't believe in. It might offend people. Anything might offend people.

So I can't put up a picture of the flying spaghetti monster? It's mocking religion that denounces science, but it's just a satire. You got a beef with that?

What about political cartoons? I could put up 'The Leftersons' and my fellow Liberals would get pissed but they wouldn't ask me to take it down.

All prejudice/racism/sensitivity to religious symbols means to me is that people are unsure of themselves and their own beliefs. That's it. That's all I see. To me, you're showing immaturity to the highest degree by telling somebody else that the way they expressed themselves is wrong.

I didn't damage property, I didn't kill anyone. When it all comes down to it what was my crime?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 18:43

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

One can play etymological, semantics games if one wishes, but the Buddhist symbol often is referred to as a swastika, and I wouldn't call it incorrect as it has entered common parlance and is even in my OED dictionary as such.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika  Anyway, yes I am familiar with the history of the symbol and the orientation of the NAZI swastika.

But you got the crux, that the resemblance to the NAZI symbol may cause unrest.

We agree in that, it's only semantics.

By the way, the pentragram is not just a Satanic symbol as I'm sure you know too.  Though the one that bothered you did have other markings which indicates that it is Satanic.  I'm agnostic and religious symbols do not bother me -- be they whatever.

That's not a Pentagram Logan, it has a figure of a goat inside and it's called Baphomet ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Pentagram _with_one_point_down_% ).

It's been said, but one shouldn't discriminate against any religion here.  If one is to ban the pentagram, even a Satanic one,  one must also ban the cross and other religious symbols.  I'm uncomfortable with the supression of such freedom of expression.

I do my part, never in more than 4,000 posts I have made any propaganda to my religion except when debating about Religion against Atheism with Sean in an interesting and respectful 10 pages debate.

I won't say anything against something that I don't consider offensive, but I will never post any propaganda to my religion.

BTW: I created two more offensie threads, one about a lurker using despective ter,ms against gay people (I'm not gay) and another one about a guy who made racist comments against any coumtry that is not USA (This guy was later banned as a troll).

As a believer in freedom of speech (though it must have its limits of course), I don't think religious discussion should be taboo either. 

Neither do I, had a very long and absolutely respectful debate with Sean about Relligion vs Atheism in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6555&a mp;KW=God&PN=0&TPN=11 but it was in the right lounge where anybody who doesn't want to see uit cant avoid it.

If we poke fun at other's belief systems, I see no problem with that either -- a thick-skin and a sense of humour (self-deprecating particularly) helps one have a happy online life, and life in general, I think.  By the way, we often interpret posts and postal intent differently depending on our disposition (biases and attitude).

I don't agree with that, because what I consifder funny can be offensive for other person, this is a multi cultural forum, and it subsists only becausethere's mutual respect.

Iván

            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 15:33
One can play etymological, semantics games if one wishes, but the Buddhist symbol often is referred to as a swastika, and I wouldn't call it incorrect as it has entered common parlance and is even in my OED dictionary as such.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika  Anyway, yes I am familiar with the history of the symbol and the orientation of the NAZI swastika.

But you got the crux, that the resemblance to the NAZI symbol may cause unrest.

By the way, the pentragram is not just a Satanic symbol as I'm sure you know too.  Though the one that bothered you did have other markings which indicates that it is Satanic.  I'm agnostic and religious symbols do not bother me -- be they whatever.

It's been said, but one shouldn't discriminate against any religion here.  If one is to ban the pentagram, even a Satanic one,  one must also ban the cross and other religious symbols.  I'm uncomfortable with the supression of such freedom of expression.

As a believer in freedom of speech (though it must have its limits of course), I don't think religious discussion should be taboo either.  If we poke fun at other's belief systems, I see no problem with that either -- a thick-skin and a sense of humour (self-deprecating particularly) helps one have a happy online life, and life in general, I think.  By the way, we often interpret posts and postal intent differently depending on our disposition (biases and attitude).




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 14:39

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

A bit anal methinks.

Originally posted by DeepPhreeze DeepPhreeze wrote:

(I used to be a devout Buddhist)


I was very attracted to Buddhism once. I wonder how people would have reacted if we'd used the Buddhist swastika?


First there's no Buddhist Swastika, the Buddhist Gammadion cross (Swastica is a Nazi bast*dization of the Sanscrit term Sauwastika) is oriented towards the left, and the Nazis oriented their infamous swastica towards the right.

Some Maya cultures also used the symbol oriented towards the right, but with other meanings.

But the resemblance is so great, that it may cause problems in some people.

Iván



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 13:02
A bit anal methinks.

Originally posted by DeepPhreeze DeepPhreeze wrote:

(I used to be a devout Buddhist)


I was very attracted to Buddhism once. I wonder how people would have reacted if we'd used the Buddhist swastika?




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 12:39
Originally posted by int_2375 int_2375 wrote:

Originally posted by DeepPhreeze DeepPhreeze wrote:

I'd also like to add that my participation on these boards will likely be brief; I get treated a lot better and taken more seriously on the Dextroverse.

Oh god I couldn't agree more.  So many of the prog fans on the internet are just off their nuts.  You know, they that people are idiots for liking different types of music, stereotype entire genres (hip-hop namely) based on what they see on MTV, etc.  I have rarely met these pretentious, conceded losers on drug-related forums.  Lol, some 3rd/4th plateau DXM trips can really change you for the better.

I don't even know anything about Satanism, but I, unlike some, didn't automatically dismiss it as evil.  It bothers me that people pick and choose what religions are offensive and what are not.  If it was a cross in your sig no one would have said anything.

The difference uis that I don't use the cross as a symbol in my sig to avoid problems, and even when I'm absolutely moderate, I don't even go to mass except when somebody d9ies, there's a Baptism or a wedding.

Not even the Fundamentalist Christians who were self-banned from here used their beliefs as a religion.

Check what this guy says, he placed the symbol to offend and provoike people, that's wrong per se.

BTW: I studied Theology, so I know what Satanism stands for, maybe thet's why  feel offended.

My point with the cross and Baphomet was that its best to respect ALL beliefs, unless their is something seriously inhumane about them, and as far as I know Satanism (or at least some schools of it) doesn't entail that.

Honestly, from now on I won't worry about this, but I just expressed the reaction of another member who protested twice and my own.

Ivan do you get that worked up about bumper stickers or t-shirts you find offensive?  Do you report people when you see that they have a symbol related to Satanism on their t-shirt? 

This is absurd and you know it, don't try to be a smart a$$, street is free there are no rules, but this is a forum with rules, most of us respect them to make of Prog Archives a pleasent place:

Site rule N° 1 says:

Quote 1. No Vulgarity, profanity or bigotry. We ask all members to refrain from using "foul language." Profanity - the deliberate denigration of another person's belief, will not be tolerated. Our membership is global, and thus represents a host of spiritual and religious beliefs. Given this, profanity is tantamount to personal attack (see next entry). Likewise, there is no place in this forum for bigotry (this includes religious bigotry, racism, and sexual discrimination) which are also considered to be personal attacks.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13083& amp; amp; amp;PN=1&FID=3&PR=3

And our Satanist member says his purpose here is:

DeepPhreeze wrote:

Quote We like to shock, annoy, pester, and generally offend those who we feel are 'blind and obedient'.
 

So it's clear, this is in deliberate denigration of other person's beliefs, HE SAID IT, but that's not all:

Quote Our membership is global, and thus represents a host of spiritual and religious beliefs. Given this, profanity is tantamount to personal attack (see next entry). Likewise, there is no place in this forum for bigotry (this includes religious bigotry, racism, and sexual discrimination) which are also considered to be personal attacks.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13083& amp; amp; amp;PN=1&FID=3&PR=3

And this guy said:

DeepPhreeze wrote: 

Quote Let's not forget that everybody has their own right to their own flag, own activities, and own religious (or in my case anti-religious) beliefs
 

This goes against rule N° 1 again, so, he's in fault, not those of us who believe this is wrong, b4eing anti religiopus is clearly an attack against religion.

He can be anti anything, but he's not free to offend and denigrate those who don't share his ant religous convictions.

 I don't know what the laws are in Peru (and I swear, I mean NO disrespect towards your country), but here you couldn't get away with reporting someone for that, because of freedom of speech. 

Clearly you know nothing about Perú, our country is permisive, we're allowed to pray and use symbols of religions in schools or public places with absolute freedom unless they offend other's beliefs.

We have worst problems to worry about here, like as I said before our real problem is what most people is going to eat tomorrow.

Without it we wouldn't have the ability to protect our riights... and I can't see why any intelligent forum would be set on restricting that freedom, and why you, if you truly believe in freedom of speech, would go enforcing censorship of harmless symbols on this forum?

But there are also rules here, if somebody comes to: "shock, annoy, pester, and generally offend those who we feel are 'blind and obedient"  he's attempting against the rules of the site, and even says louudl he's here to offend and perster anybody who he feels is wrong.

This is bigotry, sectarism and attack, I didn't made the rules, but I accept them when I joined the forum.

Iván



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 11:16

Why is it that as soon as you tell someone "no" they start to throw their toys out of the pram?

What exactly are you trying to do when you write statements like:

"I'd also like to add that my participation on these boards will likely be brief; I get treated a lot better and taken more seriously on the Dextroverse"

I,I me,me....

You'd get taken more serously if you grew up....

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 10:28
Okay, so it is pretty a**holish of us to purposely put up our symbol with the intent to scare others, but let's put it in perspective here; Satanism is for people who used to have deep spiritual convictions and beliefs, but were stepped on one too many times.
It pretty much means other people of other religions (or maybe even our own; I used to be a devout Buddhist) took advantage of our good nature and we couldn't take it anymore.
The symbol is hardly revenge; it's more a way of making us feel better about ourselves by giving us the realization that we weren't meant to be understood --- it's kind of funny if you think about it.

And yes, int, you are absolutely awesome three cheers for you
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 03:38

Originally posted by DeepPhreeze DeepPhreeze wrote:

I'd also like to add that my participation on these boards will likely be brief; I get treated a lot better and taken more seriously on the Dextroverse.

Oh god I couldn't agree more.  So many of the prog fans on the internet are just off their nuts.  You know, they that people are idiots for liking different types of music, stereotype entire genres (hip-hop namely) based on what they see on MTV, etc.  I have rarely met these pretentious, conceded losers on drug-related forums.  Lol, some 3rd/4th plateau DXM trips can really change you for the better.

I don't even know anything about Satanism, but I, unlike some, didn't automatically dismiss it as evil.  It bothers me that people pick and choose what religions are offensive and what are not.  If it was a cross in your sig no one would have said anything.

My point with the cross and Baphomet was that its best to respect ALL beliefs, unless their is something seriously inhumane about them, and as far as I know Satanism (or at least some schools of it) doesn't entail that.

Ivan do you get that worked up about bumper stickers or t-shirts you find offensive?  Do you report people when you see that they have a symbol related to Satanism on their t-shirt?  I don't know what the laws are in Peru (and I swear, I mean NO disrespect towards your country), but here you couldn't get away with reporting someone for that, because of freedom of speech.  Without it we wouldn't have the ability to protect our riights... and I can't see why any intelligent forum would be set on restricting that freedom, and why you, if you truly believe in freedom of speech, would go enforcing censorship of harmless symbols on this forum?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 01:04

Well, this site is not only yours, it's for Christians, Catholics, Moslems, Jewish, Atheists and even for people like you, but everybody until you came had the good sense to avoid religious references in their signatures that may offend anybody else.

But again, your purpose is to offend and annoy. YOU SAID IT WITH YOUR OWN WORDS.

Quote:
You made a meaningless symbol offensive. What's next --- telling people not to speak other languages because it promotes cultural differences that might be offensive to a racist?

Have you noticed that I'm a native Spanish speaker?  If I use English here it's because this are the rules the owners created, and maybe being obedient to rules may be a good reason to offend me.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 00:58
Quote They decide who is right and who is wrong, those who they feel are right (probably those who agree with them) deserve respect, but those who they think are wrong deserve to be offended.


No, we put up our symbol on anything that is ours and wait for people like you to make a stink over it.

You fed right into the trap we set. It's a fun game, wouldn't you say?

EDIT: Just to clarify, the joke of the entire Pentagram is that secretly it stands for --- you guessed it --- nothing at all! Bravo . You made a meaningless symbol offensive. What's next --- telling people not to speak other languages because it promotes cultural differences that might be offensive to a racist?


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 00:47

DeepPhreeze wrote:

Quote We like to shock, annoy, pester, and generally offend those who we feel are 'blind and obedient'. It's only because we are the anti-religious anti-righteous Atheist sect. You guys just go to prove that you fear most that which you misunderstand most.

I rest my case, this forum is meant to be peacefull place for RESPECTFUL discussion of ideas. The purpose of this guy is (and I quote): " shock, annoy, pester, and generally offend those who we feel are 'blind and obedient".

And this guy dares to call somebody a fundamentalist???????

They decide who is right and who is wrong, those who they feel are right (probably those who agree with them) deserve respect, but those who they think are wrong deserve to be offended.

I'm not a Moslem, but I wouldn't ever try to offend any person who believes in this religion, it's his God given right. But the author of the signature is clearly saying that he wants to offend those who think different than him

If somebody wants to offend those who don't agree with them, well you know what to  expect.

DeepPhreeze wrote:

Quote BTW Sorry mods, this has nothing to do with you. But hey, Spring Cleaning is just around the corner! Maybe you can get some of the fundamentalists out of here before they wreck the place 

Just in case. I'm anything but Fundamentalist, am the first person to disagree with religious, racist or political fundamentalism.

I've been here for more than two years and never offended anybody you come as a newbie with the explicit and confessed purpose of offending people. 

We come here to relax, not to be annoyed and offended as you pretend.

Iván

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2006 at 00:19
The Church of Satan is one of the most misunderstood churches on earth, and to tell the truth, we like it that way. We like knowing we are the 'black sheep' of the world. We like to shock, annoy, pester, and generally offend those who we feel are 'blind and obedient'. It's only because we are the anti-religious anti-righteous Atheist sect. You guys just go to prove that you fear most that which you misunderstand most.
Try reading up on LaVeyan Satanism --- it's the closest thing to Buddhism without being trampled by these (dare I say) Christian zealots.

And about the DXM part, if you're offended by a little reference to OTC medicine chances are you're unsafe in the real world. Nobody would complain if there was a picture of a cup of coffee, even though (in my eyes) caffeine is the most commonly abused drug known to man.

The only reason I removed the image was because the mod asked nicely and I agreed to play by his rules.

Let's not forget that everybody has their own right to their own flag, own activities, and own religious (or in my case anti-religious) beliefs. Just remember that at a certain point it's best to stop pressuring people to hide away their identities.
You may not have come to terms with who somebody is, but it doesn't mean they can't express themselves.

I have to admit, for an online board for music that is a direct product of the Liberal way of life, there sure are a lot of close-minded people on here when it comes to social values.

I'd also like to add that my participation on these boards will likely be brief; I get treated a lot better and taken more seriously on the Dextroverse.

BTW Sorry mods, this has nothing to do with you. But hey, Spring Cleaning is just around the corner! Maybe you can get some of the fundamentalists out of here before they wreck the place


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 23:17
Originally posted by int_2375 int_2375 wrote:

I'm not the one who had the "coexistence" signature, for your information.

I should had imagined you were incapable of something like that.

I have no idea what "you aren't able to be listened in musical terms" means.  Sorry, I just couldn't interpret your English in this case.  (No offense, I know its not your primary language).

I haven't read any interesting or trascendental contribution from your part to this forum or to Prog Archives.

And BTW: I'm entitled to feel offended by messages against my beliefs, if the Administration and owners agree, well you should accept it and if not, I will have to do the same thing.

I'm merely pointing out how stupid you starting this thread was.  You were so offended by a symbol on the internet that you had to make a thread to report it.  Now THAT'S "as childish as a baby making noise". 

Because this forum is a place where civility and respect almost always is present, but this concepts may be too complex your understanding.

Why should everyone bend over backwards for easily offended persons such as yourself?  Your opinion that it is offensive is irrelevant and represents the minority of this board, based on most of the responses I saw.

You haven't been here enough time, I've read posts asking to ban name of albums because they contain profanities, and I gave my position in disagreement, but never had the "brilliant" idea to choose worst names or lyrics to make mockery of other person's beliefs.

Basically my signature is the same as the Coexistence one, which you complimented, only I used Satanism and Christianity, and suddenly you found it offensive. 

That is a natural contradiction and a silly attempt to attack our beliefs with the excuse of plutrality.

Nobody can love Jesus and Satan at the same time unless he's an idiot, because a person that represents divinity for many and goodness for almost every religion, can't be worshipped with the evil simultaneously. 

Coexistance doesn't say I am Christian, Jewis and Moslem at the same time, it only gives a message using the three religious symbols,

 You are so completely negative about some things I just have to call you on it.  "I don't like this sig, make it gone", "Phil Collins ruined Genesis".

Phil Collins is another issue, this is a musical forum to express musical opinions mainly, not to promote something that will attack personal beliefs of other members.

If somebody doesn't like a band or a musician he's free to do it, but to attackl the basis of ANY religion, is not correct.

You took the bait, hook, line, and sinker when you replied to my signature, showing just how hypocritical you are.

If I ever had problems is because I can't be an hypocrite, if I see something black I say it, the same if it's white, better dedicate to talk about music than to provoke justified reactions of the people.

Iván



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 22:30
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by int_2375 int_2375 wrote:

Good idea.  I made a new sig to promote unity.  Unfortunately your thread does not promote unity.

Never said anything about your signature even when it was an attempt to make a mockery of things some of us believe in. As a fact I said good words about it

Now your reaction is absolutely childish as a baby making noise in a desperate attempt to be heard, espécially when this thread has been closed for more than a week.

But probably because you aren't able to be listened in musical terms you create a contradictory and absolutely moronic statement in your signature.

Ok, if you want to be remembered as the Revolutionary wannabe  idiot go on, it's not my problem any more, I have more important things to worry about in my life and in this forum.

Iván

 

I'm not the one who had the "coexistence" signature, for your information.

I have no idea what "you aren't able to be listened in musical terms" means.  Sorry, I just couldn't interpret your English in this case.  (No offense, I know its not your primary language).

I'm merely pointing out how stupid you starting this thread was.  You were so offended by a symbol on the internet that you had to make a thread to report it.  Now THAT'S "as childish as a baby making noise".  Why should everyone bend over backwards for easily offended persons such as yourself?  Your opinion that it is offensive is irrelevant and represents the minority of this board, based on most of the responses I saw.

Basically my signature is the same as the Coexistence one, which you complimented, only I used Satanism and Christianity, and suddenly you found it offensive.  You are so completely negative about some things I just have to call you on it.  "I don't like this sig, make it gone", "Phil Collins ruined Genesis".

You took the bait, hook, line, and sinker when you replied to my signature, showing just how hypocritical you are.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2006 at 21:14

Originally posted by int_2375 int_2375 wrote:

Good idea.  I made a new sig to promote unity.  Unfortunately your thread does not promote unity.

Never said anything about your signature even when it was an attempt to make a mockery of things some of us believe in. As a fact I said good words about it

Now your reaction is absolutely childish as a baby making noise in a desperate attempt to be heard, espécially when this thread has been closed for more than a week.

But probably because you aren't able to be listened in musical terms you create a contradictory and absolutely moronic statement in your signature.

Ok, if you want to be remembered as the Revolutionary wannabe  idiot go on, it's not my problem any more, I have more important things to worry about in my life and in this forum.

Iván

 

            
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