Prog and Socialism

grandoleopry wrote: "His political views were also made explicit on Matching Mole's Little Red Record, on the cover of which the band members are portrayed in the Socialist Realism style as left wing revolutionaries. Then there's his cover version of Stalin Wasn't Stallin' on Nothing Can Stop Us and his versions of songs by Victor Jara, a Chilean dissident murdered by the Pinochet regime." Stalin wasn't Stallin' eh? Here's a guy who some say was responsible for the deaths of 66 million in his thirty year reign of terror and they call that progressive. How chilling.

Read the lyrics first, then criticise them based on their content as opposed to your suppositions; this was an American response to the part that the Russian army played in the defeat of Adolf Hitler, and also celebrates the participation of American forces.

Stalin Wasn't Stallin' (Bill Johnson)

Stalin wasn't stallin'
when he told the beast of Berlin
that they'd never rest contented
till they had driven him from the land
So he called the Yanks and English
and proceeded to extinguish
the Fuhrer and its vermin
this is how it all began

Now, the Devil, he was reading
in the Good Book one day
how that Lord created Adam
to walk the righteous way
and it made the Devil jealous
he turned green up to his horns
and he swore by things unholy
and he made one of his own

So he packed two suitcases
full of greed and misery
and he caught the Midnight Special
going down to Germany
then he mixed his lies and hatred
with fire and brimstone
then the Devil sat upon it
that's how Adolf was born

Now Adolf got the notion
that he was the master race
and he swore he'd bring New Order
and put mankind in its place !
So he set a scheme in motion
and was winning everywhere
until he up and got the notion
for to kick that Russian bear

Stalin wasn't stallin'
when he told the Beast of Berlin
that they'd never rest contented
till they had driven him from the land
So he called the Yanks and English
and proceeded to extinguish
the Fuhrer and its vermin
this is how it all began

Yes he kicked that noble Russian
but it wasn't very long
before Adolf got suspicious
that he had done something wrong
Cause that bear grabbed the Fuhrer
and gave him an awful fright
seventeen months he scrapped the Fuhrer
tooth and claw, day and night

Then that bear smacked the Fuhrer
with a mighty armored paw
and Adolf broke all records
running backwards towards Krakaw
Then Goebbels sent a message
to the people everywhere
that if they couldn't hit the Fuhrer
Go down hit that Russian bear

Stalin wasn't stallin'
when he told the Beast of Berlin
that they'd never rest contented
till they had driven him from the land
So he called the Yanks and English
and proceeded to extinguish
the Fuhrer and its vermin
this is how it all began

Then this bear called on his buddy
the noble fighting Yank
and they sent the Fuhrer running
with their ships and planes and tanks
Now the Fuhrer's having nightmares
cause the Fuhrer knows damn well
that the Devil's done wrote "Welcome"
on his residence in Hell

grandoleopry wrote: mithrandir wrote: grandoleopry wrote: Elitist, populist. This doesn't sound to socialistic to me. In fact critics hate prog because it does not reflect the us against the man mentality, the haves against the have nots,the the proletariat against the bourgeoisie They felt that rock was first and foremost a political tool for Marxist Ideal isms and that prog led people away from all the inequality and the injustice. This is why punk was praised as reviving the spirit of rock. The early prog bands were observationalists for the most part and madingley apolitical. Sorry, but in my view the absents of socialism in music was the reason prog was scorned, not embraced. hmm, I guess you're not very familiar with Henry Cow, Faust and Area then are you? Just a theory, why else then? The music is too complicated after downing a couple six packs of Bud? I've really never understood the hatred amongst the rock critics for prog and this was about the most applicable explanation I've run into considering that most journalists get a very liberal education. It would seem naive to dismiss the great influence Marxism holds on young journalists. That's not to say that prog is conservative at all it's just may be perceived that way for the statements I quoted earlier. Remember, Marxist ideals permeate most universities and some political correct pundits would find a fascist under every toilet seat. If you got a better theory then lets hear it, I'm open...

I think early prog is romantic in its leaning and gets its ideology from that rather than politics. I really don't think it has a Marxist bent other than the fact that Marx was a Nineteenth Century romantic figure. Marxism has wavered from universities since the faiing of the Berlin wall and is really no longer a viable discourse although many older professors will still harken back to '60s liberalism.  As someone said earlier, it is really problematic to see politics in a liberal v conservative dichotomy that really says nothing about reality.

I think there may be some truth in what you are saying about jounalists who villlified prog as elitist  and exalted punk as truly rock n roll.  If you read reviews of prog from the '70s in Time Magazine, the New York Times and other mainstream, non-musical press, you will find that there is not this bias against prog that existed in Rolling Stone, Creem and the NME.

Prog was a working class music. Emerson and both Andersons, came from very meager backgrounds. As a matter of fact, it is the public school kids: Bruford, Gabriel, Waters and Sinfield that have always stood out without people questioning the classist bias in that. Ian Anderson is a much better song writer than any of them.

You are right akin, Brazil is pretty corrupt.

But there is some good news. I was reading in the paper that there are 88 million men and 93 million women in Brazil. That gives us five million more women than men!

Catholic Flame wrote: Syzygy wrote: Catholic Flame wrote: Syzygy wrote: Catholic Flame wrote: BestFreak wrote: If we look at the political spectrum back in the 1950's and 1960's, we will find that most political parties which named themselves "progressive" were socialist/left-wing in nature. In a way, socialim provided the political spectrum with an alternative to the then-outdated nationalist/conservative movements, which ultimately resulted in two world wars. Bearing this in mind, I think we can say that "socialism" (as a new way of main-stream political thinking) paved the way for "progressive music" (as a new way of writing music). Also, quite remarkable is the fact that "capitalism" (as a means to maximize profits) lead to the emergence of consumerism in all aspects of life, including arts (and particularly the music industry). How else can we explain the myriad of bands who emerge everyday, to sell one rubbish album to today's teenagers? In that sense, "progressive music" does not have "profit maximization" as a target, and therefore is far from being "capitalist" in nature. It is safe, therefore, to claim that Progressive Rock does have some conceptual similarities with "Socialism". Am I making any sense at all? But, to paraphrase Ayn Rand, communism controls people by force and socialism controls them with the vote. Capitalism allows people free expression. Isn't that what "Prog" should be about? Choice! For good or for bad we get to choose.   Capitalism only offers the illusion of choice - when Pravda printed statements like that about communism in the Soviet Union nobody believed them. Why so many people swallow the enormous untruths about US consumer capitalism without a moment's pause for critical reflection is one of the great mysteries of our age. Ayn Rand's half baked merging of Adam Smith economics and a 3rd Reich style misreading of Nietszche is intellectually bankrupt and morally vacuous. If you're going to try to back up your arguments, try citing a source that has at least an iota of credibility. So Pravda is your credible source????????????????????????????????????? My point: Pravda, the state owned Soviet newspaper (the name means 'Truth' in Russian) used to print blatant propaganda about the Soviet system This was believed by almost nobody in the West, and apparently by a vanishingly small number of people in the Soviet Union as well Pravda was not a credible source. Moving on: Media owned by huge multinational corporations with a vested interest in scorched earth consumer capitalism print blatant propaganda about consumer capitalism This is believed by worryingly large numbers of people News International et al are not credible sources Now go and read Manufacturing Consent by Noam Chomsky, in which every argument is backed up with checkable and verifiable citations. His prose style is highly readable, which is more than can be said for Ayn Rand. But what prog group ever thanked Noam Chomsky? Rush thanked Ayn Rand. If this site was devoted to political discussion it might -- might -- be worth the time. But since we are talking about Prog music, again what prog group ever thanked Noam Chomsky? Has any other group sighted a political/economic figure? It would be interesting to know.

Robert Wyatt namechecks and quotes Noam Chomsky in the lyrics to Alliance off Old Rottenhat:

http://www.strongcomet.com/wyatt/lyrics/lyrics2.htm#Alliance

His political views were also made explicit on Matching Mole's Little Red Record, on the cover of which the band members are portrayed in the Socialist Realism style as left wing revolutionaries. Then there's his cover version of Stalin Wasn't Stallin' on Nothing Can Stop Us and his versions of songs by Victor Jara, a Chilean dissident murdered by the Pinochet regime.

Henry Cow were also explicitly political, and quoted the left wing film maker John Grierson on the cover of In Praise Of Learning - "Art is not A mirror; it is a hammer". This engagement continued with post Henry Cow projects like Art Bears and News From Babel.

The majority of RIO/Avant Prog bands are also left wing, some more explicitly than others.

Aside from that scene, Nick Mason refers to Pink Floyd's left wing sympathies several times in Inside Out, although the irony of such a successful group performing 'Money" isn't touched upon at all.