Welcome, Shawn Phillips

Edited by jamesbaldwin - July 10 2019 at 16:55

I kind of sat on this post for awhile, I’m sorry to say. Shawn Phillips is wonderful. I’ve enjoyed many listens of his classic albums and saw him live twice and got to have quick superficial chats with him afterwards. He’s not obvious Prog, but a good case can be made from how he combines genres at times. I’m happy to see him included. Prog-Related seems a little odd. I would have brought him in as Prog Folk. I had thought it strange previously that Shawn Phillips was not on PA while I assumed Lindisfarne was - until I went looking for Lindisfarne under the Ls on PA and not actually finding them. So that point is moot.

jamesbaldwin wrote: ... Yes, Donovan relevance. He was one of the most original and sophysticated arranger of his era: folk,  blues, jazz, vaudeville etc. He wasn't helped by his producer like Beatles did. The question is: Phillips claims he co-wrote with Donovan a lot of songs for Fairy Tale, Sunshine Superman,  Mellow Yellow. Where can we feel Phillips' hand (like author and arranger) in that albums? Or: were Phillips' folk ballads influenced by Donovan?

moshkito wrote: Hi, .... Shawn Phillips deserves to be here, for being himself, and not just a song, and not just something that the top ten darlings love ... he has stated before that he was not interested in labels and he only did what felt right to him, and had nothing to do with a definition or explanation. ....However, listening to it now, it is clear that this is very good, and deserves a listen. It's a shame that we have to mention SP in the same way that some folks here do, when they think it's not good music ... and this is why I do not like music to be simply a preference, or a style ... it takes away the individuality, and in this case, we don't know what kicks SP  It reminds me of the discussions, time and again, of the harsh voiced singers ... and people continually comparing Roger Chapman, to Joe Cocker and then Peter Gabriel, or Francesco di Giacomo ... when the value of the content is totally ignored for some kind of sounds like this or that ... and none of them do, anyway because what they sing is not about this or that ... it's about who they are. SP deserves to be here ... although I would probably just mash him into a folk category, rather than this one ... I have to re-listen to things, but I do not recall his material being that much rock oriented, a lot more than it was folk oriented.

Logan wrote: First of all, great job on the addition. And welcome back, it's those who announce their departures who seem the most likely to return often (or those are the ones we will most notice as it is most conspicuous). It's the ones who quietly slip away who most often stay gone. Speaking of slipping away, I don't see it as a slip as we discussed this and did our research, and I would expect that the team that suggested it to us would have thought about it carefully too before asking us to look into them. PR additions should be rare. Every admission should be on a case-by-case basis, and I didn't see any necessity for both even to be decided on at the same time. In the case of Shawn Phillips, his involvement with Cosmic Debris which is included in Progressive Electronic (even if on only on one album) helped his case as Prog Related. It was quite a close call with Al Stewart and I can't say that he will never be included (I was most convinced by his "Nostradamus", which I found with my own research, which tipped me into a yes position, but I don't know anything else of his with comparable merit). Normally we deal with one act act a time, in this case we were asked to evaluate both (I can get why that would be). The expectation has been that we don't decide based on listening to the music but based on the arguments that are presented to us. In this case we all did listen carefully and research. With Shawn Phillips, he had enough of a connection to Acid Folk, Progressive Folk and Chamber Folk for me to find him musically compelling. Perhaps we should stick to doing things the formal way: CLICK So, then part of it should be about how well and thoroughly a case is presented and argued to us (and we shouldn't have to know a note of the music). I do think it's best when there's some vibrant discussion going in Suggest New Bands (SP had a fairly recent thread started by Lorenzo which I participated in somewhat, of course Al Stewart would get more response, sure he's come up before), then it's PMed to us as formal suggestion after there's been some sort of forum consensus on it being Prog, from an SC with a solid case being made. Of course it also helps that the Prog team that most closely associates with the style of music supports the case (as they did with Stewart and Phillips).   In this case we did use our own ears and do research of our own. I found Phillips case rather more compelling on the whole, but I was okay with both and I was okay with including both and with not having both -- I do like to give the teams the benefit of the doubt as I would expect that they would know this stuff well if proposing it to us. But we wont include everything and we won't include everything related at the same time. I would have been okay with neither (I'd be more interested in discussing Donovan's relevance). I do think we should be careful with what is added, and if there are doubts, then not give the go ahead to add (later on one might reconsider if someone makes a good case for which it gains support and traction). By the way, not generally a very high-rated album, but I like Stewart's Zero She Flies considerably.

First of all, great job on the addition.

And welcome back, it's those who announce their departures who seem the most likely to return often (or those are the ones we will most notice as it is most conspicuous). It's the ones who quietly slip away who most often stay gone. Speaking of slipping away, I don't see it as a slip as we discussed this and did our research, and I would expect that the team that suggested it to us would have thought about it carefully too before asking us to look into them. PR additions should be rare.

Every admission should be on a case-by-case basis, and I didn't see any necessity for both even to be decided on at the same time. In the case of Shawn Phillips, his involvement with Cosmic Debris which is included in Progressive Electronic (even if on only on one album) helped his case as Prog Related. It was quite a close call with Al Stewart and I can't say that he will never be included (I was most convinced by his "Nostradamus", which I found with my own research, which tipped me into a yes position, but I don't know anything else of his with comparable merit).

Normally we deal with one act act a time, in this case we were asked to evaluate both (I can get why that would be). The expectation has been that we don't decide based on listening to the music but based on the arguments that are presented to us. In this case we all did listen carefully and research.

With Shawn Phillips, he had enough of a connection to Acid Folk, Progressive Folk and Chamber Folk for me to find him musically compelling.

Perhaps we should stick to doing things the formal way: CLICK

So, then part of it should be about how well and thoroughly a case is presented and argued to us (and we shouldn't have to know a note of the music).

I do think it's best when there's some vibrant discussion going in Suggest New Bands (SP had a fairly recent thread started by Lorenzo which I participated in somewhat, of course Al Stewart would get more response, sure he's come up before), then it's PMed to us as formal suggestion after there's been some sort of forum consensus on it being Prog, from an SC with a solid case being made. Of course it also helps that the Prog team that most closely associates with the style of music supports the case (as they did with Stewart and Phillips).   In this case we did use our own ears and do research of our own.

I found Phillips case rather more compelling on the whole, but I was okay with both and I was okay with including both and with not having both -- I do like to give the teams the benefit of the doubt as I would expect that they would know this stuff well if proposing it to us. But we wont include everything and we won't include everything related at the same time. I would have been okay with neither (I'd be more interested in discussing Donovan's relevance). I do think we should be careful with what is added, and if there are doubts, then not give the go ahead to add (later on one might reconsider if someone makes a good case for which it gains support and traction). By the way, not generally a very high-rated album, but I like Stewart's Zero She Flies considerably.

Edited by Logan - June 04 2019 at 16:06

SteveG wrote: Hi doc. Yeah that's why I said 'yeah, whatever.' LOl!

^ Steve,   your check is in the mail.  ;)

kenethlevine wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Second Contribution is an interesting album....though I never really 'got into him.' But one wonders then why Al Stewart isn't here in the same category....? IMO Phillips is, at times,  not much more proggy than Stewart's early efforts . Both were suggested at the same time and the admin team considered both thoughtfully and ultimately decided that Al doesn't make the cut.  I'm not as familiar with Phillips even though I have known of him since 1974 and he got plenty of airplay back then in Montreal.  I certainly liked some of his stuff but never consistently enough to make me a fan.  Still, from what I have heard (and I"ve heard most of Al Stewart's output from the late 1960s and 1970s), I would say Phillips is indeed more prog related than Stewart.  I do consider myself a fan of Al Stewart.  Interestingly, I love best his most commercially successful albums

Edited by dr wu23 - June 04 2019 at 13:37