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Topic ClosedBritish Proto-Prog
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Poll Question: Which of these do you prefer? (Beatles omitted)
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
2 [8.70%]
6 [26.09%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.35%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
1 [4.35%]
1 [4.35%]
1 [4.35%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [13.04%]
0 [0.00%]
8 [34.78%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Kati View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 29 2015 at 23:28
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

....pearlyknob....

LOL Good one, Mascodagama...


hahahaha Earlyprog, your comment and both of yours now made me laugh very much lol starting from your reply and reading back hahaha so funny LOLHug
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2015 at 08:39
Originally posted by Mascodagama Mascodagama wrote:

....pearlyknob....

LOL Good one, Mascodagama...
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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2015 at 07:46
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

^what is your problem with this, Machodagama, sorry Vascodagama?

You should explore the site more and find out how the north meets the east.
 
Very well, pearlyknob, I shall do that.
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 12:36
^what is your problem with this, Machodagama, sorry Vascodagama?

You should explore the site more and find out how the north meets the east.


Edited by earlyprog - March 27 2015 at 13:00
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Points: 5111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 09:26
Originally posted by earlyprog earlyprog wrote:

...Serbtonio...
 
I realise you have your differences, but still.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:34
*sigh*
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 08:32
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What's really a shame is that a more popular band like Wire is not listed in PA while Sarlo Akrobata is. Perhaps someday. Oh, and you can have your cave back, I'm done with the rental.
 
At least we got a cool video of Tomorrow to watch, out of all these diversions from the topic.  (Mmm, chili powder.)
What is the point? Seriously. What is the point of you making all these snide (or is it witty? I always get them mixed up) comments while contributing exactly zero-point-zero percent of sod-all to this thread? How often have Wire been rejected for inclusion here? How many times have Wire been suggested for inclusion here? How many times have Wire been discussed in the forum for possible inclusion? How many subgenres have Wire been suggested for? To save you the effort of actually doing something like, huh, I dunno ... looking maybe - I'll tell you the answer to all those questions - Zero. A big fat bloody zero. Isn't that a crying shame. In ten years no one has thought it necessary to suggest them for listing here. Not one single person. Not even you or some other Hose has had the brrrriiiliant idea of suggesting that an experimental art-punk band that was signed to the Progressive imprint of EMI records could possibly be suitable for addition here. Over the past ten years 52,94x people have signed up to this site and the total number of those who managed to find the Suggest New Bands thread and create a thread suggesting Wire is precisely zero. Isn't it odd that not one of those 52,94x members has even bothered to suggest shoe-horning them into Prog Related given that guitarist Bruce Gilbert is included here under Progressive Electronic? ...and just to add to the string of zeros that this post already contains - with exactly zero ratings and zero reviews for every single one of the twenty releases we have listed in Gilbert's discography. But as you say Wire are a popular band so quite a few of those 52,94x members will know who they are, some may even have vinyl copies of Pink Flag, Chairs Missing or 154 sitting in their record collections, so it's a safe bet that Wire will garner a few more than the 5 reviews and 16 ratings that Šarlo Akrobata's two releases attracted. I won't be one of them of course because I don't write reviews but those three Wire albums will still be good albums in my estimation whether I write reviews for them or not.

The thing is, and this is a bit of shame really, you can't cry "shame" about a band not being here when they've never been actually been rejected. Wanna know how many times The Beach Boys have been rejected here? Go on, have a guess, all the clues are here... yup zero. Never been suggested, never been rejected. I'd like to say the same thing about The Steve Miller Band but alas I can't - while it's true that the nice and accurate count of the number of times they've been rejected is precisely zero, they have been suggested in the New Suggestions Thread once before - it was a suggestion by a fellow with the user name "ko" - a strange chap, who in an oddly aggressive manner managed to piss-off a few people in very quick time and had his thread locked as a result of that. What is disappointing for me is that I had no involvement in that escapade at all and missed out on all the fun. By some weird co-incidence "ko" was a fan of The Who, believed that Miller wrote the entire 26 minutes of Shine On You Crazy Diamond, used the addition of 1980s Eastern European bands here as some kind of jibe against PA's inclusion policy and regarded Nick Logan and Bob Woffingen's picture-book of Rock for children as the bible of 60s & 70s rock music (and he also managed to misread and misinterpret its contents). Who would have thunk that two people here could be so much alike? (or is it three? I always get them mixed up).

So sure I'll be haunting around here for as long as I can, though 50 years is a bit of a stretch. I'm not Cerberus the three-headed dog guarding the entrance to this kingdom of Prog, I have no power of veto over any suggestions people make and just like everyone else who isn't on an Eval team I don't get a vote - if a band is suggested, evaluated and accepted then there is nothing I can do to prevent that. All I can do is state the case in favour or against any suggestion that catches my attention, because if I don't speak up before the addition then I certainly cannot complain after it. However as Iván says: you can complain before an addition but once a band is in they cannot be removed so you might as well keep your mouth shut. It also helps if you restate that every time the band whose addition you disapprove of is mentioned.
There's no snide  or witty comments Dean, this is referred to simply as small talk and is inconsequential to every one, it seems, except you. There is no hidden agenda behind any of my words except what you project into them. Take another look at what I wrote and pretend it's your best friend or a close loved one uttering them and you'll see no malevolent intent.
 
Your trolley has been jumping it's tracks quite a lot lately. Why don't you step back and regroup before you plummet down into a ravine.


Edited by SteveG - March 27 2015 at 08:35
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Points: 13097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 07:55
Boy, has this thread drifted off into lunacy. I'll take my share of the blame. Plus, I never could stand Steve Miller. I get violently ill when I hear Joker (f**k Maurice!), Swingtown and particularly Abracadra. Trash.
 
Back to the actual subject of this thread, British proto-prog. I must say S.F. Sorrow is a really remarkable album, and doesn't get near the attention it should. Having been young at the time of its release, and in America, I didn't have access to it (or know of its existence) until the mid-70s. But I think it fit right in at that point in time with the morose works of Floyd and Sabbath that were popular. I guess it didn't fit the happy, hopeful, hippy dream of 1968, hence its lack of album sales.
 
 
 
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2015 at 04:30
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Sharlo The Acrobat is one album wonder and perhaps there is an affirmative action (positive discrimination) toward Sharlo as a part disadvantaged group of Yugoslav punk/post-punk acts who released a single album, and, consenquently, Sharlo is not alone; another Yugoslav post-punk one album wonder (though with a CD compilation of tracks from his 1981 debut LP and previously unreleased tracks), Dr Spira is also here
Once again, a disappointingly typical example of how little you understand of the PA and how it functions. This is an egalitarian multinational, multicultural site with members from all walks of life, all ages, all ethnicities, all theologies and all political ideologies meeting together for one common love - the love of progressive rock music. Prejudices should be left at the door, they are not welcome here, as it says in the Site Rules and Guidelines: there is no place in this forum for bigotry. This multinational, multicultural make-up is reflected in the collaborators with members being selected to join a particular genre team purely by their knowledge of some aspect of progressive rock and their ability to work well with others in a team. 

The teams are wholly autonomous - they work independently and without interference or coercion, yet they are not fiefdoms so are they not permitted to impose their own ideology on the subgenres they manage. They are not permitted to reject a band because they don't like the music, they are not permitted to reject a band because of where that band came from, or for the religion or politics of the band members. Their only mandate is to listen to the music and decide whether it fits into the subgenre - there is no discrimination permitted in this: no positive discrimination, no negative discrimination. None. Zip. Nada. It is without bias and without prejudice. If a Punk band is suggest but the music fits the genre then they qualify - there is a special rule regarding bands that may be thought of as controversial and that rule simply states that every member of the team must agree with the addition. This is not an unreasonable rule, nor is it unfair or unjust. Personally I think every addition should be a unanimous vote and there are good statistical reasons for saying that, but we have a majority-vote system in place here and no one want to change it.

With that autonomy comes responsibility and accountability - if the team accepts a band then they must carry the responsibility, they are representing the whole of the collaborator team and the whole of the forum membership in every decision they make and because that responsibility has been delegated to them by the site Admins then the Admins are duty-bound to support those decisions. And because responsibility is passed down from the Admins to all collaborators then it is in the Collabs best interests to support the Admin team and all the decisions made by other teams within the collaborator system. If not then the system collapses into anarchy. As a non-team member with collaborator status I may not approve a teams decision to add a band that I do not think of as a Prog band, but I sure as hell respect and support their right to add them.

Because non-collabs cannot see what happens behind the closed door of the Collaborator Zone it is natural for them to think the worse and to make accusations and assumptions that confirm their own prejudices. That it is some kind of secretive cabal where the collabs plot and scheme. Alas, the truth is far more mundane and tedious - it is a quiet zone where team members can evaluate each band and discuss amongst themselves how that music fits into the subgenre without pestering and interference from interested parties. There's an anniversary thread where we celebrate each other birthdays, a congratulatory thread where we pat each other on the back for being promoted and every December there is a flurry of activity when we all get to vote on our bestest favouritest album of the year. But apart from that, nothing else happens there - in fact it is arse-numbingly boring if you're not actively involved in adding bands.

Now I don't know anything of Šarlo Akrobata or Dr Spira, but I do know that they were evaluated by completely different teams at completely different times and added into completely different subgenres on this site. I do know that there was no mandate to add those bands because they were seen to be part of some "disadvantaged group", there are no quotas or directives to add Croatian bands or Serbian bands or any other group from the former Yugoslavian Republic. 

You want to play politics with these bands then that is your prerogative, but don't presume that anyone here is playing along and do not make false assumptions and shielded accusations that you cannot back up. And if you want to 1-star both those bands that is your prerogative too - but boy does that look petty and vindictive in light of what you have post here.


Edited by Dean - March 27 2015 at 04:31
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 21:56
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What's really a shame is that a more popular band like Wire is not listed in PA while Sarlo Akrobata is. Perhaps someday. Oh, and you can have your cave back, I'm done with the rental.
 
At least we got a cool video of Tomorrow to watch, out of all these diversions from the topic.  (Mmm, chili powder.)
What is the point? Seriously. What is the point of you making all these snide (or is it witty? I always get them mixed up) comments while contributing exactly zero-point-zero percent of sod-all to this thread? How often have Wire been rejected for inclusion here? How many times have Wire been suggested for inclusion here? How many times have Wire been discussed in the forum for possible inclusion? How many subgenres have Wire been suggested for? To save you the effort of actually doing something like, huh, I dunno ... looking maybe - I'll tell you the answer to all those questions - Zero. A big fat bloody zero. Isn't that a crying shame. In ten years no one has thought it necessary to suggest them for listing here. Not one single person. Not even you or some other Hose has had the brrrriiiliant idea of suggesting that an experimental art-punk band that was signed to the Progressive imprint of EMI records could possibly be suitable for addition here. Over the past ten years 52,94x people have signed up to this site and the total number of those who managed to find the Suggest New Bands thread and create a thread suggesting Wire is precisely zero. Isn't it odd that not one of those 52,94x members has even bothered to suggest shoe-horning them into Prog Related given that guitarist Bruce Gilbert is included here under Progressive Electronic? ...and just to add to the string of zeros that this post already contains - with exactly zero ratings and zero reviews for every single one of the twenty releases we have listed in Gilbert's discography. But as you say Wire are a popular band so quite a few of those 52,94x members will know who they are, some may even have vinyl copies of Pink Flag, Chairs Missing or 154 sitting in their record collections, so it's a safe bet that Wire will garner a few more than the 5 reviews and 16 ratings that Šarlo Akrobata's two releases attracted. I won't be one of them of course because I don't write reviews but those three Wire albums will still be good albums in my estimation whether I write reviews for them or not.

The thing is, and this is a bit of shame really, you can't cry "shame" about a band not being here when they've never been actually been rejected. Wanna know how many times The Beach Boys have been rejected here? Go on, have a guess, all the clues are here... yup zero. Never been suggested, never been rejected. I'd like to say the same thing about The Steve Miller Band but alas I can't - while it's true that the nice and accurate count of the number of times they've been rejected is precisely zero, they have been suggested in the New Suggestions Thread once before - it was a suggestion by a fellow with the user name "ko" - a strange chap, who in an oddly aggressive manner managed to piss-off a few people in very quick time and had his thread locked as a result of that. What is disappointing for me is that I had no involvement in that escapade at all and missed out on all the fun. By some weird co-incidence "ko" was a fan of The Who, believed that Miller wrote the entire 26 minutes of Shine On You Crazy Diamond, used the addition of 1980s Eastern European bands here as some kind of jibe against PA's inclusion policy and regarded Nick Logan and Bob Woffingen's picture-book of Rock for children as the bible of 60s & 70s rock music (and he also managed to misread and misinterpret its contents). Who would have thunk that two people here could be so much alike? (or is it three? I always get them mixed up).

So sure I'll be haunting around here for as long as I can, though 50 years is a bit of a stretch. I'm not Cerberus the three-headed dog guarding the entrance to this kingdom of Prog, I have no power of veto over any suggestions people make and just like everyone else who isn't on an Eval team I don't get a vote - if a band is suggested, evaluated and accepted then there is nothing I can do to prevent that. All I can do is state the case in favour or against any suggestion that catches my attention, because if I don't speak up before the addition then I certainly cannot complain after it. However as Iván says: you can complain before an addition but once a band is in they cannot be removed so you might as well keep your mouth shut. It also helps if you restate that every time the band whose addition you disapprove of is mentioned.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 21:09
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No sarcasm intended. In fifty years times, revisionist history will declare Punk Rock as the past's truly progressive rock music, Johnny Rotten will be declared an retroactive genius after dethroning the formally retro activated Gary Glitter and PA will be changed to the politically correct Punk Archives. (...)
Hey Steve, are you living in a cave?!
Punk Rock is already in Prog Archives, man! Well, not Johnny Rotten yet, he will come later as a headliner, but as an opening act, Yugoslav Punk band Šarlo Akrobata is already in Prog Archives' RIO/Avant Prog section! Shame on you Steve LOL
What's really a shame is that a more popular band like Wire is not listed in PA while Sarlo Akrobata is. Perhaps someday. Oh and you can have your cave back, I'm done with the rental. (...)
Sharlo The Acrobat is one album wonder and perhaps there is an affirmative action (positive discrimination) toward Sharlo as a part disadvantaged group of Yugoslav punk/post-punk acts who released a single album, and, consenquently, Sharlo is not alone; another Yugoslav post-punk one album wonder (though with a CD compilation of tracks from his 1981 debut LP and previously unreleased tracks), Dr Spira is also here
 
Oh and thanks for the cave, though hygiene could be better LOL
 
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 14:56
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No sarcasm intended. In fifty years times, revisionist history will declare Punk Rock as the past's truly progressive rock music, Johnny Rotten will be declared an retroactive genius after dethroning the formally retro activated Gary Glitter and PA will be changed to the politically correct Punk Archives. (...)
Hey Steve, are you living in a cave?!
Punk Rock is already in Prog Archives, man! Well, not Johnny Rotten yet, he will come later as a headliner, but as an opening act, Yugoslav Punk band Šarlo Akrobata is already in Prog Archives' RIO/Avant Prog section! Shame on you Steve LOL
What's really a shame is that a more popular band like Wire is not listed in PA while Sarlo Akrobata is. Perhaps someday. Oh, and you can have your cave back, I'm done with the rental.
 
At least we got a cool video of Tomorrow to watch, out of all these diversions from the topic.  (Mmm, chili powder.)


Edited by SteveG - March 26 2015 at 15:12
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Points: 104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 14:44
I'm not eligible to actually vote for some reason but if I was it would be The Pretty Things every day!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 12:55
Right. Once again we've successfully managed to trash a perfectly good thread/poll with the needless and pointless distraction of "what is..?" and "why aren't..?" type round of distracting discussions. 


Next up: Tomorrow

Tomorrow were one of those London based bands that frequented The Marque and UFO club (jamming with the likes of Hendrix) that formed the epicentre of the psychedelic scene at that time.

They were another band that perhaps more people have heard of than have actually heard, now they are perhaps remembered more for who was in the band than anything they released. Featuring Keith West of "Grocer Jack" fame and John 'Twink' Adler who later went on to join The Pretty Things, The Pink Fairies and less famously Syd Barrett's short-lived post-Floyd band Stars, they are better known in Prog circles of course for being the band that featured Steve Howe before he joined Yes. 

Rather than post their most famous single (as covered by Nazareth in the 70s), here is a Howe/West composition that pre-dates the Beatless tune of the same name:





Edited by Dean - March 26 2015 at 12:57
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 12:38
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

No sarcasm intended. In fifty years times, revisionist history will declare Punk Rock as the past's truly progressive rock music, Johnny Rotten will be declared an retroactive genius after dethroning the formally retro activated Gary Glitter and PA will be changed to the politically correct Punk Archives. (...)
Hey Steve, are you living in a cave?!
Punk Rock is already in Prog Archives, man! Well, not Johnny Rotten yet, he will come later as a headliner, but as an opening act, Yugoslav Punk band Šarlo Akrobata is already in Prog Archives' RIO/Avant Prog section! Shame on you Steve LOL


Edited by Svetonio - March 26 2015 at 12:40
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 12:05
^LOL

Wink
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 12:01
Would that be the Joker?
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Points: 2134 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 12:00
Looks like the recent attacks on PA's definition of Proto-Prog have been hit back, despite manic carpet bombing and snipers.

When Serbtonio draws the Steve Miller card you know it's his last shot.
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Points: 20616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 10:47
^Absolutely! Great idea, btw. Evil Smile Must try it very soon.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2015 at 10:41
I've been adding a pinch of chilli to my popcorn recently - now that's hot. Evil Smile
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