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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
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Points: 3525
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 14:29 |
It's gotta be tough to consider yourself confident of your understanding of God's word, as the most talked-about concept in religious material is of human failings and frailties.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 14:32 |
Reed Lover wrote:
It is pointless, as you hint, discussing this as your mind is blinded and befuddled by religious zeal.
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I think that blind and befuddled thing goes both ways in this thread.... Both ends of the arguement seem just as devout and confused to me...
Until there is actual proof one way or the other... I'm sticking with Emidar's aunt.... 
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THIS IS ELP
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Reed Lover
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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 15:26 |
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is pointless, as you hint, discussing this as your mind is blinded and befuddled by religious zeal.
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I think that blind and befuddled thing goes both ways in this thread.... Both ends of the arguement seem just as devout and confused to me...
Until there is actual proof one way or the other... I'm sticking with Emidar's aunt.... 
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What a truly patronising statement that is.
Empirically this is an argument I cannot and did not lose. Arguing against something does not make me a zealot.There is not a shred of evidence for any of the stuff that Maani and JrKasp has said. If I just said "prove it" after every one of their statements I would not be deemed "confused" would I? How can you be confused about something that has absolutely no hard evidence to back it up?
ELP are offensive. How do I know? The Holy Spirit told me.So there, Prove that that is not true.
Prove that the Holy Spirit didnt say this to me. He said that the performance of Jerusalem was an offence to God.

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Beau Heem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2005
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 227
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 16:03 |
Whew...
I don't think that anyone should or could defend or prove their their religious believes to anyone.
That said, I'm ready to talk about my own (or the lack of them, actually)
So I'm an atheist. Born and raised without a religion -never been baptized etc.
What I have been taught, is moral and behavioural skills. By skills I
mean the codes according to which I make my decisions and the way I
understand right/wrong (even though it's hardly ever easy).
It is my understanding that I would be a damn good christian (in the
eyes of christianity) but for the church-going (and believing) part.
Religions, at their best, teach individuals (and what's more important, masses) to behave.
Religious institutions, at their worst, turn good people into murderes and rapists.
When some of you read that King James' version of yours, plese do not
make any far-fetched interpretations - it may very well be that other
passages of the same book contradict your findings.
The book is lovely and interesting. For me it is nothing more - to
someone else it contains the reason to live. I'm ready to accept that,
but please don't rub it in my face, at least not in private.
Now, everybody, go out and play! have fun and share the fun, please.
-Beau
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--No enemy but time--
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 16:59 |
Quote Reed.
Prove that the Holy Spirit didnt say this to me. He said that the performance of Jerusalem was an offence to God.
You said he didn't exist, therefor he couldn't have said so, for you wouldn't renounce his excistence if he was actualy speaking to you.
BTW I Know you're not on speaking terms with the good God our ruler. He said so Himself just the other day.
BTBTW, he actualy considers All Prog to be offencive. It's pompous, presumptious, pretentious and fastidious all in one, He prefers a more humble aproach.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Reed Lover
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Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 18:47 |
tuxon wrote:
Quote Reed.
Prove that the Holy Spirit didnt say this to me. He said that the performance of Jerusalem was an offence to God.
You said he didn't exist, therefor he couldn't have said so, for you wouldn't renounce his excistence if he was actualy speaking to you.
BTW I Know you're not on speaking terms with the good God our ruler. He said so Himself just the other day.
BTBTW, he actualy considers All Prog to be offencive. It's pompous, presumptious, pretentious and fastidious all in one, He prefers a more humble aproach.
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Yeah, you're right Tux.
Now about those voices.....
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tuxon
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Joined: September 21 2004
Location: plugged-in
Status: Offline
Points: 5502
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 19:36 |
It's the beer speaking I guess.
Hey here's a thought BEER IS GOD
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 15 2005 at 21:58 |
I'm pretty sure God is partial to reggae.
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emdiar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 05 2004
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 890
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 08:18 |
James Lee wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
James Lee wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
James Lee wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
So Greg, James, you two dating now?

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Nah...James isn't my type. Remember....I don't like chicks.
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why am I a chick now?
Or is that a subtle attempt to get a peek under my hood?
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............................................................ ........................................ 
Just having fun JL.
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I do look shockingly good in a dress, but then again I look shockingly good in anything!!! 
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I'd do ya! 
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And the saddest thing is that this is the closest to a Friday night hook-up I've had in years!   
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Quote gdub411 (above): "James? A gay? I'm the only gay on this forum!"
Edited by emdiar
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Perception is truth, ergo opinion is fact.
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 12:54 |
Reed Lover wrote:
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is pointless, as you hint, discussing this as your mind is blinded and befuddled by religious zeal.
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I think that blind and befuddled thing goes both ways in this thread.... Both ends of the arguement seem just as devout and confused to me...
Until there is actual proof one way or the other... I'm sticking with Emidar's aunt.... 
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What a truly patronising statement that is.
Empirically this is an argument I cannot and did not lose. Arguing against something does not make me a zealot.There is not a shred of evidence for any of the stuff that Maani and JrKasp has said. If I just said "prove it" after every one of their statements I would not be deemed "confused" would I? How can you be confused about something that has absolutely no hard evidence to back it up?
ELP are offensive. How do I know? The Holy Spirit told me.So there, Prove that that is not true.
Prove that the Holy Spirit didnt say this to me. He said that the performance of Jerusalem was an offence to God.

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Its not your arguement that makes you a zealot... its the way you chastise others for their beliefts... that does make you a zealot!!!
And if the Holy Spirit tells you anything offensive about another person or perfect music group.. then you're doing too many drugs...!!
And God told me that Jerusalem was his favorite hymn.. and ELP did a great job on it.. and somehow I think I have a closer relationship with God than you do....
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THIS IS ELP
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 13:15 |
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is pointless, as you hint, discussing this as your mind is blinded and befuddled by religious zeal.
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I think that blind and befuddled thing goes both ways in this thread.... Both ends of the arguement seem just as devout and confused to me...
Until there is actual proof one way or the other... I'm sticking with Emidar's aunt.... 
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What a truly patronising statement that is.
Empirically this is an argument I cannot and did not lose. Arguing against something does not make me a zealot.There is not a shred of evidence for any of the stuff that Maani and JrKasp has said. If I just said "prove it" after every one of their statements I would not be deemed "confused" would I? How can you be confused about something that has absolutely no hard evidence to back it up?
ELP are offensive. How do I know? The Holy Spirit told me.So there, Prove that that is not true.
Prove that the Holy Spirit didnt say this to me. He said that the performance of Jerusalem was an offence to God.

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Its not your arguement that makes you a zealot... its the way you chastise others for their beliefts... that does make you a zealot!!!
There comes a point where you have to "speak up" because staying quiet is a cop out-the easy route. When I read gay men or promiscuous women talking about their belief in Christianity, I wonder why they join a club then ignore its rules. Have you read anything the Christian Minister has said written about Scripture? I zealously want people to think about the casual way they pledge their allegiance to causes they seem to know very little about and have no intention of taking seriously.
And if the Holy Spirit tells you anything offensive about another person or perfect music group.. then you're doing too many drugs...!!
Saying something you dont like is not necessarily offensive. If you call a burglar "a thief",the word "thief" is very emotive, but true nonetheless.I was making a frivolous but reasonable point about "proof".
And God told me that Jerusalem was his favorite hymn.. and ELP did a great job on it.. and somehow I think I have a closer relationship with God than you do....
You had to say that didnt you-so I will make a mischievous reply:
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Not if my reading of the Gospels or Exodus is correct........
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 13:18 |
=Reed Lover
Not if my reading of the Gospels or Exodus is correct........
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Conclusive proof to back up James Lee's most excellent and lucid argument...
God does love reggae - one of the chapters of the bible is named before a Bob Marley album 
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threefates
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 30 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4215
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 13:33 |
Reed Lover wrote:
Its not your arguement that makes you a zealot... its the way you chastise others for their beliefts... that does make you a zealot!!!
There comes a point where you have to "speak up" because staying quiet is a cop out-the easy route. When I read gay men or promiscuous women talking about their belief in Christianity, I wonder why they join a club then ignore its rules. Have you read anything the Christian Minister has said written about Scripture? I zealously want people to think about the casual way they pledge their allegiance to causes they seem to know very little about and have no intention of taking seriously.
Not all Christian beliefs follow the laws of the Bible with such strictness. Maybe your catholic upbringing makes you think so, but I know that all I need to do to be a Christian is to believe that he was the son of God .. and go one from there. Now according to my bible... I find that a lot of the old rules in the old testament were changed around quite a bit by Christ in the new testament...wasn't a prostitute one of the best friends of Jesus??... and as you had stated previoiusly, men wrote these texts many years after the actual events.. and anything written by men, I have to take with a grain of salt anyway... so my ideas on sex, I accept as my own... and I don't give it as much religious credence as you seem to give it.
AFterall according to the old testament... by just you pulling out before ejaculation, could mean your death....
And if the Holy Spirit tells you anything offensive about another person or perfect music group.. then you're doing too many drugs...!!
Saying something you dont like is not necessarily offensive. If you call a burglar "a thief",the word "thief" is very emotive, but true nonetheless.I was making a frivolous but reasonable point about "proof". ( So was I.... )
And God told me that Jerusalem was his favorite hymn.. and ELP did a great job on it.. and somehow I think I have a closer relationship with God than you do....
You had to say that didnt you-so I will make a mischievous reply:
Not if my reading of the Gospels or Exodus is correct........
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Then you must have a completely different set of gospels.....
And I think that just the fact I believe in him, would put me in a little better light than you my friend....
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THIS IS ELP
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 13:47 |
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
Its not your arguement that makes you a zealot... its the way you chastise others for their beliefts... that does make you a zealot!!!
There comes a point where you have to "speak up" because staying quiet is a cop out-the easy route. When I read gay men or promiscuous women talking about their belief in Christianity, I wonder why they join a club then ignore its rules. Have you read anything the Christian Minister has said written about Scripture? I zealously want people to think about the casual way they pledge their allegiance to causes they seem to know very little about and have no intention of taking seriously.
Not all Christian beliefs follow the laws of the Bible with such strictness. Maybe your catholic upbringing makes you think so, but I know that all I need to do to be a Christian is to believe that he was the son of God .. and go one from there. Now according to my bible... I find that a lot of the old rules in the old testament were changed around quite a bit by Christ in the new testament...wasn't a prostitute one of the best friends of Jesus??... and as you had stated previoiusly, men wrote these texts many years after the actual events.. and anything written by men, I have to take with a grain of salt anyway... so my ideas on sex, I accept as my own... and I don't give it as much religious credence as you seem to give it.
AFterall according to the old testament... by just you pulling out before ejaculation, could mean your death....
And if the Holy Spirit tells you anything offensive about another person or perfect music group.. then you're doing too many drugs...!!
Saying something you dont like is not necessarily offensive. If you call a burglar "a thief",the word "thief" is very emotive, but true nonetheless.I was making a frivolous but reasonable point about "proof". ( So was I.... )
And God told me that Jerusalem was his favorite hymn.. and ELP did a great job on it.. and somehow I think I have a closer relationship with God than you do....
You had to say that didnt you-so I will make a mischievous reply:
Not if my reading of the Gospels or Exodus is correct........
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Then you must have a completely different set of gospels.....
And I think that just the fact I believe in him, would put me in a little better light than you my friend....
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What?
So if I get thrown off this site for not following its rules, I am in a better light than someone who has chosen not to join?
Your "beliefs" are part of what I hate about religion and what other non-believers have expressed in various threads.
You nail your colours to an idea that is totally ridiculous. A child's way of describing how "life" works, a simplistic embarrassment. You claim to believe in Christ, as God, yet want to cherrypick which bits of his "laws/rules/ideas" you wish to follow-with the totally fallacious assumption that Christ's teachings allow this-despite the word of God being his law. Nowhere in any Biblical text is there a rider-"just try your best and you will be ok" this is made up by people like you as an alternative to actually practising their religion.
Your smugness is very Christian btw. If you do genuinely believe in Christ, as God, I suggest you turn to Maani for some guidance-before it is too late!
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 15:36 |
Whew, the topics (and even the title!) on this thread have more twists and turns than a game of Chutes and Ladders (or for the Brits, "Snakes and Ladders"...is there a conspiracy behind why they changed that?).
No, I'm not gay, but the idea doesn't bother me one bit; and yes, God loves reggae. He told me personally, in a prophetic vision that I made up just now. He says He also likes grilled chicken and Will Farrell movies, and is looking for worshippers who like long walks on the beach (He'll do the carrying) and quiet nights in front of the fireplace (just don't get him started on the topic of fire...He'll talk your ear off about witches, burning crosses, and eternal damnation in the furnaces of the Underworld). 
I don't think Reed is really looking to 'convert' anyone, which is lucky given that the people who tend to respond to his posts are the least likely to be swayed. He does have a certain missonary zeal to his atheism, though, doesn't he? 
Edited by James Lee
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 15:59 |
Army:
"What do you want on your dog tags, soldier: Protestant, Catholic,
or Jew?"
Atheist:
"None. I'm an atheist."
Army:
"If you are wounded in battle, who should we call: a minister,
a priest or a rabbi?"
Atheist:
"Call a medic!"
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 16:12 |
Reed Lover wrote:
threefates wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is pointless, as you hint, discussing this as your mind is blinded and befuddled by religious zeal.
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I think that blind and befuddled
thing goes both ways in this thread.... Both ends of the
arguement seem just as devout and confused to me...
Until there is actual proof one way or the other... I'm sticking with Emidar's aunt.... 
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.There is not a shred of evidence for any of the stuff that Maani
and JrKasp has said. If I just said "prove it" after every one of their
statements I would not be deemed "confused" would I? How can you
be confused about something that has absolutely no hard evidence to back it up?
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Really, you seem to ahve missed the part where I explained how it
works, and that it feels totally different from what is called 'your
own feelings'. Instead of asking about that, you proceed to call me
blinded and say I am a zealot. Nowhere in my post did I attack you in
such an offending way.
You may think that what you wish, but there is something called
decency. I do not go around calling my neighbour every morning a bitch.
That's how I feel by just being put back as a zealot.
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Epic.
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 16:15 |
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JrKASperov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 07 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 904
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 16:24 |
Reed Lover wrote:
Ite about religion and what other non-believers have expressed in various threads.
You nail your colours to an idea that is totally ridiculous. A
child's way of describing how "life" works, a simplistic embarrassment.
You claim to believe in Christ, as God, yet want to cherrypick which
bits of his "laws/rules/ideas" you wish to follow-with the totally
fallacious assumption that Christ's teachings allow this-despite the
word of God being his law. Nowhere in any Biblical text is
there a rider-"just try your best and you will be ok" this is made up
by people like you as an alternative to actually practising their
religion.
Your smugness is very Christian btw. If you do genuinely believe in
Christ, as God, I suggest you turn to Maani for some
guidance-before it is too late! |
Here is where you show to know nothing about Christianity.
everyone of us is a sinner, even the most devout ones. The truth about
it according to the Bible is that even if we are all sinners, there is
just ONE thing we have to do, and that is accept Jesus as the Son of
God. So you don't even have to 'try your best', you have to do that one
thing. So, the word sinner may be taken up bad by non-Christians, but
they forget we are taught not to judge! Only the Lord may judge. We may
say you are a sinner because it is said so, but this does not mean we
add any weight to it. In fact, to do so is to damn one self, as Jesus
said: 'you will be judged as you judge one other' In stead, we are
taught to listen to the other man, to guide him if he(the other man) so
chooses, and to show that there is an easy way of salvation. If you do
not believe that, I respect that. But I say to you, it is unfair to
just call another a zealot or blinded without truly knowing how he
lives his faith.
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Epic.
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: January 16 2005 at 16:27 |
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