Your thoughts on gay rights? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Originally posted by VanderGraafKommandöh

VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:

I find sin a weird concept anyway. You commit a sin, God forgives you. So it makes them worthless. So you may as well break them.

It's a bit more nuanced though. For example, your attitude wouldn't be forgiven.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Textbook wrote:

Sin has no place in this conversation. It presupposes a belief it seems most of us here don't have.

No one who can read should take something like the bible as any kind of moral authority. Remember the bible also says it's OK to murder your own child if they're unruly.

From Dueteronomy:

21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:

21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

So, in short, f**k the bible.

This would be somewhat of a fallacy of division.

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Textbook wrote:

So, in short, f**k the bible.

Well that's the most straight forward, sensible answer yet.

Don't worry James if no one was offended they will be soon LOL

Henry Plainview wrote:

You shouldn't complain about anything if you only have the most superficial understanding of what it's about.

Fixed

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - April 16 2012 at 16:15

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:

I don't need to know what religion is about to know it's not for me.

Okay, but then also don't make snarky off-topic comments in threads when you're not even correct...

if you own a sodastream i hate you

Henry Plainview wrote:

VanderGraafKommandöh wrote:

I don't need to know what religion is about to know it's not for me.

Okay, but then also don't make snarky off-topic comments in threads when you're not even correct...

Nobody is correct.

Sean Trane wrote:

Ivàn buddy,

Are you not confusing civil marriage with religious marriage, in this issue? I don't favor gays trying to force the church gates open to wed, but they are indeed welcome in some countries to marry

No, I'm not confusing anything Sean, the Catholic Church will never admit gay marriage, no matter what the civil authorities say.

Sean Trane wrote:

How do you treat the people who are married only at city hall? It's perfectily legal, yet they've not gone to do that religiously

I know it's legal, hey, I'm a lawyer, and I had some divorce cases that the Church doesn't accept.

What I say is that the Church doesn't give a damn about civil marriage, if you want to register your kid in a Catholic School (for example), they ask for religious marriage only (Now they accept baptized kids even if their parents never married)..

BTW: At least in Perú, if you are married only by ANY Church or you prove that you live with a couple of the opposite sex for more than two years (if you are not previously married), you have exactly the same rights as if you were married by a civil authority.

Sean Trane wrote:

Yeah, I agree that surrevaluating the women's value to men is illegal (same with babies, cops, priests, politicians or judges & lawyers). Someone could attack Peru for this!!

Intentionally killing someone (whoever it may be) is killing someone, regardless of who he/she was the victim

Exactly, we already have

Homicide
Aggravated homicide
Multiple homicide
Genocide
Homicide without intention

No matter if the dead is a woman or a man, the crime is the same.

Iván

They're obviously not forgiven. I was using an analogy there. The concept of sin doesn't exist to me.

Not stubborn, no.

JJLehto wrote:

There's also the "is it natural?" question:
Which I think it absolutely is.

This is based off gay people I have known that all said it was natural (some were with girls at various times) and while "unnatural" it can happen in nature. Just ask the 2 penguins we saw at a class trip to the aquarium.

In that case I have to ask if it's natural, just the way they are, and we are all from God....why is it bad?
I guess you can get around this by just saying "it's a choice" and not tackle the question LOL

Not to get too much into it, but the Catholic church would say that homosexuality itself isn't bad. The action of homosexual sex would be bad, just as any extra-marital sex would be bad or any non-conception based sex would be bad. Besides marriage being between a man and a woman by Catholic definition, marriage cannot occur without consummation, which would require a sin in the process, which would make an extension of the definition kinda useless. (Yeah there's still contradictions and I'm not supporting this so don't jump on me)

It's philosophically like a guy being born with a predisposition to kick babies in the face. There's nothing sinful in that. However, him walking around kicking babies would be sinful and hilarious.

Edited by Equality 7-2521 - April 16 2012 at 16:34

"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

JJLehto wrote:

Yeah Ivan, if you are against it for religious reasons/think it's unnatural than that's perfectly fine...but can't use the rationale you are trying.

No, it's not buy religious reasons.

I have no problems with marriage between gay, except that:

It's illegal in my country
We LEGALLY define marriage as the legal union of two persons of different sex.

Iván

It's illegal in most countries yet most here disagree with you.