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dr prog 
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 Posted: May 11 2011 at 05:15 |
 giselle wrote:
Of course it's a matter of opinion, and 'definitive' is in the ear of the listener as well as the figures for the record sales, but that isn't necessarily the same as thing as the 'product' being artistically accurate or valid. As far as I'm concerned, the 'guests' you mention were collaborators/assistants in Ian Anderson's projects, not fully-fledged band members as such. If Ian could have gone to the concerts and played all the instruments himself he would have done. He's a clever and talented guy, but it makes it all too one-dimensional. I heard several of these incarnations 'live'. I stand by my opinion - the original band was the best, and in fact, the only 'band' as such. |
Raw Jazzy Blues from 1968 better than the advanced prog folk and heavy rock compositions spanning 1969-82? I don't think so 
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giselle
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 05:29 |
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
Of course it's a matter of opinion, and 'definitive' is in the ear of the listener as well as the figures for the record sales, but that isn't necessarily the same as thing as the 'product' being artistically accurate or valid. As far as I'm concerned, the 'guests' you mention were collaborators/assistants in Ian Anderson's projects, not fully-fledged band members as such. If Ian could have gone to the concerts and played all the instruments himself he would have done. He's a clever and talented guy, but it makes it all too one-dimensional. I heard several of these incarnations 'live'. I stand by my opinion - the original band was the best, and in fact, the only 'band' as such. |
Raw Jazzy Blues from 1968 better than the advanced prog folk and heavy rock compositions spanning 1969-82? I don't think so |
You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. I'm also entitled to mine, and that's the opposite. And I also saw every incarnation 'live', which convinces me even more.
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dr prog
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 06:35 |
giselle wrote:
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
Of course it's a matter of opinion, and 'definitive' is in the ear of the listener as well as the figures for the record sales, but that isn't necessarily the same as thing as the 'product' being artistically accurate or valid. As far as I'm concerned, the 'guests' you mention were collaborators/assistants in Ian Anderson's projects, not fully-fledged band members as such. If Ian could have gone to the concerts and played all the instruments himself he would have done. He's a clever and talented guy, but it makes it all too one-dimensional. I heard several of these incarnations 'live'. I stand by my opinion - the original band was the best, and in fact, the only 'band' as such. |
Raw Jazzy Blues from 1968 better than the advanced prog folk and heavy rock compositions spanning 1969-82? I don't think so |
You're perfectly entitled to your opinion. I'm also entitled to mine, and that's the opposite. And I also saw every incarnation 'live', which convinces me even more. |
You sound a bit old fashioned 
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giselle
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 07:15 |
dr prog wrote:
[QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=dr prog][QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat] [QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat]
You sound a bit old fashioned |
I probably am; I'm not fooled by superficial decoration and organisation that tries to cover for lack of chemistry. It's also easier to fool people via recordings than it is with live concerts. I'd say the later records are obviously far better made than "This Was", but the band wasn't as good to listen to live, unless you are a cut-and-dried fan. And I didn't say the other versions of the band were bad; I said they weren't as good.
You sound a bit set in your ways.
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Passionist
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 07:20 |
dr prog wrote:
You sound a bit old fashioned |
Here, fixed it for ya 
Edited by Passionist - May 11 2011 at 07:21
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giselle
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 08:04 |
Passionist wrote:
dr prog wrote:
You sound a bit old fashioned |
Here, fixed it for ya
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You sound like you need to grow up.
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Jim Garten
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 08:41 |
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Easy people, keep it nice...
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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Alberto Muņoz
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 11:35 |
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Actually i like more the JT from 68-82 than 84 afterwards.
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jean-marie
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 13:03 |
The Tull had many episodes as the Floyd,but most of them are ...........   Just a matter of taste, make your choice and enjoy , i saw Ian and the guies in74 , 76 , 80 , 82 and 84 in Paris and always enjoyed the show though it was more theatratical in the first years
Edited by jean-marie - May 11 2011 at 13:04
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dr prog
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Posted: May 11 2011 at 19:15 |
giselle wrote:
dr prog wrote:
[QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=dr prog][QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat] [QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat]
You sound a bit old fashioned |
I probably am; I'm not fooled by superficial decoration and organisation that tries to cover for lack of chemistry. It's also easier to fool people via recordings than it is with live concerts. I'd say the later records are obviously far better made than "This Was", but the band wasn't as good to listen to live, unless you are a cut-and-dried fan. And I didn't say the other versions of the band were bad; I said they weren't as good.
You sound a bit set in your ways. |
Fooled by ians great compositions?  Tulls songs got better and better. I rate a band on what they put in the studio. They're the bands I'd bother to see live. I have every tull studio track and they definately improved each year from 1968 until 1974. I don't rate them on albums alone though. I rate them on quality of studio songs and in 1971,1973, 1974 and 1982 they had double albums worth of studio songs and many of my favorites were not included on original albums. Warchilds remaster is a much much better cd than what you'd find on vinyl. I like the bonus tracks the most on that cd. Living in the past is full of gems. I love their 1977-1982 era just as much as their 1970-1974 era. So many quality tunes. Even Broadsword is pretty cool although I'd swap Beastie with Too many Too and would consider the full acoustic version of Jackalynn(not the sh*tty version with drums) and Motoreyes for the album too. I tend to listen to this album with bass and treble turned down for a better listen though
Edited by dr prog - May 11 2011 at 19:23
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giselle
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 00:53 |
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
dr prog wrote:
[QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=dr prog][QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat] [QUOTE=giselle][QUOTE=Ozexpat]
You sound a bit old fashioned |
I probably am; I'm not fooled by superficial decoration and organisation that tries to cover for lack of chemistry. It's also easier to fool people via recordings than it is with live concerts. I'd say the later records are obviously far better made than "This Was", but the band wasn't as good to listen to live, unless you are a cut-and-dried fan. And I didn't say the other versions of the band were bad; I said they weren't as good.
You sound a bit set in your ways. |
Fooled by ians great compositions? Tulls songs got better and better. I rate a band on what they put in the studio. They're the bands I'd bother to see live. I have every tull studio track and they definately improved each year from 1968 until 1974. I don't rate them on albums alone though. I rate them on quality of studio songs and in 1971,1973, 1974 and 1982 they had double albums worth of studio songs and many of my favorites were not included on original albums. Warchilds remaster is a much much better cd than what you'd find on vinyl. I like the bonus tracks the most on that cd. Living in the past is full of gems. I love their 1977-1982 era just as much as their 1970-1974 era. So many quality tunes. Even Broadsword is pretty cool although I'd swap Beastie with Too many Too and would consider the full acoustic version of Jackalynn(not the sh*tty version with drums) and Motoreyes for the album too. I tend to listen to this album with bass and treble turned down for a better listen though |
Why should I be fooled? That statement doesn't make sense. We all are entitled to our own opinions, and in mine, Ian couldn't write a real song to save his life. His talents are considerable, but lie in his arranging ability in the main, allied to his excellent playing, singing and all-round musicality. Having said that, he is more of an artisan than an artist. I like what Ian produces, anything he does is bound to be interesting, it's just that I regard it as his solo work, and nothing to do with the original band.
It's indeed fine that you enjoy it, I certainly don't grudge you that, but you mustn't make the mistake of thinking your own enjoyment means that you are correct in your judgments, therefore everyone else is wrong or too old to understand. Actually, as you get older, you're more likely to understand more, not less.
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giselle
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 01:12 |
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Sorry, I read your reply out of context; you were of course referring to my earlier remarks, not to me directly.
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dr prog
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 01:24 |
giselle wrote:
Sorry, I read your reply out of context; you were of course referring to my earlier remarks, not to me directly. |
I don't know of any better prog composer than Ian 
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giselle
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 02:21 |
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Well you already know my views on that, but as I said, we are all perfectly entitled to our own opinions, it makes the world go round.
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dr prog
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 04:18 |
giselle wrote:
Well you already know my views on that, but as I said, we are all perfectly entitled to our own opinions, it makes the world go round. |
When it comes to verse, chorus compositions and lyrics who comes close to ian? Bloody freak he is
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giselle
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 05:09 |
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
Well you already know my views on that, but as I said, we are all perfectly entitled to our own opinions, it makes the world go round. |
When it comes to verse, chorus compositions and lyrics who comes close to ian? Bloody freak he is |
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can actually write songs is miles ahead of Ian in that sense. I've already said how talented Ian is in other ways, We're never going to agree, so why don't you just leave it? Each to their own.
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npjnpj
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 05:53 |
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Just got to jump in here.
In part I agree with dr prog, but at the same time I find that IA lost most of that ability with the release of Rock Island or thereabouts.
After that point I believe that giselle is right.
I find it hard to believe that someone like IA can just seem to lose an ability that made him shine all of a sudden.
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dr prog
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Location: Melbourne
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 08:16 |
giselle wrote:
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
Well you already know my views on that, but as I said, we are all perfectly entitled to our own opinions, it makes the world go round. |
When it comes to verse, chorus compositions and lyrics who comes close to ian? Bloody freak he is |
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can actually write songs is miles ahead of Ian in that sense. I've already said how talented Ian is in other ways, We're never going to agree, so why don't you just leave it? Each to their own. |
Ian is the best composer i've ever heard in rock music. I think you're on a different planet
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giselle
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Joined: March 18 2011
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 08:49 |
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
dr prog wrote:
giselle wrote:
Well you already know my views on that, but as I said, we are all perfectly entitled to our own opinions, it makes the world go round. |
When it comes to verse, chorus compositions and lyrics who comes close to ian? Bloody freak he is |
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who can actually write songs is miles ahead of Ian in that sense. I've already said how talented Ian is in other ways, We're never going to agree, so why don't you just leave it? Each to their own. |
Ian is the best composer i've ever heard in rock music. I think you're on a different planet |
He is the best composer YOU'VE ever heard - what's the matter with you? Can't you accept that other people have a different point of view? And seeing as you want to get personal, you're the one from outer space - you haven't a clue what a song is. I could say a lot more about where you stand in the scheme of things, but I bow to moderation and good sense, as per Prog Archive guidelines. So be sensible and leave it there.
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Jim Garten
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Posted: May 12 2011 at 09:31 |
I think Giselle is maybe taking DP's remarks a little more seriously than they are intended here; I'm sure that as per forum rules & guidelines, DP would not stoop to personal insults.
As you're both relative newcomers to the forum I think we should all leave it there as I'm sure there is no serious insult intended... 
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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