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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 13:53
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Switching off modern AV equipment will save you on average less than a penny a day and will shorten the life of your equipment, which wil ultimately result in a net loss and greater carbon footprint because you will have to replace it more often.


Very interesting claim, Dean - our living room electricals used to be on standby all the time (usual stuff - hi-fi, DVD/TV/Hard-disc DVD recorder/Digibox); are you saying this all only costs about about a penny a day? I was always under the impression the power drain was considerably higher than that.
Modern electrical equipment is designed to be low-energy on standby (that's kind of the point) - the average TV uses less than 1W in standby, using this energy cost calculator http://www.ukpower.co.uk/running-costs-elec.asp 1W for 24 hours equates to 5.6p per month or 60p per year. Your average DVD player is 0.7W in standby, as is your ancient VHS recorder and your Sky box - so the total for all the AV equipment in standby is less than 4W ... or ~20p per month, £2.40 a year or 0.6p per day.

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Energy efficient light bulbs are more expensive to make, buy and do not last anything like as long as the makers would have you think - what starts off being quite dim gets even dimmer with age - your eyes may become accustom to reading by the glow of a fag-end, mine don't Wink  - the newer plug-in replacement halogen lamps are an improvement, but their running costs are higher than florescent. I have replaced all teh low-energy bulbs in my home with good old fashioned tungsten and halogen after Debs fell down stairs - the extra cost by far outweighs the cost of having a broken wife


I'm not 100% convinced on that one - I use these all around the house & can honestly say I don't see them as being significantly dimmer than regular bulbs (which I seem to remember being told once are in fact more energy efficient as heaters, than light sources ); as for longevity, we do have two in the house which were in there when we moved in 17 years ago.
The take time to warm up and get to full brightness (10-20 minutes) - in situations where the lights are only turned on for short periods they never achieve full brightness (they also consume more power during this time). Tungsten bulbs do give out more heat than light when compared to florescent, but I don't believe the 100W==20W, 60W==11W ratios they quote unless the lamps have been warmed up for a considerable period.
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:


At the risk of being an irritating git, I'm confused.com - bottom line, I just want to save money
There is the 20:80 maxim - you spend 80% of your time saving 20% of costs - it is better to spend 20% of your time saving 80% of your costs - look to the areas that consume the most and start there first: heating, cooking, washing. We have ditched the tumble dryer and never use a dish-washer - a microwave is more efficient and economic than the hob.
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 13:56
Here you go: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

So yes, it is costly and just to get an assessment of the wind speed for a year could be tough... I think as technology improves in this area, though, things could work out.


Edited by James - September 01 2008 at 14:03
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:22
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Well I leave my laptop on all the time... I know I shouldn't but I'm on this thing all the time and the energy used from power-ups and power-downs maybe quite big, I don't know.

Besides, it goes into hibernate mode too... but it's unpredictable.
I actually think hibernate-mode is a bad thing on a lap-top. The bearings and voice-coil in the disc drive wear out and as the machine ages the drive takes longer to spin up to speed, causing system errors as the machine comes out of hibernation. It's okay on a spanky new machine like yours, but if your lap-top is more than a year old, I'd disable this feature.
Originally posted by James James wrote:


Re: turbines... I may have got the figures wrong but I know it's a viable option and the turbine does go on the roof, I'm pretty sure it does... my brother is involved with the big turbines at Watchfield and knows about these things, plus he's a Civil Engineer.
All Engineers are civil. Wink
 
Roof-mounted turbines are a) small and cannot power a whole house, b) are terribly inefficient at catching the wind and c) bad for the structure of the house.
 
 
David Cameron had planning permission to fit his microturbine to his chimney stack - bad move and lucky for him it wasn't fitted. Wink
Originally posted by James James wrote:


I know that the National Grid will pay back some of the bill though, if you do have one.

It's still expensive at the moment but the prices may come down in the future.
For the National Grid to pay back some of the bill you have to generate a surplus and you have to generate it in a form they can use - a micro-turbine generates 12V or 24V d.c. which is no use at all - One that generates 240v a.c. at sufficient power levels is a major installation at Wind-farm scales, whereas domestic generation is at such low powers that the inefficiencies of the power transmission lines means that none of that will actually make it to the grid.
 
What you can get if you install a suitably large generator, is a government grant to cover some of the costs of installation.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:23
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Here you go: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

So yes, it is costly and just to get an assessment of the wind speed for a year could be tough... I think as technology improves in this area, though, things could work out.
link not working - I guess they've turned it off to save energy. Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:47
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Here you go: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

So yes, it is costly and just to get an assessment of the wind speed for a year could be tough... I think as technology improves in this area, though, things could work out.
link not working - I guess they've turned it off to save energy. Tongue


It works fine my end, Dean. Wink

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 15:59
^Broken links are a waste of energy.... 
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I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:23
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

The take time to warm up and get to full brightness (10-20 minutes) - in situations where the lights are only turned on for short periods they never achieve full brightness
 
ha ha ha! In an attempt to "save energy" I bought these bulbs last year.......... no good on stairs, by the time you reach the top and switch it off it's STILL dark................ and the downstairs loo Confused you go in, wee, wash your hands, flick your hair in the mirror and just about at that point it's getting light enough to see......... I couldn't find the energy to change the bulb tho, so a full year later we're still wee-ing in the dark! LOL it's great, it's just like camping!
 
When Grandma comes to visit we send her off to the loo with a torchLOL 
 
 
Energy saving my asterix!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:26
Originally posted by Man Erg Man Erg wrote:

^^^
'The Economic Crisis'

It's all a cynical government ploy to make us 'greener' by default.
 
LOL Of course it is........ "GREEN" makes big money!    It's about people control, it's about submission, "Green has become the new red " (to quote an album soon to be released Embarrassed )
 
 
R x


Edited by prog-chick - September 01 2008 at 16:29
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:45
Originally posted by James James wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by James James wrote:

Here you go: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

So yes, it is costly and just to get an assessment of the wind speed for a year could be tough... I think as technology improves in this area, though, things could work out.
link not working - I guess they've turned it off to save energy. Tongue


It works fine my end, Dean. Wink

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind

yeah, now it works...
 
I love this quote:  "In the UK we have 40% of Europe's total wind energy" LOL
 
...and 90% of that is in The Shed,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2008 at 17:18
LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 02:42
lots of varied views, the "not leaving audio or av equipment on standby" thing has been going around for years (one source i read said standby uses the same amount of electricity when the unit is running, but many hifi experts i have heard say  switching things on and off causes a shock through delicate circuitry/components, obviously doing this directly from the mains could cause damage, but the built-in switch should alleviate this to a degree...?) ,  i appreciated Dean's comments as he quotes all his figures, but many are divided on this subject.
 
as for the central heating theory, a heating engineer told me once that a system left on at its lowest setting (at a trickle)  is more efficient during the winter as the house stays "warmed up " - starting the system from cold uses an enormous amount of energy up to operating temperature, whereas turning it up from warm on a really cold day or night is a much easier job for the boiler or immersion heater. if you're still cold you could always do the hoovering or put on an extra woolly..Wink
 
i experimented recently with the petrol saving theory - removing tools and other accumulated junk from the boot hardly made any difference, but i found a big difference when accelerating slowly from standing (keeping to 1500/2000 revs. where possible) and keeping to 30/40mph speed limits - my 1.8 engine guzzles fuel around town (about 15-20mpg) , twice as much when on a long run (35/40mpg). obviously short runs is a big factor, starting from cold guzzles loads of fuel till you reach normal temperature - with petrol at nearly £2.00 a litre it's worth experimenting by driving carefully, i have noticed a 30% reduction in fuel consumption since doing this, but you have to remain thick skinned when dealing with other road users, especially white-van-man!  i might print out a sign to put in my rear window such as "saving fuel - please pass if you're wasting yours" or "observing speed limit , pass if you like - see you at the next set of traffic lights" LOL 
 
 
 
 


Edited by mystic fred - September 02 2008 at 02:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:09
There is a fair bit of disinformation and myth about electrical equipment spread about by environmentalists, possibly because most people don't really understand electricity and power (my Gran believed that she was wasting power if she left an empty socket switched on... but then she also believed that weather satellites controlled the weather and that Slade were a good group).
 
Like the phone-charger myth - Leonardo di Caprio was saving the planet by un-plugging his phone charger when it wasn't being used ... I contacted the Engineers at Nokia and asked them about the amount of power one of those uses when plugged in to the socket but not connected to a phone (as an engineer myself I already new the answer, but wanted confirmation from the guys that actually make the things) - they said it's practically zero.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:13
  I'm a big fan of the British military sweaters, the 'wooly pully' type that fit snug and have reinforced shoulders and elbows  ...warm and toasty Smile








Edited by Atavachron - September 02 2008 at 03:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:47
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

my Gran believed that she was wasting power if she left an empty socket switched on...


Oh I know that one - my gran used to have the TV on but the sound at zero to save electricity... then say how good the singer on Opportunity Knocks was   

Personally, I look forward to the time when everybody has their own personal little wind turbine screwed to the wall, generating enough electricity to power a small lamp, giving just enough light to read their own calculations as to how many years it will take for the miniscule saving to pay off the cost of the installation...

...only to show huge surprise when after a couple of years of constant low grade vibration from their B&Q Electromatic Turbine Deluxe, a high wind causes their house to fall down.

I mean - how gullible do these inventors think we actually are? A wind turbine screwed to a wall?

If it's too windy to light a cigarette in the open, I stand by a wall.. because it's not windy there!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 07:41
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

There is a fair bit of disinformation and myth about electrical equipment spread about by environmentalists, possibly because most people don't really understand electricity and power (my Gran believed that she was wasting power if she left an empty socket switched on... but then she also believed that weather satellites controlled the weather and that Slade were a good group).
 
Like the phone-charger myth - Leonardo di Caprio was saving the planet by un-plugging his phone charger when it wasn't being used ... I contacted the Engineers at Nokia and asked them about the amount of power one of those uses when plugged in to the socket but not connected to a phone (as an engineer myself I already new the answer, but wanted confirmation from the guys that actually make the things) - they said it's practically zero.
Not wishing to sound pedantic Dean, but they did say "practically zero". So if everyone with a mobile did the same as young Leo, the saving may well be worthwhile?
 
Personally I'm puzzled by the statements about the new lightbulbs taking ages to light up. I agree there is a noticeable delay compared to the old style bulbs, but we're talking microseconds. Or are we?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:11
Further on from the credit-crunch question & how it will affect our daily lives, consider:



"One onion ring to rule them all"



The 8:15 from Stevenage is now arriving at platform 3



New game-show...



Does one want fries with that?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:15
Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:




The 8:15 from Stevenage is now arriving at platform 3
 
Ah in my day the Stevenage train always was platform 10 from Kings X .............
 
Chopper, maybe it's the brand, ours take about 5 mins to reach full light up!
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:25
A couple more:



Probably not too far from the truth, actually...



God knows what Graham Norton will do to get by

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 09:14
Originally posted by prog-chick prog-chick wrote:

Originally posted by Jim Garten Jim Garten wrote:




The 8:15 from Stevenage is now arriving at platform 3
 
Ah in my day the Stevenage train always was platform 10 from Kings X .............
 
Chopper, maybe it's the brand, ours take about 5 mins to reach full light up!
 
 
Wow!. Mind you, that could be useful on some mornings when a bright light might be too much for the old eyes after a night on the sauce.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2008 at 10:49
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Not wishing to sound pedantic Dean, but they did say "practically zero". So if everyone with a mobile did the same as young Leo, the saving may well be worthwhile?
Absolutely... even on a national scale it can make a difference, but still not enough to be an economic difference.
 
Assume it is 1mW (it's actually a lot less than that) - so 1,000 people is 1W (the eqivalent of 1 TV on standby), for 1,000,000 people is a 1KW... for the population of the UK (the actual number of mobile phones in the UK is 110% of population) ... 59KW ... £55,000 worth of electricity wasted each year.
 
The "problem" is, that is still peanuts to the generating companies - the demand in the UK at as I type this is 41GW from a maximum capacity of 78GW (www.nationalgrid.com) - so 59 Million mobile phone chargers accounts for less than 0.000001% of that ... which means each person in the UK has to do 1 million times better than that to make 1% difference and 20 million times better than that to meet the 20% reductions we should be looking for.
 
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

 
Personally I'm puzzled by the statements about the new lightbulbs taking ages to light up. I agree there is a noticeable delay compared to the old style bulbs, but we're talking microseconds. Or are we?
Well there is the slight lag when the tube fires, which is much the same as fluorescent strip-lighting, but the tubes themselves do not achieve maximum output until several minutes after starting as the gasses warm up and some compact fluorescent lamps can be as low as 50% brightness at initial switch-on.
 
The manufacturer quoted figures are in the order of 3 minutes - which as Rach pointed out - in instant use situations like stairs and bathrooms is too long - but I from my observations I have seen that older bulbs take even longer to warm up and are not as bright as new ones.
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