The Shed |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 13:53 | |||||
Modern electrical equipment is designed to be low-energy on standby (that's kind of the point) - the average TV uses less than 1W in standby, using this energy cost calculator http://www.ukpower.co.uk/running-costs-elec.asp 1W for 24 hours equates to 5.6p per month or 60p per year. Your average DVD player is 0.7W in standby, as is your ancient VHS recorder and your Sky box - so the total for all the AV equipment in standby is less than 4W ... or ~20p per month, £2.40 a year or 0.6p per day.
The take time to warm up and get to full brightness (10-20 minutes) - in situations where the lights are only turned on for short periods they never achieve full brightness (they also consume more power during this time). Tungsten bulbs do give out more heat than light when compared to florescent, but I don't believe the 100W==20W, 60W==11W ratios they quote unless the lamps have been warmed up for a considerable period.
There is the 20:80 maxim - you spend 80% of your time saving 20% of costs - it is better to spend 20% of your time saving 80% of your costs - look to the areas that consume the most and start there first: heating, cooking, washing. We have ditched the tumble dryer and never use a dish-washer - a microwave is more efficient and economic than the hob.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 13:56 | |||||
Here you go: http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind
So yes, it is costly and just to get an assessment of the wind speed for a year could be tough... I think as technology improves in this area, though, things could work out. Edited by James - September 01 2008 at 14:03 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:22 | |||||
I actually think hibernate-mode is a bad thing on a lap-top. The bearings and voice-coil in the disc drive wear out and as the machine ages the drive takes longer to spin up to speed, causing system errors as the machine comes out of hibernation. It's okay on a spanky new machine like yours, but if your lap-top is more than a year old, I'd disable this feature.
All Engineers are civil.
Roof-mounted turbines are a) small and cannot power a whole house, b) are terribly inefficient at catching the wind and c) bad for the structure of the house.
David Cameron had planning permission to fit his microturbine to his chimney stack - bad move and lucky for him it wasn't fitted.
For the National Grid to pay back some of the bill you have to generate a surplus and you have to generate it in a form they can use - a micro-turbine generates 12V or 24V d.c. which is no use at all - One that generates 240v a.c. at sufficient power levels is a major installation at Wind-farm scales, whereas domestic generation is at such low powers that the inefficiencies of the power transmission lines means that none of that will actually make it to the grid.
What you can get if you install a suitably large generator, is a government grant to cover some of the costs of installation.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:23 | |||||
link not working - I guess they've turned it off to save energy.
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer Joined: July 04 2005 Location: Malaria Status: Offline Points: 89372 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 14:47 | |||||
It works fine my end, Dean. http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/generate_your_own_energy/types_of_renewables/microwind |
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 15:59 | |||||
^Broken links are a waste of energy....
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:23 | |||||
ha ha ha! In an attempt to "save energy" I bought these bulbs last year.......... no good on stairs, by the time you reach the top and switch it off it's STILL dark................ and the downstairs loo you go in, wee, wash your hands, flick your hair in the mirror and just about at that point it's getting light enough to see......... I couldn't find the energy to change the bulb tho, so a full year later we're still wee-ing in the dark! it's great, it's just like camping!
When Grandma comes to visit we send her off to the loo with a torch
Energy saving my asterix!
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:26 | |||||
Of course it is........ "GREEN" makes big money! It's about people control, it's about submission, "Green has become the new red " (to quote an album soon to be released )
R x Edited by prog-chick - September 01 2008 at 16:29 |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 16:45 | |||||
yeah, now it works...
I love this quote: "In the UK we have 40% of Europe's total wind energy"
...and 90% of that is in The Shed,
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Angelo
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: May 07 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 13244 |
Posted: September 01 2008 at 17:18 | |||||
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ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected] |
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mystic fred
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 13 2006 Location: Londinium Status: Offline Points: 4252 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 02:42 | |||||
lots of varied views, the "not leaving audio or av equipment on standby" thing has been going around for years (one source i read said standby uses the same amount of electricity when the unit is running, but many hifi experts i have heard say switching things on and off causes a shock through delicate circuitry/components, obviously doing this directly from the mains could cause damage, but the built-in switch should alleviate this to a degree...?) , i appreciated Dean's comments as he quotes all his figures, but many are divided on this subject.
as for the central heating theory, a heating engineer told me once that a system left on at its lowest setting (at a trickle) is more efficient during the winter as the house stays "warmed up " - starting the system from cold uses an enormous amount of energy up to operating temperature, whereas turning it up from warm on a really cold day or night is a much easier job for the boiler or immersion heater. if you're still cold you could always do the hoovering or put on an extra woolly..
i experimented recently with the petrol saving theory - removing tools and other accumulated junk from the boot hardly made any difference, but i found a big difference when accelerating slowly from standing (keeping to 1500/2000 revs. where possible) and keeping to 30/40mph speed limits - my 1.8 engine guzzles fuel around town (about 15-20mpg) , twice as much when on a long run (35/40mpg). obviously short runs is a big factor, starting from cold guzzles loads of fuel till you reach normal temperature - with petrol at nearly £2.00 a litre it's worth experimenting by driving carefully, i have noticed a 30% reduction in fuel consumption since doing this, but you have to remain thick skinned when dealing with other road users, especially white-van-man! i might print out a sign to put in my rear window such as "saving fuel - please pass if you're wasting yours" or "observing speed limit , pass if you like - see you at the next set of traffic lights"
Edited by mystic fred - September 02 2008 at 02:43 |
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Prog Archives Tour Van
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:09 | |||||
There is a fair bit of disinformation and myth about electrical equipment spread about by environmentalists, possibly because most people don't really understand electricity and power (my Gran believed that she was wasting power if she left an empty socket switched on... but then she also believed that weather satellites controlled the weather and that Slade were a good group).
Like the phone-charger myth - Leonardo di Caprio was saving the planet by un-plugging his phone charger when it wasn't being used ... I contacted the Engineers at Nokia and asked them about the amount of power one of those uses when plugged in to the socket but not connected to a phone (as an engineer myself I already new the answer, but wanted confirmation from the guys that actually make the things) - they said it's practically zero.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65417 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:13 | |||||
I'm a big fan of the British military sweaters, the 'wooly pully' type that fit snug and have reinforced shoulders and elbows ...warm and toasty
Edited by Atavachron - September 02 2008 at 03:14 |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 03:47 | |||||
Oh I know that one - my gran used to have the TV on but the sound at zero to save electricity... then say how good the singer on Opportunity Knocks was Personally, I look forward to the time when everybody has their own personal little wind turbine screwed to the wall, generating enough electricity to power a small lamp, giving just enough light to read their own calculations as to how many years it will take for the miniscule saving to pay off the cost of the installation... ...only to show huge surprise when after a couple of years of constant low grade vibration from their B&Q Electromatic Turbine Deluxe, a high wind causes their house to fall down. I mean - how gullible do these inventors think we actually are? A wind turbine screwed to a wall? If it's too windy to light a cigarette in the open, I stand by a wall.. because it's not windy there! |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 07:41 | |||||
Not wishing to sound pedantic Dean, but they did say "practically zero". So if everyone with a mobile did the same as young Leo, the saving may well be worthwhile?
Personally I'm puzzled by the statements about the new lightbulbs taking ages to light up. I agree there is a noticeable delay compared to the old style bulbs, but we're talking microseconds. Or are we?
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:11 | |||||
Further on from the credit-crunch question & how it will affect our daily lives, consider:
"One onion ring to rule them all" The 8:15 from Stevenage is now arriving at platform 3 New game-show... Does one want fries with that? |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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Wilcey
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: August 11 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 2696 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:15 | |||||
Ah in my day the Stevenage train always was platform 10 from Kings X .............
Chopper, maybe it's the brand, ours take about 5 mins to reach full light up!
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 08:25 | |||||
A couple more:
Probably not too far from the truth, actually... God knows what Graham Norton will do to get by |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 09:14 | |||||
Wow!. Mind you, that could be useful on some mornings when a bright light might be too much for the old eyes after a night on the sauce.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: September 02 2008 at 10:49 | |||||
Absolutely... even on a national scale it can make a difference, but still not enough to be an economic difference.
Assume it is 1mW (it's actually a lot less than that) - so 1,000 people is 1W (the eqivalent of 1 TV on standby), for 1,000,000 people is a 1KW... for the population of the UK (the actual number of mobile phones in the UK is 110% of population) ... 59KW ... £55,000 worth of electricity wasted each year.
The "problem" is, that is still peanuts to the generating companies - the demand in the UK at as I type this is 41GW from a maximum capacity of 78GW (www.nationalgrid.com) - so 59 Million mobile phone chargers accounts for less than 0.000001% of that ... which means each person in the UK has to do 1 million times better than that to make 1% difference and 20 million times better than that to meet the 20% reductions we should be looking for.
Well there is the slight lag when the tube fires, which is much the same as fluorescent strip-lighting, but the tubes themselves do not achieve maximum output until several minutes after starting as the gasses warm up and some compact fluorescent lamps can be as low as 50% brightness at initial switch-on.
The manufacturer quoted figures are in the order of 3 minutes - which as Rach pointed out - in instant use situations like stairs and bathrooms is too long - but I from my observations I have seen that older bulbs take even longer to warm up and are not as bright as new ones.
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