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"Progressive Punk", a new sub-genre on PA?

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 04 2021 at 19:50
Even rate your music which is quite generous in assigning generes doesn’t have pronk

As for now pronk sits comfortably with early punk in existing in the underground

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 01:27
I agree "post-progressive" is the better term, because it's a little bit wider. If it were added (it won't be), I think it wouldn't bring in much influx of new groups, but rather, would be a place for certain bands mostly found in Crossover, Eclectic, and RIO/Avant to be reassigned to. It would also probably flourish a bit more if we added genres by album (another pipe dream, I know), since, for example, KC's 80s albums definitely fit the post-progressive description.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 01:27
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I agree "post-progressive" is the better term, because it's a little bit wider. If it were added (it won't be), I think it wouldn't bring in much influx of new groups, but rather, would be a place for certain bands mostly found in Crossover, Eclectic, and RIO/Avant (and maybe some prog-related) to be reassigned to. It would also probably flourish a bit more if we added genres by album (another pipe dream, I know), since, for example, KC's 80s albums definitely fit the post-progressive description.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 01:40
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

I find the PA site quite limited compared to the interests of the regular contributors here - many of whom have a far broader personal definition of what is prog than PA does. 

Here I must say, I've heard mentioning some albums and bands which could get me a bit worried for the future of the "Progressive Rock" meta-genre.


Edited by David_D - November 05 2021 at 02:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 01:43
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

As for now pronk sits comfortably with early punk in existing in the underground

That counts not so little, as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 02:10
Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I agree "post-progressive" is the better term, because it's a little bit wider. If it were added (it won't be), I think it wouldn't bring in much influx of new groups, but rather, would be a place for certain bands mostly found in Crossover, Eclectic, and RIO/Avant (and maybe some prog-related) to be reassigned to. It would also probably flourish a bit more if we added genres by album (another pipe dream, I know), since, for example, KC's 80s albums definitely fit the post-progressive description.

"Post-Progressive" makes me surely tremble because it sounds like the end of Progressive. So, already tactically speaking, it wouldn't be good in my opinion. Then, it looks like kind of a mess to me to bring a mix of all those different "subgenres". - Even I can see that this label is meant very broad, but that's a problem as well in my opinion because it doesn't say anything specific - except from "the end of Progressive".
As far it concerns the idea of adding genres by album, like RYM does, I find it in it self really good. That's also the reason why I usually use RYM and not PA when I want some orientation about the classification of a band, and specially albums - even I often check both sites to get more opinions.


Edited by David_D - November 05 2021 at 07:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 02:57
If it just got The Stranglers in then I'd be up for it. Green Day maybe as well?

I'm sure there used to be something called 'Indie Prog' on this site but then disappeared. Mansun were categorised as such but are now apparently Crossover prog along with Big Big Train. Obviously very similar bands!!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheLionOfPrague Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 17:10
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Even rate your music which is quite generous in assigning generes doesn’t have pronk

As for now pronk sits comfortably with early punk in existing in the underground


There are several artists which do have both genres in their description. You can go to charts and select artists which have both genres and there is a pretty big list. 

https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time/g:all,progressive-rock,punk/exc:live,archival/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:24
Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Even rate your music which is quite generous in assigning generes doesn’t have pronk

As for now pronk sits comfortably with early punk in existing in the underground


There are several artists which do have both genres in their description. You can go to charts and select artists which have both genres and there is a pretty big list. 

https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time/g:all,progressive-rock,punk/exc:live,archival/


Multiple tagging does take care of such needs.

Personally i wouldn't be opposed to many new subs being added no matter how small.

I do like the tag brutal prog and much of pronk could fit in that description for sure.

However much of the pronk does fit comfortably within RIO or math rock here with the occasional eclectic.

NoMeansNo, Minutemen and other proggier than average punk aren't here at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BarryGlibb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 18:55
siLLy puPPy here a few more to add to your RYM list of Pronk bands:
The Cure
Japan (I know they are here on PA for Prog-related but they are definitely your Pronk genre)
Skids ('80-'81)
Simple Minds (only early 80s)
The Armoury Show
Gorky's Zygotic Mynci

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 19:07
I doubt that a proper punk fan would find many of the bands nominated here punk. The post punk label has "post" for a reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 20:42
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

I doubt that a proper punk fan would find many of the bands nominated here punk. The post punk label has "post" for a reason.


So true. I think that only those of us who love both prog and punk will truly appreciate it.

Cardiacs on the other hand seems to get respect from all across the board since they were the masters of pronk.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2021 at 23:03
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Pronk?

That gets my vote! 

Some of the early solo artists drank deeply of the energy of punk.  Bob Fripp's "Exposure" comes to mind right away, and Peter Gabriel's first solo tours had a punk-rock feel with him pogo-dancing etc.  

Can't forget Eno's contributions as well!  He may have actually invented "pronk" with songs like "Baby's On Fire."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2021 at 00:48
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

I agree "post-progressive" is the better term, because it's a little bit wider. If it were added (it won't be), I think it wouldn't bring in much influx of new groups, but rather, would be a place for certain bands mostly found in Crossover, Eclectic, and RIO/Avant (and maybe some prog-related) to be reassigned to. It would also probably flourish a bit more if we added genres by album (another pipe dream, I know), since, for example, KC's 80s albums definitely fit the post-progressive description.

"Post-Progressive" makes me surely tremble because it sounds like the end of Progressive. So, already tactically speaking, it wouldn't be good in my opinion. Then, it looks like kind of a mess to me to bring a mix of all those different "subgenres". - Even I can see that this label is meant very broad, but that's a problem as well in my opinion because it doesn't say anything specific - except from "the end of Progressive".
As far it concerns the idea of adding genres by album, like RYM does, I find it in it self really good. That's also the reason why I usually use RYM and not PA when I want some orientation about the classification of a band, and specially albums - even I often check both sites to get more opinions.
Look up the definition first. The one I found on Wikipedia makes sense to me. It's not the "end" of progressive, but surely jumping off from it's ideas. Post-Punk did come after the birth of the punk movement, but there are still straight-ahead punk bands making punk music to this day. It's not over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Progmind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2021 at 08:04
love The Stranglers, very original sound, Rattus Norvegicus, No More Heroes, Black & White and The Raven are amazing albums
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2021 at 08:12
Originally posted by BarryGlibb BarryGlibb wrote:

siLLy puPPy here a few more to add to your RYM list of Pronk bands:
The Cure
Japan (I know they are here on PA for Prog-related but they are definitely your Pronk genre)
Skids ('80-'81)
Simple Minds (only early 80s)
The Armoury Show
Gorky's Zygotic Mynci



Appreciate suggestions but how in the world would you ever consider The Cure or Simple Minds as prog?
Experimental? Yes. Prog? No

I own every Cure album and many of the early Simple Minds as well as a few Japan albums.

Sorry but prog related is not what my list is about.

Gorky's Zygotic Mind is not prog either. It's indie pop / folk / neo-psychedlelia

The Armoury Show as far as i know is simply new wave / post-punk
Same for Skids

Someone even mentioned Green Day here. Really? LOL

Y'all need to go back and read the definition of progressive rock!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2021 at 23:17
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Appreciate suggestions but how in the world would you ever consider The Cure or Simple Minds as prog?
Experimental? Yes. Prog? No

Agree on that.
Edit:
Or maybe it's not that simple with all the albums of Simple Minds, as far it concerns "Experimental ", but anyway, at the present state of "Prog", it's not Prog.


Edited by David_D - November 07 2021 at 00:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2021 at 23:22
Not to offend any of you, guys, but "Pronk" seems to my ears and eyes like a kind of junk, not worth Prog. 
Not worth Punk, either.
"Progressive Punk" or shortly, "Prog Punk", that's the words.
Unless, we're talking about that is more Prog than Punk.
Then, it must be "Punk Prog".



Edited by David_D - November 06 2021 at 23:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 01:44
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Not to offend any of you, guys, but "Pronk" seems to my ears and eyes like a kind of junk, not worth Prog. 
Not worth Punk, either.
"Progressive Punk" or shortly, "Prog Punk", that's the words.
Unless, we're talking about that is more Prog than Punk.
Then, it must be "Punk Prog".


any comments to that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Necrotica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 13 2021 at 01:51
I'd say prog punk personally, and I'm actually all for it. Yeah, I know the line is that 70s prog died because of punk, but there were a lot more factors that led to its demise back then. And considering we have stuff like art punk and mathcore now, I do support a prog-punk category for bands like At the Drive-in, Off Minor, and Cardiacs

Edited by Necrotica - November 13 2021 at 01:53
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