Americans Have No Culture
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Topic: Americans Have No Culture
Posted By: Atavachron
Subject: Americans Have No Culture
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 22:36
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I'm no patriotic zealot but I nearly got into a fistfight today over some loudmouth who said this to someone else at an audible volume. He's an immigrant here who is normally fairly nice but has a problem with this "corrupt society". I said "Keep your sh*t opinions to yourself". This led to some shouting, I got in the guys face and told him I'd pull his teeth out. But what bothered me wasn't just his view, it was the fact that he thought he could say it and not have consequences. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're not gonna have big problems when insulting an entire nation with little more than ignorant bitterness about a place with a huge multi-cultural tradition. So what of it? What exactly is "culture" as the term is used today; is it a synonym for 'sophisticated' or does it simply mean ethnic & national behaviors? Most importantly though, what are your feelings on confrontation? Usually no one wants to say anything or get involved-- is that always the best approach? Or is it sometimes important to stand up and say "You're an idiot and I'm not afraid to say it" . ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:04
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Uncultured swine, I bet you don't even watch The Incredible Hulk edit in order to actually contribute to discussion: I'd likely have just shrugged and walked away, because I avoid talking to doofuses as much as possible also for some reason I thought you were from France or Belgium or something |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:05
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^ I did when I was a kid-- good show actually, one of the best comix-based series
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:43
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The US is a multi-cultural society but yes, it lacks that single defining culture, that identity that other countries have, and it's normal considering it is an immigrant nation. Florida for example is the best example for a place where there's no identifiable unifying culture. It has a lot to do with history as I said. And that in turn has also to do with the values certain places tend to show (materialism for example). I noticed that when I migrated and when I have compared the US with the nations of Europe I've visited. Now, whether that,'s good or bad, will also be a matter of personal opinion. I can say I don't love the lack of any character for example here in FL but going north and specially from Virgina up it's another story. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:49
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^ and what about my other questions regarding confrontation versus appeasement ?
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:52
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I normally wouldn't say anything, not out of any sort of moral reservation or misanthropy, but because I'd be super nervous and unable to say anything of value. Generally, if someone's calm and they say something like that as simply a naive observation, I'll say my piece, calmly, if shakily, but I can't handle people when they're emotionally charged. That kind of thing rips me to pieces. In regards to the first part of the topic, if someone wants to see European-exalting "culture," then they best look to Europe. American culture is American culture. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:53
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^ Very honest -
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 22 2014 at 23:59
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>Criticizing American culture while being an immigrant to America. Really. The only thing bad that can be said about American culture is that it is so widespread and widely adopted throughout the world that it's no longer distinctly American. If that could ever even be a bad thing. Edit: Well nevermind the "only thing bad" bit, because there's a lot bad about American culture, but still, blue jeans, Coca-Cola, Hollywood movies, television, etc.. It's pervasive, which may give the impression that it isn't really culture at all. But it is. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:08
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Stoney...!? To be honest it sounds like he was hoping to get a rise out of someone to validate his point that Americans are savages. I say good for you for standing up for what you believe in. I know I can't contain myself when my blood gets to a boiling point. He sounds like an stubborn... t**t, I think they call them in Europe. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:09
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^Some traits yes, nefarious. It seems the bad things about what can be called American culture are the ones that other societies tend to adapt, instead of the good ones.
And yes, I believe an immigrant has it much easier to compare than someone who has been here all time Stonebeard. As for confrontation, there's so much idiocy going around that confronting it can be exhausting, futile, and even dangerous, yes, this for example as part of the negative things about American culture. You never know when you'll find a prick defending his second amendment. -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:10
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^^^and I don't even mind the criticism, it's the arrogant attitude and acting shocked when someone gets angry about it-- I mean at least show some imagination in your foolish assumptions. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:11
| yeah... never mind American culture - people like that make me lose faith in humanity... |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:17
I'm not sure your annoyance is strictly related to any cultural issues David (to paraphrase the late and great comic Richard Jenni: I don't think he's just some country a****le, I think as an a****le, this guy has international potential For me there's two strands to how we might define culture, historical and contemporary: 1 - shared indigenous or localised beliefs and practices 2 - a pacifier provided by those with a vested interest in maintaining that a majority continue to be either unable or unwilling to express their own ideas I'm a Brit who emigrated to Australia (I'm still a UK citizen but a permanent resident and taxpayer of Australia but can't vote in their elections) The popular perception here is that if you are not Australian and criticize Australia you are called a Whinging Pom (there are similar insults for people of other nations) Breaking this argument down, where does it lead us? I mean if I pay taxes and spend money in Australia why can't I criticize their practices and beliefs? I'm picking up my tab for the infrastructure, creating wealth and who knows, maybe imparting the lessons we've learned from thousands of years of history might actually be of some use to a country that is only 200 years young?. Dissent shouldn't be outlawed by a passport, tax file number or birth certificate. Creating a nation where the indigenous population strenuously prohibits the views of those who are deemed 'aliens' is the polar opposite to the sort of multi culturalism Australia pretends it embodies. We also currently have two concentration camps on Nauru and Manus Island for the indefinite detention of all refugees arriving in Australia by boat. (fair go cobber?) Multi Culturalism is one of the most resilient lies the west ever fooled itself into believing as it has demonstrably failed wherever you look in the first world. Minority races clearly don't want to be assimilated into other so called 'parent' cultures and will continue to gravitate together and do the opposite of the old adage when in Rome etc...(It's hideously ironic therefore that there is a Little Italy and Chinatown in every city in the world and that the first thing Brits look for when holidaying in Spain is a Traditional English Pub.  I agree wholeheartedly that it's very important to challenge unacceptable behavior and call it out for what it is i.e. ignorant and inconsiderate but you are also correct that the vast majority would prefer to turn a blind eye in the fear that becoming involved forces them to do the unthinkable (think for themselves) ------------- 
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Atavachron wrote:Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:21
You could be right. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:21
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I can't agree more. I think we immigrants who work and pay our due have earned the damn right to criticize what we think is not right. Sorry if that offends your sensibility Stonebeard. -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:29
Absolutely, but "Americans have no culture" -- it's both stupid and incorrect. What upsets me is the lack of intellectual effort in the statement. I'm not defending my country I'm defending observation and intellectual curiosity: The US has cuisine, music, literature, national sports, all very specifically American. One would have to be brain damaged to not understand that. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:33
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That's also correct. The statement is empty, makes no sense. He who uttered it might have had a deeper idea in his mind but couldn't elaborate on it or was just trying to gain attention or, very likely, was just stupid.
It's difficult to detect an American culture when you live in South FL though. But what you say is true and the further you move from the materialistic swamp of the south of the "sunshine state", the more you get in touch with some of that culture. -------------
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:35
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T slams Florida every chance he gets. It's good and bad k  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:46
North from Broward County (I'd say actually north from Palm Beach County) and east from the Everglades, yes, I'll bash it every chance I have until I finally move north, at least to Orlando, or, better yet, to the north of the US. 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 00:49
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Only a very narrow-minded individual would claim such a thing.
When I visit NYC, I experience nothing but cultural diversity. Amazing people, amazing country. Also, New Orleans is a knockout place. I see American folk with culture everywhere I visit in The States. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 04:00
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American culture http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXy3f6f9DxI ;) -------------  
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 04:03
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I suppose culture means an assortment of behaviour and beliefs that are unique to a particular country or region. Of this I suppose would include food, clothing and arts. I don't really know much about American culture (I've only visited NYC for a couple of weeks) but over in Britain, we have no identity I feel. Britain has always been a melting pot of different cultures that it's sacked and colonised over the years, so I would definitely argue that the country where I live doesn't have an inherent and singular culture. Having said that though, does any nation?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 04:09
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Mayvmbe not a brittish identity but naybe an english, weleshian, scottish etc,
English identity for a norwegian is ale, dry humor and a ironic look at world -------------
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 04:14
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^ This all depends on the individual's point-of-view. We are all born of a particular race. We are all conditioned to 'that' way of life, behaviours, beliefs etc. My understanding of cultural understanding is the willingness to embrace various factors of foreign countries to that which you live. If one doesn't 'accept' certain culture, then I feel that there is a degree of racism involved, or at least, some superiority complex at play.
I don't know sh*t from clay, so don't crucify me, but I believe that any country/race which has a diverse representation of people's from foreign countries, have culture. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 04:38
Good post certainly. I've long held the view that the tensions and frictions we encounter between cultures and races are often caused when the respect and tolerance occurs from one side only i.e. multi culturalism has to be a two way street otherwise it's a dead end. It is unreasonable to expect that you can migrate from say, a devoutly religious society to a secular liberal one and be afforded the same protection from materials that would be prohibited in the former. -------------
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 06:41
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Language is the main element that defines culture for me (and all the rest that come with language).
I guess a better title for your thread David might be "Americans have no common culture".
The "multicultural" tag generally tends to annoy me, but so does a right-out negative statement such as the title, especially if it comes without arguments.
And you might say since English is spoken by all in USA, this defines a common culture, but nay, this is an exception, rather than the rule. And for USA, this is somehow understandable as the native Americans are the minority (please correct me if I am wrong).
I can talk about this forever so I will get back when I have more time.
And yes I do speak out on cultural conversations, confront etc. but you would not want me to do that now, would you
 Thanks for starting such an interesting thread
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Posted By: weetabix
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 06:46
It seems as if for the most time Americans have been in a bad mood.The public in general does not like or understand art. Which speaks volumes about the education system. America shows it's low class immigrant roots.I listen to live recordings for example of ELP,Allman Bros. and the Rolling Stones on US tour. And all i hear manic screams as if the audience is having an epic acid trip with no clue as to what is happening.They have a gun culture, and everything revolves around porn. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 06:58
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^ I never knew weetabix had hallucinogenic properties
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 07:03
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I've never been to America but my perception is that it's got many cultures with as many differences as similarities. Seattle, California, New York, the Deep South, the Mid West etc, my view is that these places are as different as they are similar and it's not really that surprising, given that the country spans several thousand miles, it would be foolish to suggest that such a large and geographically diverse nation would have a single unifying culture. Look at Russia, the western side can be distinctly different to the far eastern end which can have more in common with Mongolia and Northern China. There's also the immigration side of things and that Americans themselves come from a diverse range of cultures. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 07:04
Depends on what you put on them. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 07:33
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IDK I've always said we don't really have much of one. It's never said directly, but isn't capitalism there to do away (to some extent not totally of course) with things like nationalism and culture? In some ways it's good....past nationality, religion, language creed etc aren't supposed to matter here, we're that melting pot, You come here to make as much of a living as you can for your current and future families. Basically our culture is capitalism, which has it's goods and bads, and kind of is an "anti culture" if you get what I mean. Also, we do have a long history of immigration that (despite the sour patches) always end up getting melted in. Honestly, I think it's good we don't have much of a "culture" ! Musically though the US did have a unique culture there: blues and jazz. Sadly neither is relevant today, but we know the mighty influence of both. Also I may be wrong, but I thought experimentalism in music had a pretty good history in America. |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 08:30
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It's a pretty stupid statement but sounds like you need to work more on your anger issues. If something as trivial as that can get you hot and bothered maybe you should just back the f**k off.
Seriously who gives a flying F what someone else thinks. I've lived in the USA for 15 years, I'm a citizen, and have no plans to leave, but some yanks seriously get their panties in a bunch about mindless stuff. And yes I'm critical of my home country as well.
People have opinions, many of them mindless, grow a skin and live with it. ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 08:50
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I think national pride of any kind is a bad idea. Too many people derive their sense of self and sense of worth from where they live or where they were born. I prefer not to think of myself as part of a general group. So the upshot of this is, I don't take any sort of offense at anything on this topic, immigrant or not. As for confrontation, I've never really confronted anybody. I think I'm afraid that once I let my emotions go, I'll lose control and maybe hurt somebody, or that the person I'm confronting will do the same. I grew up in Miami where people carried guns in their cars, and I learned early on not to flip anyone off in traffic or you'd probably get shot. And if you mess with someone on the street, they'll knife you. I don't trust people not to kill me. I keep it to myself, and any anger just fades away given a few minutes' time. Not worth it to me to impose my anger on anyone else. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 08:56
I
agree 90% with this; I just don’t think it is good not to have much of a
culture or, worse, to have capitalism as your culture. Capitalism as economic
system superior to Marxism-Leninism or Fascism is ok; capitalism as the driver
and motor of life and values is not. I think this is the single most despised
element of American culture outside of the US, even though to anyone who has
lived or lives here it is evident that that is a somewhat incorrect generalization,
an exaggeration, too. -------------
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:15
If someone of influence with significant leverage at a sufficiently high political or financial level has an opinion that will directly effect my well being then yeah, put me down for a flying f*ck with all the trimmings. The plankton who annoyed David clearly doesn't fall into this category but are you really naive enough to believe that if racist opinions and their concomitant ideologies founded on ignorance and intolerance go unchallenged they will somehow just politely and harmlessly go away? Pick up a history book and fast track to genocide, pogroms and that tiresome little bohemian corporal who frequented Viennese and Munich taverns at the turn of the century and think twice about that experimental mustache. Tolerate the intolerant at your peril. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:19
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We shouldn’t really conflate culture and race though. They are
not the same thing, not even close. One can criticize aspects of a culture
without being a racist. The opposite though might be more difficult. -------------
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:20
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The idea that any geographical area inhabited by humans lacks culture is absurd.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:23
A bit harsh yeself
 but totally agreed |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:23
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It quite is. Though South Beach would beg to disagree -------------
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:23
I don't believe this from an intelligent and cultured man. Are you saying that culture is a bad or unhealthy thing? What do you consider constitutes 'culture'? Yes, economic systems could be inferred as 'shared behaviour and beliefs' but given the globalisation of the financial markets, such is no longer a localised phenomenon surely? (Socialism is no longer extant in any credible form in the first world) -------------
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:26
You've never been to Wales have you? -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:27
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:29
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No, I'm replying to both of you really (as you both qualify as cultured in my book) -------------
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:30
By being intolerant yourself? Oh joy, what a great place to live.
There is certainly a difference between picking a fight with a lone jackass & taking a stand against organized group intolerance. I'm for the later and against the former.  ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:34
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:35
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:35
I said inhabited by humans not sheep. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:38
Hook line and sinker I'm afraid. You would allow a candidate to stand for election with an anti democracy manifesto in a democracy then feign surprise that if elected, he abolishes democratic elections. Grow up. -------------
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:46
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So now this guy David stood up to in the OP is an actual threat to democracy, running for public office, and fascism now reigns supreme? Damn, I should have made more of a stand on page 2.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:52
Of course not but history tells us that complacency can sometimes be misguided, that's all. -------------
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 09:56
I'm confused. Understandable I guess because I'm not getting the full story here. For example: I can't see that the one quote from him: "corrupt society" equates to the topic title of "Americans have no culture", or even to culture in general. However, since on first reading "Keep your sh*t to yourself" seems to be an aggressive and confrontational response then I guess there was more leading up to the exchange than simply that, and I assume the phrase "Americans have no culture" was uttered at some point in the overheard conversation.
Speaking as an outsider who has spent only 12 or so weeks in the USA over a 10 year period... The phrase "Americans have no culture" can of course be read three ways, and the first and perhaps least obvious is that the guy is saying "Americans are uncultured", and that's a glib generalisation that I'd probably take the fifth on if I had any sense, and then switch-on daytime reality TV programs... The second is that American Culture (art), (i.e. the collection of arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievements that are identifiably American) does not exist - and this is clearly false as others have pointed out. It has no clear identity of course, because that would be a stereotype, but you can identify it as being American.... take for example the humble doughnut (or donut if you must) - as a piece of confectioner's art it retains its German heritage in shape and form (Ich bin ein Berliner), yet once you see a Krispy Kreme doughnut there is no mistaking that it has become something uniquely American, like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and re-runs of the The Dick Van Dyke Show. The third is related to that, in that American Culture (social), as the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of American society, is defined by the various subcultures within, with each retaining some portion of their cultural identity but with some blending around the edges. American (social) culture has been described as a 'melting pot' and a 'salad bowl', and I think both are over-simplistic and for that wildly inaccurate - a 'melting pot' results in an homogenised single identity while each item in the 'salad bowl' retains its individual identity - America is like neither of those. Consider if you will a Tequila Sunrise - at the top you have the Tequila and Orange mix, at the bottom is pure Grenadine syrup, but between them is a graduated blend of the two. From what I have seen, American (social) culture is like that - there is a separation of the individual subcultures that make up the American society, but they have become "Americanised" to the extent that you cannot remove the Grenadine without taking some of the Tequila and Orange with you. What this means is that there is no one single American (social) culture, but wherever you look, and whatever sample you take, there will be an unique example of American culture.
One thing I have noticed over the years, both in real life and here on the PA, is that outsiders have to be very careful if they want to criticise America. You have to choose your words, your subject and your tone of voice very carefully. For the sake of a glib generalisation: American's tend to be quick on the defensive and intolerant of any criticism of their country, its people and, well... everything except their government really (but then only if you're essentially agreeing with whatever they are saying about the current administration). Americans are not unique in that respect, other nationals are also very defensive over any criticism of their native lands. That you would enter into a verbal confrontation over this does not surprise me, it's not something I (or most other Englishmen) would do, but then we are a self-deprecating nation and in the main we would agree with any critic, America is not and would not. ------------- What? |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:02
Agreed. Such usually provokes a knee jerk reaction (and the only nation I have criticised in this thread is Australia, go figure) -------------
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Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:15
Doesn't sound much like a lone jackass to me, sounds like he has a political party supporting him, by definition if he get's elected, people voted for him & he's not lone. You are clearly using semantics to support your argument. I'll look for you in the pub picking a fight with the noisy drunk at the bar to 'save democracy' shall I? ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:18
Agreed, the jackass is clearly not alone -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:32
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 10:35
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The greatest thing about America is that everyone has the inalienable right to be stupid, ignorant and primitive. More cultured societies deal with their nutcases in a far more truculent way (social tiers, old boy networks, meritocracies based on history). America is the land of the extremes, on the same road you will meet the most brilliant minds as well as the dumbest cavemen anywhere. Traditional societies with long histories perhaps have 'culture' , which invariably is based on a long track record of successes and failures. America remains , perhaps only inspirationally a terra firma for those who yearn for a better life. Europeans just know that with every two steps forward there is always one step back. Being such a new role model, the youngish attitude of seeing everything in black or white (no pun intended) is contrasted by the 50 shades of grey suspicions of more experienced societies. This binary , media-fueled view of everything often leads to America's greatest weakness= the inherent right of each citizen to express their views (which is fine) but often adding judgment, accusation and punishment without any depth of proof, any understanding of cause and reason, but mostly with unbridled haste and nastiness (see the OJ Simpson scenario) . Also, I know its a touchy domain but the right to bear arms (in its unprotected current form) is what leads so many to wonder if westerns are really passe ! Quick on the trigger, them there cowboys  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 11:02
Although shared or localised indigenous beliefs and practices is not carved in stone with regards to any definition of culture, it seems readily apparent that our notions of what constitutes culture is prey to the sort of cherry-picking that would distance the likes of venal and crass media exploitation to the hinterland of acceptability versus the more palatable aspirations of any avowedly progressive demographic. Pamela Anderson and Schoenberg both qualify as cultural phenomena and both deserve acknowledgement as such. As to to the value of either we ultimately get the culture we deserve. -------------
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 12:00
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:10
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^ That's so easy to say-- and yes, sometimes I do care what an ignorant jackass thinks or more importantly, says. I don't care or can control what someone thinks nor woul;d I want to. But what you utter, well that's a whole other thing. n You must take responsibility for what you do and say. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:16
I do need to work on my anger issues. But at least I have a spine, a pair of balls to go with it, and can live with myself. "Who care s what someone else thinks" is such a tired old mindless attitude it no longer has any credibility. Think up something new and get back to me. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:28
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:46
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:51
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Yeah, I was a bit confused about what exactly the guy said. I assumed he subscribed to "Murica" stereotypes and that his definition of "culture" consisted mostly of interest (or disinterest, hehe) in European "high" art. ------------- https://dreamwindow.bandcamp.com/releases" rel="nofollow - My Music
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 20:55
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^ That may be part of the problem: clarity. If he'd said "I don't care for the music or food here", that would've been fine.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 21:16
Dear God, I just check still have a spine and my balls & I'm fine living with myself. Do you you have to prove your manhood to be comfortable in your own skin? Since when did not caring what someone else thinks no longer have credibility? Guess I didn't get the memo. Why do I need anything new when the old stuff is still valid. Christ you just full of piss & vinegar aren't you? ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 21:18
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^ Yes, I am that.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:21
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I just returned from a two week trip to US and I would strongly disagree with such a statement based on my experience. FWIW, I found the airport staff at American airports, including the busy O Hare and JFK, much more cheerful and friendly than the downright grumpy Heathrow. Having lived my life in a third world country with a 'rich' heritage and culture, I place a lot more emphasis on those aspects of culture than certain kinds of fine cuisine or art forms which normal people may or may not like. With that said, reacting angrily and defensively to such a jackass also shows you in a bad light, as if you cannot tolerate an opinion you don't like. Far better to question him about the source of his assumptions and silence him when he runs out of arguments, as he probably will. Or if he doesn't (want to) argue, he will withdraw and keep quiet, so either way that works.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:23
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^ Quite correct-- hindsight ... ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:34
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Anger = waste of time, energy and thought. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 23 2014 at 23:37
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^ No I disagree, and a good point to discuss. Anger is as normal an emotion as any other, I don't see how it could be a waste of time, energy and thought (the gallbladder of emotions?). But that aside, are there not times when anger is appropriate, controlled and measured ideally, but appropriate? ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 00:02
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Some people are just too stupid, too ignorant, too irrelevant, or too much a combination of these, to waste time, energy, and maybe even risking one's integrity, to prove them wrong.
The other day I was driving here in a major street when this moron in a pickup truck stops in the middle of everything, goes to the back of his truck, pulls out a gigantic confederate flag, stands it upright for all too see, and then gets into his car again. I felt the urge to just drive by and tell him something, maybe things I wouldn't write here because they would be politically incorrect, but then I said "what for? He is an ignorant with an attitude, he doesn't deserve my time, my energy, and on top of that, brave 'murican that he seems to think he is, he probably has one of 'em guns that are the banner of 'freedom' and goes all cowboy on me". And I drove on. I say this because I've felt the urge to talk (or act) back to morons all the time, but morons are the way they are and they will never change. -------------
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 00:40
Someone's in need of apathy management?  -------------
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 01:34
Oh, for the fool who stated Americans haven't got culture, he could've been a bit more diplomatic and say 'some folks' have no culture...... |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 02:40
This isn't really clarifying what happened and what was actually said, without the full story I still cannot determine what the phrase "Americans have no culture" means in this context. If English is his second language he could have meant Americans are uncultured rather than you don't have a culture, and to the rest of the world Americans can appear to be just a little too loud and under-informed at times. But it seems this guy is going to wind you up no matter what he says.
I'd probably respond with - "Correct, we stole it from every country we ever owned, (and that's just how corrupt we are)" - remember the French call us Perfidious Albion and I don't recall ever hearing an Englishman refute that. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 02:59
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^ That's the calm, rational response, and not at all what I was interested in. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:07
At SF airport the friendly staff kindly pulled me from the back of a very long queue and cheerfully re-arranged and re-packed the contents of my luggage in a more tidy and ordered fashion before sending me merrily on my way. I can recommend dressing-up as a Gothic Hippy if you want to be fast-tracked through airport security. And yes, everyone at Heathrow is a grumpy sod. ...having spent too many hours in too many airports they all tend to blur into one. I do however dislike the intrusive unfriendliness of the USA's security checks - I'm surprised they don't take DNA and urine samples before letting you in. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:10
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^ Give us time.
------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: *frinspar*
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:13
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This is all wrong. I don't believe this even happened for a second. If he was a real American, regardless of where he came from, he'd have said, "Americans has no culture." We're nothing if not willfully and, often, gleefully, ignorant of the primarily accepted language of the land, first and foremost. And he'd have tweeted it. With his left hand. In heavy traffic. While turning left. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:26
Then what are you interested in? What was it exactly that pushed your buttons? I am struggling to see what caused such an aggressive response from you. To react as you did (and will continue to react), you must have interpreted what he said in a certain way. What was that? Did you believe he meant that Americans are uncouth and uncultured, that the less-than-flattering image of American culture portrayed in reality TV programmes is an accurate representation of the nation as a whole? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:39
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^ Again, that was part of the problem, it was unclear. But he's as responsible for saying what he means as others are for trying to interpret it. And he speaks quite well actually, has an accent but is well versed in English. This guy is thicker than I may be describing him and blunt force seemed the more effective tool. I do courteous diplomacy as a rule but shock treatment seemed due. But I think you're probably right, this guy is bugging me on some deeper level and probably best to ignore it. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 03:55
While I mentioned Heathrow, in my mind I compared the friendliness of staff in those American airports with those back in India, where everybody wears this permanent scowl, no matter the reason or season. It is considered insane to smile at a stranger in India so to that extent, America was a refreshing change while Heathrow felt a bit more familiar (perhaps also because many of the airport staff were of Indian or sub continental origin and old habits die hard). I did find the security check intrusive. But on the other hand, we live in fear of terrorist attacks all the time here and find the security procedures very lax compared to USA. My grandpa's eyedrops (packed in hand baggage) easily cleared the security check at Mumbai but Heathrow nabbed it and took a long time before they let us go. Didn't take any bribes and didn't harass us, though.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:13
I've never travelled to India but I understand from my colleagues that do that bribery is a matter of course when passing through Indian airports, they have to take more "corporate gifts" such as logo-ed pens and key-rings than they need just to get through security. On one visit to Bangalore the payment was taken in cheap cotton bags with the company logo on that they were going to give out at a trade fare for people to put brochures in... the irony being those bags were made in India then shipped to the UK for printing... ------------- What? |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:15
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I think America has a great culture, be that a pretty young culture. The 40s and 50s gave away two of my favourite things in jazz and the beatniks, but then again those are infinitely small pockets within the humungous parka coat that is the US. That's your strong suit though. The 1000s of different peoples that make up the country. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:21
Surprisingly, we didn't have to pay anything this time when we returned home with plenty of goodies from USA. Maybe because Mumbai airport is now under private management and they don't want to lose money because it takes too long to 'turn around' passenger traffic. Otherwise, people used to reserve a couple of hours after arrival in an Indian airport for baggage collection and customs harassment. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:28
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What you people need is your own boat. Cut the airports out of the equation, swoosh! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:29
Yeah, and good luck getting a 'licence to ride it around the sea unless you are a terrorist. 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:34
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Make that an invisibility cloak instead then:-P ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 04:39
| Hahar - and be careful of the Pirates who will bump you off and take your goodies..... |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 05:49
The US gave way for quite a bit . Whenever I speak of the US I am of course talking about the US of the People not Corporations. Here are some examples   Check out those nice zoot suits, eh? We have no culture, smh!
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: weetabix
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 06:23
| America has come along way from the world saying, all you need is love, to HipHop and "rap" screaming "You filthy Ho" Rap and hip hop never got out of the 1980's any way. It seems like blacks had found something hiphop and rap' whites won't go near, and even if it is sh*te music, the youth hold on to it. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 06:24
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Different strokes for different folks eh? ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 07:02
| ^^^ Indeed. I don't really like rap/hip hop but hey, if somebody else does, great. For Afro Americans in 1970s New York, it probably played a similar rock as rock for whites in the 60s and was an outlet of expression. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 07:20
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Then where does Eminem sit ?? He ain't African-American, and he's not behaving like a white folk, so that makes him yet another try-hard dick in my books.
In fact, give me DMC or the Beasties over Eminem any day..... |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 07:24
| Or maybe it simply reflects that, like blues, hip hop has grown from what was essentially an Afro American music to something more widely embraced and liked. Psy is neither white nor black, in fact he is just Korean. Um, I don't think we get to choose the culture of our time, it just happens and our like or dislike of it has little bearing on whether it is good or bad. And to repeat a point I made, to me the ability of a person to be at least considerate to another who has brought no harm to him is a more important reflection of culture than whether he listens to classical or hip hop. If one is a classical aficionado and terribly arrogant and rude, I don't think I could respect such a person or regard him/her as cultured. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 10:27
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Friendliness is ok but I don't like the extreme, kind of hypocrite, ultra-friendliness of some people; I feel like they're trying to always sell me something. -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 10:29
| Especially if they are colleagues that would stab you in the back to get ahead. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 11:08
Not at all, guv'! I have been to the nadir and climbed back into the sunshine. My nature is actually quite sensitive but learned from tragedies to master the negatives and transform them into positives. Anger is a waste of time because its ultimately nothing more than a self-imposed decision. (I can explain further, should you wish) Me apathetic? My goodness Exit, you are one of the wisest men here, have you ever read any of my reviews? Perhaps someone is in need of a little more Buddhist philosophy?
 ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 16:34
OK, calling you apathetic was probably unwarranted but I was just pointing out that unchallenged bad behavior can escalate to become a much wider ranging social malaise. Parents who fail to control their children is a good example of how ignoring bad behavior can lead to some uber obnoxious adults. Destructive anger is clearly no use to man nor beast but it is anger that serves as the catalyst for much positive change and the righting of many civil wrongs. You're right though, I do have a short fuse but at least I'm not a suicide bomber for a peace loving religion -------------
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 16:48
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I think thinking that words don't have consequences is pretty immature, and we all know that's a lot coming from me. And I think complaining about your corrupt society, regardless of how true that may be, is pretty ironic when he's an American.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: May 24 2014 at 16:55
I get the impression that you've barely listened to any rap before, and that you're probably kind of racist. |