JAZZ vs CLASSICAL
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: General Music Discussions
Forum Description: Discuss and create polls about all types of music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=96624
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 09:24
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Topic: JAZZ vs CLASSICAL
Posted By: VOTOMS
Subject: JAZZ vs CLASSICAL
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 07:30
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I listen to a lot of classical stuff, but I'm much more into the complex/technical/avant-garde jazz composers. I studied musical modes. Classical music is the primary element, but the study of scales and modes after jazz expanded the musical maps forever. What could I be without any blue note?
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Replies:
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 07:32
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Classical. Pure jazz is boring.
------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 07:34
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Not very familiar with these genres, but, in general, I prefer jazz. ------------- 
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Posted By: antonyus
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 07:46
| Classical. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 08:05
| Classical music is my life blood. I consider The Symphony to be the pinnacle of musical expression. |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 08:07
Mother and Father of Prog. Rock was there only to pepper the mating 
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 08:31
| I listen to more jazz than classical by far but like both. |
Posted By: javajeff
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 08:34
| I chose classical, but I really enjoy both equally. I could have easily flipped a coin since I would not be unhappy with either choice. |
Posted By: genbanks
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 08:43
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When I was a child I used to listen classcial music. Even I like it, specially the powerful one, bombastic and symphonic. Beethoven is the greatest one for me, some of his symphonies or Tchaykovsky. For example 1812 Overture. Some Overtures of Wagner or Verdi, etc....
About Jazz, I didn't listened so much, and I preffer when it is fusion jazz, cos siems to be more organic. If not it's too anarchical for my taste.
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Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:10
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I prefer stuff influenced by jazz. Not opposed to classical though.
------------- https://twitter.com/ProgFollower" rel="nofollow - @ProgFollower on Twitter. Tweet me muzak. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:21
| Jazz |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:28
Yes, same case for me. But if you're asking me whether I listen to music influenced by one more than the other, I'm not sure I'd have an answer to that. |
someone_else wrote:Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:46
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I never really got into Classical but there's some stuff I like, Jazz on the other hand I really love although I have taken a break from it for the past few years. |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 09:52
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 10:04
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Love both, own very few of each though. ------------- |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 10:07
The thurst of your idea is alright, but in general, this is a bad question to ask.
Classical music is, at the very least 700 years old, and there is history for it, and what is called "jazz" is really just very new and probably only about 75 years old or so.
Now remember that "recording" allows for us to have some "history" of these things, and "jazz" is simply another form that counters what classical music had.
We do not really have a "popular music" history that runs 700 years, and that makes the ability to look at "jazz" with a much better idea, really difficult.
"Classical" ... is the ONLY history we have! As of "today", we're not adding about 75 years or so of jazz history, and about 60 to 65 years of rock music history, and (hopefully) these will change what is called "music" and its history FOREVER in the future.
In many ways, we're a part of the time that changed history, and we can attribute it to electricity and the recording! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: LSDisease
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 10:13
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Jazz is more than 100 years old
------------- "Du gehst zu Frauen? Vergiss die Peitsche nicht!" |
Posted By: Utnapishtim
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 10:46
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Classical... more similar to Prog...many artists and bands have rearranged classical music. Also the musical studies of 70s Prog Rock bands was classical...
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Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 11:17
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Classical.
-------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: Xonty
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 12:17
I'm confused, is this the question or is it the one listed above the poll options? (Which would you listen to for the rest of your life)
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Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 12:22
No, it's not the question. It's the reason of the thread creation. I assume you will not choose something not so influential in your life there. Both, classical and jazz are very influential for me. But jazz, even not so historic, has the differential point that I'm always searching in my songwriting.
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 12:37
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Jazz I suppose, but I'm not crazy about it.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 15:28
My long date favourite of my favourites: No comments, words are limited. -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 15:55
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Why is this in Prog Polls I grew up in a very rock-oriented household, and had a very minimal exposure to either of these genres. Luckily a lot of the rock my parents listen to is progressive; Rush, Yes, Kansas, Dream Theater, some others. And from those bands I found other Prog Rock band, some implementing a lot of jazz and or classical themes into the music. This made me a bit more eager to listen to jazz. Classical, however, for some reason is not as much my cup of tea. I think it may be because of the American society's attitude towards classical works. Aside from soundtracks, really all the classical you hear these days is used in a TV show or whatever, either to make something seem all fancy and posh, or to emphasize the fact that an old character is old. I grew up never hearing classical music as music, but as a novelty. Still trying to get into it ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 15:58
| I loooooooooooove bebop |
Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 16:08
They're both great, but classical gets my vote. I might get thrown out of my master's program if I said otherwise 
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Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 16:12
| Saxophone > everything. Sounds like elephants. That's ridiculous, funny and full of love. That's why I love the sax. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 16:18
------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 16:28
| But every metal head listen to classical here, and I never meet any jazz fan out of sao paulo. Brazil here. And classical is stronger than jazz. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:08
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Can't choose, no vote. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:25
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Jazz ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:39
Arturo Toscanini, for example is almost completely unknown to young classical music fans, and that is a crime. Wilhelm Backhaus as pianist? Wil who? These great artists died a long time ago,mind you, but their greatness has been recorded in sound and video recordings. I wish there was something i could do to bring that to the ears of smartpatrol and many others. |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:58
------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 18:51
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I don't like Classical music at all and traditional Jazz is just as bad, but thankfully in the late sixties Jazz got a jolt of electricity and I love it. An easy choice for me. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 19:09
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Jazz, but like mentioned by others - not a fan of straight-ahead.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 20:06
If I were you I would start with some contemporary, more dissonant or avant-garde-ish classical works. You would probably enjoy many 20th century composers. Arnold Schoenberg, Benjamin Britten, Bela Bartok, George Crumb, etc. http://zdaniels.wix.com/zachdaniels" rel="nofollow - This guy has composed some really good classical/neoclassical stuff that almost sounds like progressive rock sometimes. A bit of a plug since he's one of my good friends at university, but I've always thought his music had some of the prog aesthetic in it and would appeal to the people here. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 20:08
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Classical for me, especially if I had to listen to it for the rest of my life! Jazz is great but at this point in my life classical music speaks to me more, and besides, there's centuries' worth of music in the classical tradition to listen to with a ridiculous amount of variety whereas although jazz is definitely a diverse genre is hasn't been around long enough to match classical music in that regard.
------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 21:20
Agreed. A lot of friends of mine listen to classical much more than myself, but used to close their minds with Mozart and beethoven. there are a lot of great and underground classical composers, even into experimentalism. But again, I can't exchange any classical piece for my sweet Coltrane. |
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 15:58
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I like Classical more than Jazz.
------------- When he rides, my fears subside. For darkness turns once more to light. Through the skies, his white horse flies. To find a land beyond the night. |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 16:18
Regarding upbringing, three of my immediate relatives are jazz musicians, and I grew up hearing jazz all the time. Because of this, I was kind of numb to it. A year ago, I would have chosen classical, no problem. But these days, I have grown as attached to jazz as I am classical. Both genres, to me, are goldmines for a lot of great music. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 09 2014 at 18:53
| I'm afraid I don't know nearly as much as I should from either. Even less from Jazz. However, for whatever little I know from them, I much prefer classical, and that one I would much more gladly explore than Jazz. Still, I have some admiration towards jazz, and I really love when prog has some jazz elements to spice it up. |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 02:26
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Classical, because although I like both good compositions and good improvisation, I prefer good composition. I'd rather not choose, though, because I do like the looseness, the freeform of jazz. But when I have to choose... classical it is.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 05:21
For the rest of my life?  No vote.
That reminds me of how well classical elements were integrated into Hammill's work on Over. (Check out "This Side Of The Looking Glass".)
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Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 05:26
| First post edited, for the sake of the thread |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 11:42
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After prog rock, jazz and classical are my next two favorite genres, in that order. I have to give it to jazz because I more of it in my collection.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 13:42
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This is a really odd poll, purely for the reason that there is no dichotomy between the two: Jazz harmony and classical harmony have practically no difference, only different terminologies Both jazz and classical have an improvisation element, the only different being is that because of modern teaching methods, classical style improv is now almost a dead thing Both jazz and classical utilise syncopation Both jazz and classical have been known to utilise the same instrumentation Jazz and classical both pay enormous attention to articulation and dynamics Both require a broad sense of melody to pull off convincingly I could go on, but really, they are too similar to separate. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 14:20
But as I've said before, I don't really like separating genres based on physical characteristics, but on the traditions from which they come. It's hard for me to determine, based on physical characteristics, where genres start and end, so this makes it easy for me to separate them and just roll with the punches.  |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 14:50
You're half right. They do have different traditions, but they essentially come from the same sort of thing. Classical music evolved from European folk music and Medieval religious choral music (which if you think about it is still folk music). Jazz evolved from blues and African American folk music. Both came out of abject poverty and oppression, and it wasn't until Jean-Phillipe Rameau that Classical music theory became solidified as an actual academic thing. It's also worth noting that most classical composers did not necessarily live as aristocrats themselves, more worked FOR aristocrats, and thus after reading the biographies of Bach, Mozart, Purcell and Telemann I can deduce that they also lived as the proletariat. I agree with you that it's wise not to separate genres based on the physical content, as it often creates boundaries so blurred that they may as well not exist. Tradition is probably the only effective way to do this, but heirarchising music would prove a bit silly because of this as you'd have to heirarchise them by tradition, which is an ignorance unto itself. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 15:00
what a point... Youre right. But Im still with jazz in this poll. Classical is what i like to listen to when im home, paying full attention to my music. And jazz, i can listen to jazz the whole day, different sub genres of it, including ones that needs my full attention too. As you said, i know the similarities of it, and i stil love both. Have i ever said i hate replying by cell phone to the PA? |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 15:18
Just a note: when I stated that Classical music started from philosophy in math I was thinking earlier— the tuning system, for instance, and the Greek/Roman philosophies of sound. Jazz really didn't even start with that. It was the rhythm/feeling/language of what they played with no mathematical strings attached. Indeed they both came from folk music, but those folk musics were inherently different because of the cultures from which they arose. Poverty and oppression was indeed present in both, however. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: January 10 2014 at 17:41
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Classics is melodic. Jazz is more about the playing. Classical for me for sure ------------- All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 04:20
Regarding the RYTHMS (basic element of any music), it's the soul of any african derived musical genre, no other one can be better developed and explored. On the other hand, for the real FAN of Classical Music, the soul is in the whole MELODY, pushing it's complexity and deepness to an infinite level of expression.
------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 04:46
| I actually used to be more of a jazz guy. At this point though, it doesn't even seem fair to compare other music to classical. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 09:55
Then there's this -  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 10:04
More than agree with you, thanks for making me realize it's a meaningless comparation, You really put an end to this question. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 11:40
What on earth are you talking about? Have you ever heard Sarah Vaughan, Stan Getz or Chet Baker? What about Miles, Jan Garbarek, Kenny Wheeler and Wynton Kelly? Regarding the post above me... Let's just remember that we are comparing over 500 years of music to only 100 years of music. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: January 11 2014 at 20:35
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The responses to this question really surprise me. It seems that the pregheads' facade of open-mindedness has been broken. As for influence, rock music itself is linked much closer to jazz, since both genres were formed from blues music. Progressive rock may follow classical music structures, but in my opinion, the use of other basic elements of music such as rhythm, melody and harmony is much closer to that of jazz music. I am currently studying both genres, primarily jazz. Although I started as a classical musician, I soon fell in love with jazz music and decided on this as my career path. I have only just gotten the opportunity to study jazz as my primary genre, but I am already very knowledgeable on both genres. Although I have an undying love for classical music, jazz is definitely my thang (along with rock music of course). Jazz for moi. ------------- I am currently digging: Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz! Please drop me a message with album suggestions. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 04:58
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The Mystical: Where do you study?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 05:10
| Classical is the type of music I listen to most these days; I listen to a bit of Jazz on Radio 3, but it's never a genre I'd own a collection of. |
Posted By: I-Juca Pirama
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 09:07
| Since I was a child I listen to classical and I started listening to jazz very recently, so... |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: January 12 2014 at 17:08
| Classical beats out jazz hand over heels for me. The sonic nature of it has a much stronger appeal to me than jazz, as does the feel of it. Also, I grew up listening to classical and it strikes feelings of youth and nostalgia in me that jazz at this point is not able to do. |
Posted By: Neroon001
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 01:51
| not really sure how to answer.do you like prog with a tight structure with repeating themes with highly trained/educated musicians and not so much for soloing on various instruments or with a more personal touch with an equal musician who can express himself within the context of the music that is composed ? I am not saying which is better but what do you prefer or realize how close they are hand in hand listen to any Ellington suites or Mingus albums and hear for yourself.Or listen to Miles Davis chances are you will here him quoting several classical composers in several of his solos.So what do I like depends on my mood at the time I guess, in my living room I have posters of Miles , Beethoven,Zappa ,Sinatra ,& The Allmann Brothers if that gives any clue to what I like to listen on any given day.Would love to have a poster or either Universe Zero or Art Zoyd or both for that matter along with a Coltrane ,Sun Ra,Jimi Hendrix,Cecil Taylor ,& Ellington if I had the wall space.So I tend to listen alittle of each but on most days would prefer the soloist who is adept on his-her instrument who can express a solo with a personal flair to him without being a bombastic idiot taking us on apersonal tour of his or her tricks that has been learned.Less is more or so they say |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 04:41
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Classical music is orchestral music wriiten arranged and recite. God help anyone who deviates from the norm. I recall Evening Standard headlines when Pavarotti sang 2 bum notes.Catastrophe. Jazz is slightly different. While it's only about 1 /6 of the lifespan of post-Renaissance era classical it is improvised based around the head and a some times 2 chord sequence which is repeated and redeveloped often. Different veriosn of Good Bait can be done by many in all sorts of ways and they are fine. If you want to hear a band of virtuosos operate check a Miles Davis band (the second quintet is recommended) but all his eras have considerable value. Rock and prog rock has close relationships with classical music and the introduction of fusion (Miles is best and then his former employees McLaughlin, Zawinul, Hancock et al contribute amazing music - but Miles is the most out there and at times the most intellectual (not that that meant much in sales). I mean this is the guy that released differant takes of So What? on 4 or 5 albums in a row. Complaints? Not me. Structure and form versus improv. Different musics exist to achieve things some others canto or do not. Jazz is a more sophisticated blues (it's art rock arm). Classical is the art rock level of old harvest, country and folk tunes. Art rock is the musical ambition of rock, itself a fusion of roots music. The only real difference is that only with rock can you be really crap if you are really good, or really good if you are not. (ELP versus the Sex Pistols). Imagine (if you can) all that talent and elctricity (ELP) is ... no good becuase they did not play down to a lowest common denominator. Unlike Rotten's crew. They all charged the same for their records though. Rock and roll.... Back to jazz and classical (or ELP if you want a good combo) take the rehearsal take of Coltrane's Ascension. It's much like the final take giving lie to the fairly understandable thought that these guys (Clotrane's virtuoso friends) made a bunch of noise on the spot. Not so. It was rehearsed and practiced. This and Thelonious Monk might be just why the classical world often dislikes jazz. Then there is Duke Ellington- jazz's classical composer. Although Scott Joplin should also be mentioned in that light. Always regarded Take The A Train as the actual US national anthem. Especially after Jimi Hendrix sort of deconstructed the original. Think how that will go down at the Super Bowl, people playing that rather than singing Key's song. Back to classical and jazz, I do improvise on themes now and then... I recall listening to Ludwig's Aspassionata sonata once I coud have sworn I heard a brief blues lick. Was that the 13th or 7th interval in there I wondered? To pick one genre is impossible, If the question were serious I'd be derogatory. Surely this is not so.  Anyway if you really want someone to throw a spanner in that works most effectively - ladies, gentlemen and progheads I give you Frank Zappa, the best combo of all these worlds that is not Miles Davis. And fun as well. Shame they are both dead but they have a lot of records for us to get... P.S. No vote but a veto. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 06:41
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I don't enjoy listening to virtuosism solos in any kind of musical instrument. For me, the artistic value of a piece of music I enjoy is in it's composition, regardless of having improvisation or not having it in that music being played. I'm thankful to Classical Music for it's contribution to the so said "golden era" of Prog Rock. After all, as presdoug said: "Classical music is my life blood. I consider The Symphony to be the pinnacle of musical expression. " I make mine these words. Even listening Classical Music for the rest of my life I'll be not yet very knowledgeable on it. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 07:53
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 08:01
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Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 08:14
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Chalk v Cheese Cheese V Chalk . Pointless V Whatever Whatever V Pointless . etc etc etc ------------- 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 13 2014 at 09:05
We have to be careful with that melody stuff.
Pretty soon it will be said somewhere that "melodic" is MUSIC, and anything else is not! Which means a lot of jazz will bite the dust?
Not good ... not good! And how many modern composers will also bite the dish?
Melody, in my estimation, has nothing to do with it. In both cases, it is EXPRESSION. One could say that jazz is more "personal" whereas it's hard to think that "classical" is a personal experience, now that all of Mozart has a "story" that you are supposed to follow to understand the melody, and the same for Mahler or Beethoven!
JAZZ is still, in its infancy! AT LEAST, as far as we know, because I find it highly doubtful that composers over the years did not do different things that we have never heard or understood, and the ole church might have something to do with that as well, since music that was not "melodic" and "praising the lord" used to be burnt, trashed and considered ebil fora long time.
The 20th century gave us RECORDING, and this has, forever, changed the history of music, and what is out there. I klinda believe that there was "jazz" there before, but it was considered pedestrian and not classified as music, and appreciated in the higher circles of society that controlled the arts for at least a millenia!
A little history of the arts, totally opens up this thread, and helps understand music better! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: January 22 2014 at 15:43
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http://www.classicfm.com/concerts-events/gramophone-awards/news/genesis-legend-steve-hackett-2013-gramophone-award/" rel="nofollow - http://www.classicfm.com/concerts-events/gramophone-awards/news/genesis-legend-steve-hackett-2013-gramophone-award/ Thank You very much Steve Hackett for your MAJESTIC classical tracks!! I make here a special mention also to the fabulous track "The Red Flower of Tachai Blooms Everywhere" from the album Spectral Mornings. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: January 22 2014 at 15:52
^  So, your vote is "classical", right? 'Cause otherwise you are posting in the wrong thread, dude. 
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