More pronunciation: right/write
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Topic: More pronunciation: right/write
Posted By: refugee
Subject: More pronunciation: right/write
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 10:40
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My last thread here (the Ian-thread) was a big hit. Now I have a problem with Norwegians saying that the "w" in "write" is pronounced. I tell them that it isn’t; "write" is pronounced exactly like "right". Am eye write?
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Replies:
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 10:47
You're absolutely rite.  ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 12:39
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Maybe we should create one thread about English language problems instead of starting a new one for every issue?
------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 13:57
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Left! I mean, right. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 15:01
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Silent w
Although I think it is rather good there are people willing to bring back the (presumably) original pronunciation. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 15:24
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Actually I do pronounce the w....kind of. I know it's there. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 16:01
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Never really thought about it, but I do pronounce the 'w' as well.
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 17:20
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Of course the 'W' is, or was supposed to be, pronounced. That's why it's there. Just like the K in Knudsen and the X in xylophone. There's no such thing as "silent" letters. It's absurd. Why use them if they're silent when another indica would serve. The Norwegians are right. |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 18:09
Tell this to the French.  ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Atavachron wrote:Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 19:19
Indeed: at the very second I read Atavachron's post, I started to laugh in a most sardonical way, a bit a la "Mwahahaha!" |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 19:28
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^ I guess he's kidding. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 19:42
No I'm not kidding, and I wouldn't tell that to the French anyway because it would be rude ( ) and also I suspect many of their "silent" letters only appear, or have mutated, into silence. I took French, there's nothing silent about it. Subtle, but not silent. |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 29 2013 at 19:51
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How is pronounced the sentence "Wright, write the right rite."? |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 00:52
You are welcome! ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 09:06
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Thanks for your answers, everyone! I also asked my English friend Caz in Ipswich, and she wrote: To answer your question regarding “right” and “write”, you’re correct the pronunciation is the same for both words.
No silent silent letters? How do you pronounce "knight" and "psalm"? Or "Close to the Edge"? ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 09:10
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^ Thanks, I did not know "psalm" is pronounced as [ sa:m]. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 16:27
You would - or were supposed to - pronounce 'knight' with a very subtle "k" at the beginning and an equally subtle "gh" in the middle, just like you pronounce 'sword' with a subtle "sw" sound. Again, that's why those letters are there. If you pronounced 'knight' with no "K", how is someone supposed to know you don't mean 'night' ? Sure context plays an important part but it's not everything. Language is not unlike math in that way, it was meant to be very precise. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: June 30 2013 at 17:09
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First, pronunciations change over time. Knight In older varieties of English, knight was pronounced (roughly) k-neekht. Now, the k is silent. I don't know for sure about write, but I assume it's a similar thing. Second, pronunciation varies by regional dialect. I'm from the American south, and while I don't have a strong southern accent, I was raised with no one pronouncing the "h" in which, when, where, etc., "pen" and "pin" being homophones and accenting the first syllable rather than the second in words like "umbrella" and "thanksgiving." There is really no right and wrong when it comes to pronunciation. If the Norwegians want to slip a little w in at the beginning of write, wrong and wring, it doesn't bother me, although it's not something I've heard in any of the dialects with which I am familiar. In most American/English dialects, write and right are pronounced the same. ------------- 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 05:24
-------------  
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 05:30
| I gnu ewe wood say that. |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 06:57
 "You silly English K-NIGGETS!" ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 06:57
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Many silent letters modify the following syllable in a subtle way, this is not the same as a consonant blend (as in "th" or "ph") which modifies the pronunciation of the consonant itself. In words beginning "Kn" the "K" serves to harden the "N" sound and soften the following vowel, but this is so subtle in modern pronunciation as to be lost, as Ian says of the "w" in "write" - he sort of pronounces it, he knows it is there.The "K" in "knight" does modify the word pronunciation, it is just that the modified pronunciation sounds exactly the same as the unmodified pronunciation, the "k" remains in knight when written to distinguish it from the homophone "night". If you doubt this explanation then consider "now", "know" and "no". Incidentally, there are two other homophones of right and write - wright (meaning "worker" as in playwright and wheelwright) and rite (meaning "ceremony or ritual" as in rite of passage) ... as you can now see the silent "w" pairings would actually be "rite" with "write", and "right" with "wright". The meaning and etymology of each word is different and unrelated, the reason they exist in the English language is because they were introduced into the language from different European languages at different times in different regional locations (rite is derived from Latin; write, wright and right are all Germanic but from Saxon, Frisian and Norse derivation) The only silent "P" is in swimming. In the English language there are very few definitive pronunciations of words as the the actual pronunciation varies with dialect and accent. In this thread thus far we have several people offering opinions whose lingua franca is English but whose accent and dialect varies considerably. ------------- What? |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 08:42
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 09:11
If you have the British accent of either Ian or myself I would be quietly surprised, since it is highly unlikely that he and I share an accent given that I come from the east coast of England and he resides the capitol city of Wales, (not withstanding the possibility that someone living in the USA having the same accent as either of us is almost inevitable). I would be equally surprised that people posting from Cleveland, Colorado, Georgia, Northern California and Washington, DC would be sharing a common accent... However, I do accept that these things are indeed possible, co-incidence, however unlikely, does happen. ------------- What? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 09:13
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Some have said that 'English' is one of the hardest languages to learn because of 'silent' letters; however, it's just as Dean said about regional differences with 'pronunciation' and how they have been changed over time by our regional neighbors. But Mainly, we should consider the 'logic' in the English language. Take for example the word 'Island.'
Now if we took out the 's' how the would we pronounce it? It would be Iland or Ileand and you can see by trying to pronounce 'Island' without the silent 's' being visible it takes away from trying to say the word correctly mainly because of the 'double LL.' Anyhow, Silent letters play more of a role in the English language than one might ever think. ;) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: December 29 2013 at 09:22
'double LL'?? say what? Confusion over upper case "I" and lower case "l" in sans-serif fonts perhaps, but in lower case this confusion does not exist ("iland") nor would it with serifs it would be "Iland" However, that aside, great post.
/edit: Of course, Isle can have a silent "a" at the beginning, which leads us to the famous Prog pun by Peter Gabriel: "The Aisle of Plenty" ------------- What? |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: December 31 2013 at 12:33
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I pronounce both words the following way: "rite" If you do not pronounce them this way, you are rong. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 31 2013 at 12:36
 ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: December 31 2013 at 14:00
Pretty interesting.  ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: December 31 2013 at 14:39
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Right is rite and write is rite ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 16:28
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I've always been puzzled that the nouns plumber and slumber don't rhyme (as the former has a silent 'b') So what makes plumber different from say, number or cucumber? ------------- 
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 16:56
Probably because it's derived from the verb to plumb? That'd be my guess. ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 17:00
OK I geddit, to comfortably numb.... -------------
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Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 17:08
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A lot of English's inconsistencies come from French conquests of the island and attempts to "Latin-ize" the Germanic language. I'd find sources but I'm lazy.
------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 07 2014 at 17:54
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Can anyone explain the rationale behind the different pronunciation of the following? Charles was a charlatan The owl and the vole howled at the hole in the bowl -------------
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 16:58
 ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:13
^ though it seems Seuss was less thorough than he thought, which was not enough, being unaware of the hiccough Chough from Scarborough:
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 17:35
It's all language of origin - Charles is a derivation of Karl from German, so gets the soft k sound ('ch') Charlatan is a portmanteau of an Italian word and a French word, so it gets the soft sh sound. Owl is Old English and Germanic, so it has the "ow" sound (cowl, howl, etc) Vole is English and Norwegian, so it gets a hard o. Hole and bowl are in the same boat, with bowl having an Older English origin. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 08 2014 at 19:31
Thanks, that wasn't the answer I was expecting but it certainly seems plausible  -------------
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: October 08 2017 at 10:44
not if you are Elmer Fudd.
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