I've been thinking about this concept for a while, and so I started a Facebook page called The Prog Mind.  I want it to be a community of prog lovers that appreciate the message just as much as the melody.  They place emphasis on the lyrics and on the music.  I feel that this will get us closer and closer to the true soul of prog: that undefinable aura that seems to embrace prog.  If you feel like it, join my community at  https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/TheProgMind   If not, share your feelings about this topic!

For instance I found out early on that Fripp was into Gurdjief and Bennett; ie, The Fourth Way Work. It encouraged me to find out what the philosophy was all about nd I spent several years reading about it which led me to other philosphical ideas. The same with Yes and Topographic Oceans which led me into Paramahansa Yogananda and Vedic ideas.

I completely agree!  I can appreciate the music even if I happen to disagree.  What's important to me is that they put some thought into it.  For instance, Epica's Design Your Universe is quite pantheistic or something similar.  I disagree, but I still feel a great pull into the music based on the lyrics.  However, I want to see some serious thought.  Last year, Galahad released Beyond the Gates of Euphoria, and the philosophical train of thought was terrible.  It was all over the place.  They contradicted themselves multiple times!  The music was great, but I still have trouble listening intently to it; 

Also, knowing what an artist had in mind during the composing process can be very important and can give us the possibility to catch the message. The way one listens to Jugband Blues is very different if you know the story behind. One thing is a psychedelic-pop song, another is the testament of an artist aware of his mental illness. 

It's the same in literature: the short horror tale "The extraneous" written by HP Lovecraft is apparently meaningless and surely not interesting, but bearing in mind the author's story and what he has suffered as child because of his mother, it becomes self-biographical and it's really moving.

I told this to Jon backstage at the Chicago 35th Anniversary show, and he gave me a wonderful smile.  I guess I made the right choice, better than accounting! 

So... what the hell else are we supposed to do with our brains?  

 

However, do you want to give a nice concise example where philosophy that has been a positive expansion of our understanding of the world?

Yeah man!  Back in 1976.  Here is the video!

(I know this one is not prog, but here it goes:) "Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine" - don't mean jack s%$t to me, especially since the time of Jesus was rather very poorly documented, and I don't freaking know whether he has ever really existed. PG's "Biko" has brought the cruelty in the Apartheid-stricken corners of the world to the attention of the rest of the world, but had not done much else (at least to my knowledge, especially since my knowledge I find rather feeble, let alone in the history of the world).

 

 It's Brass Tacks, not Brass Tax.

Everyone assumes that philosophy does nothing but good, yet there is little evidence of that. In its basic form, philosophy does nothing and gives us nothing, it has never produced anything of value, for every philosophical thought there is an counter train of thought that states the opposite view. One man's philosophical panacea is another man's anathema.

 

Dayvenkirq wrote: Dean wrote: We will repeat the same mistakes regardless of how much we know it is destined to failure because we are an arrogant species who denies its past mistakes. 1) What kind of failure is it destined to? 2) Not all of us are arrogant. 3) We don't deny our past mistakes ... that's what history classes are for.

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What?

Dean wrote: Dayvenkirq wrote: Dean wrote: We will repeat the same mistakes regardless of how much we know it is destined to failure because we are an arrogant species who denies its past mistakes. 1) What kind of failure is it destined to? 2) Not all of us are arrogant. 3) We don't deny our past mistakes ... that's what history classes are for. Show me one case where we as a species has learnt from their mistakes. We are all arrogant. Empires still rise and fall, we still wage pointless wars, people still die of starvation. History has taught us nothing.

[/quote]If there is anything history has taught us, it's what not to do.

 

Sorry, just a weird thing to read.

Still a weird thing to read?

 

This is more than just being smart with words.

 

 

Oh...now you did it.....

Do you want Dean to philosophize ...er make a pronouncement on how there ain't no such things as space aliens.

 

Philosophy is not "a healthy way of thinking" - though it is often used to justify a way of thinking into making it appear to be healthy.

Dayvenkirq wrote: 1) Who is everyone? 2) The form of philosophy as we know it is far beyond basic, last time I 1) Dayvenkirq wrote: Who is everyone? 2) The form of philosophy as we know it is far beyond basic, last time I checked. 3) "One man's philosophical panacea is another man's anathema." What is this, a universal thing? How can you prove that? 1) mankind is everyone, unless you want to sit this one out. 2) There is no one form of philosophy, there are many, many different philosophies, all different, many of them contradictory. 3) Of course I can prove it. Pick a philosophy then look for the opposite philosophy - you can guarantee that one will exist, even if it is shoruded in gobbledygook languag e- existentialism is opposed by determinsitic fatalism for example.   [QUOTE=Dayvenkirq]If there is anything history has taught us, it's what not to do.

Yet we still do it. Ergo, the lesson taught is not learnt.

 

You should try reading long posts occasionally instead of skimming them.

Dean wrote: Dayvenkirq wrote: 1) Who is everyone? 2) The form of philosophy as we know it is far beyond basic, last time I 1) Dayvenkirq wrote: Who is everyone? 2) The form of philosophy as we know it is far beyond basic, last time I checked. 3) "One man's philosophical panacea is another man's anathema." What is this, a universal thing? How can you prove that? 1) mankind is everyone, unless you want to sit this one out. 2) There is no one form of philosophy, there are many, many different philosophies, all different, many of them contradictory. 3) Of course I can prove it. Pick a philosophy then look for the opposite philosophy - you can guarantee that one will exist, even if it is shoruded in gobbledygook languag e- existentialism is opposed by determinsitic fatalism for example.

1) You are saying that everyone assumes the same thing?  Damn, what a coincidence. 3) Thomas Malthus: Get rid of some inhabitants of the same niche so that there would be enough resources for everyone left in the said niche. How would you oppose to that?

Dean wrote: Dayvenkirq wrote: If there is anything history has taught us, it's what not to do. Yet we still do it. Ergo, the lesson taught is not learnt.

We still do what? Are you saying that Turks are still committing genocide against Armenians?

Back on the horse: like I said, look to Mr. Hammill. There may be more to the lyrics than meets the eye.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77949&PN=1" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77949&PN=1

 

some other opinions since all of the comments as always are just opinions.

 

http://ghostland.com/ghostland/editorials.asp?ID=19" rel="nofollow - http://ghostland.com/ghostland/editorials.asp?ID=19

 

Good album but imho Dark and Frequency are better.

 

I've always thought his lyrics presented 'mind images' for me while listening to Yes music and that was enough for me.

But many lyrics over the years from various types of music have led me to other ideas and material to read about on multiple levels. So I pay attention to them to see what they have to offer. Of course many are just surrealistic word play and that's ok.

 

Not sure if you were talking to me but...I think they do at times. I guess it depends on how one wants to interpret lyrics also.

I think the songs Sacred Sound and Harvest Of Souls....and .Frequency and Ryker Skies are very interesting lyrically.

 

Serious...in what way?

Enlightening..? If you mean allowing me to reach nirvana...then no.

But I think many of his lyrics on those 2 cd's point out some interesting aspects of the human condition....and I like the way he does it within the context of the song. If , as some have already mentioned, they were merely love lyrics etc, I would not enjoy the overall effect as much. I like the mix of some meaning to the words as well as a good 'melody'.

 

Well.....that would depend completely on the person but imo yes if someone were receptive.

I can't give you specifics but people are certainly affected by what they hear and read and lyrics in prog songs or any other are no exception.

 

Two of the few prog bands whose lyrics I connect with are Thinking Plague & Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. For someone to make life decisions based on Jon Anderson lyrics I frankly find bizarre but hey each to their own, whatever works for you.

 

This is probably why I primarily listen to instrumental music or lyrics in languages I don't understand, which is basically all of those that aren't English. Give me Magma, Uz Jsme Doma & Polite Refusal for vocal based bands.

 

I agree....there are several sections on CTE that seem to create a strong feeling.....

several of the earlier KC songs do that to me also.

From In The Wake of Poseidon:

 

"Heroes hands drain stones for blood
To whet the scaling knife.
Magi blind with visions light
Net death in dread of life.
Their children kneel in jesus till
They learn the price of nails;
Whilst all around our mother earth
Waits balanced on the scales."

 

To me very evocative stuff.

 

 

Whereas to me it reads as complete bollocks and I'm a huge KC fan. I guess mileage varies.

Since Aristotle's time we have managed to separate out the disciplines of Science, Philosophy and Alchemy - one of these permits the major advances we have experience, one of them we have discarded as charlatan, the other hangs on by the skin of its teeth because...

HolyMoly wrote: Plus, I majored in Philosophy biyyaaatch

I will, however, tip my hat to you for cleverly using my own postscript as the exclamation point on your argument.  That was pretty cool. .   I'm probably in over my head, advancing what must sound like a load of mystical BS, but what the hey.  It's a topic that interests me.

Oh, wait ... now we are not talking lyrics.  ... What about just something of Waters or Hammill type?

Yes!  And fry up some bacon, too!  

Philosophy does not answer any of those, nor does it even attempt to get close to explaining any of them. In 3000 years of documented Philosophy we've not one single philosophical explanation of anything that has any practical application. In fact philosophy has been so self-absorbed it has managed to confuse itself on exactly what an explanation is such that it is impossible to give an explanation on what actually constitutes an explanation. Philosophy is never going to tell us what "life" actually is no matter how many philosophers we put onto the problem, we will never arrive at an explanation - an infinity of philosophers pounding at an infinity of typewriters for an eternity will result in precisely nothing... So Mr Kant, we arrive at the end of the Universe so it is time to see what you have produced in that eternity on your trusty Remington Model No.5, so let us look at what have you written here? "To be is to do", Right. Is that it? Really? The sum total of an infinity of years of work is six words that we in the trade call 'taking the piss'... you do realise that people will be making jokes about this in the future; anything else? "Happiness is not an ideal of reason, but of imagination"... right, I see, you managed a few more random words there that almost make sense... if you'd spent a night at the tavern on cheap wine that is; any other pearls of wisdom you wish to share? "Science is organised knowledge. Wisdom is organised life" .. okay, two nights in the tavern and a pipeful of wacky-baccy; one more before I throw you out? "I had therefore to remove knowledge, in order to make room for belief" ... somehow that doesn't surprise me one bit, you mind that door doesn't swing back and hit you on your arse as you leave... "Ingratitude is the essence of vileness." Oh, go home and annoy someone else.

 

Philosophy has never figured anything out and I honestly don't expect that it ever will, the process of looking for the answer is not the goal... that's like firing randomly at a wall, drawing targets around where the bullets didn't hit and feeling smug about it. "These aren't the droids you're looking for."

 

 

Not sure who it was here but someone said Revealing Science of God by Yes made him think about going into a different carreer.

 

Well...you just don't understand it then.

 

 

Yes..just like politics and progressive rock websites.

 

 

 

 

Spot on......but the material reductionists simply don't get that,,, or don't want to.

To them it's all just hardwired brain cells, etc etc....nothing to see here move on.