You might be prog if......
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Printed Date: March 13 2025 at 07:18
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Topic: You might be prog if......
Posted By: stacanova
Subject: You might be prog if......
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 19:23
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What is Prog? How can you tell if a band is Prog? How do you know if they are not? The other night at work, Progressive Mike and myself were discussing (arguing) about this very thing. I've also seen several "discussions" on here about this. We wondered if a checklist existed that would tell us if a band was Prog? So we tried to come up with a "Five Essentials" that is the DNA of all Prog bands. I think all prog bands might tick all five of these boxes? Let me know if you can think of one that doesn't? Let me know if you can think of a band that isn't Prog that does all of these? Thanks! This is what we came up with. 1. Concept or theme albums/songs (Not every album, but they have done at least one) 2.
Virtuoso musicianship 3.
Use of odd time signatures 4.
Lengthy songs 5.
Pretentiousness |
Replies:
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 19:29
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Oh good grief. Not even close. ------------- What? |
Posted By: RBlak054
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 19:58
| I must say I disagree... While I think the five elements you listed are certainly present in a lot of progressive rock (symphonic prog in particular), I would by no means consider them necessary to the genre. I believe that any genre - especially one as varied as progressive rock - is too complex a thing to be restricted and defined by five characteristics; there is much more to writing music of a particular style than simply ticking the correct boxes! |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 20:31
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...if it has Rickenbacker basses and Mellotrons, well, then, it MUST be prog! Even better if it sounds like music you'd hear at a Renaissance festival!
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 20:54
| ^Hey, Chuck, right on! Hit the nail on the head, friend. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 20:56
| Pretentiousness is not a prog qualification. |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 21:58
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Here is the official discussion from the Archives: http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp . It does not merely give a concise definition, which is impossible, but rather explains the nature of Prog and its history. As members, we do not have to agree with everything said but I cannot think of a more accurate and comprehensive treatment of the subject. Not everything can be reduced to a simple formula or definition and Prog is one of them. That is part of why I like Prog: No matter how much I think I know, there is always some new approach or aspect of it. Long live Prog! ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 21:59
I think Wikipedia has defined it very well:CharacteristicsProgressive rock is not crisply delineated from other genres, but is more likely than other types of popular music to feature characteristics such as: FormProgressive rock songs either avoid common http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_music" rel="nofollow - popular music http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_structure_%28popular_music%29" rel="nofollow - song structures of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verse%E2%80%93chorus_form" rel="nofollow - verse-chorus form , or blur the formal distinctions by extending sections or inserting musical interludes, often with exaggerated dynamics to heighten contrast between sections. Classical forms are often inserted or substituted, sometimes yielding entire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - suites , building on the traditional http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medley_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - medleys of earlier rock bands. Progressive rock songs also often have extended instrumental passages, marrying the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music" rel="nofollow - classical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solo_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - solo tradition with the improvisational traditions of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychedelic_rock" rel="nofollow - psychedelic rock . All of these tend to add length to progressive rock songs, which may last longer than twenty minutes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] TimbreEarly progressive rock groups expanded the timbral palette of the then-traditional rock instrumentation of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar" rel="nofollow - guitar , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_instrument" rel="nofollow - keyboard , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar" rel="nofollow - bass guitar , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum" rel="nofollow - drums by adding instruments more typical of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz" rel="nofollow - jazz or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music" rel="nofollow - folk music , such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flute" rel="nofollow - flute , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxophone" rel="nofollow - saxophone , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timpani" rel="nofollow - timpani , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin" rel="nofollow - violin , and more often than not used http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_keyboard" rel="nofollow - electronic keyboards , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer" rel="nofollow - synthesizers , and electronic effects. Some instruments most notably the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_organ" rel="nofollow - Hammond organ , the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moog_synthesizer" rel="nofollow - Moog synthesizer , and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mellotron" rel="nofollow - Mellotron have become closely associated with the genre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] RhythmDrawing on their classical, jazz, folk and experimental influences, progressive rock artists are more likely to explore complex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature" rel="nofollow - time signatures such as 5/8 and 7/8. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-6" rel="nofollow - [6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo" rel="nofollow - Tempo , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_%28music%29" rel="nofollow - key and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature" rel="nofollow - time signature changes are very common in progressive rock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-7" rel="nofollow - [7] Progressive rock generally tends to be freer in its rhythmic approach than other forms of rock music. The approach taken varies, depending on the band, but may range from regular beats to complex time signatures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] Melody and harmonyIn progressive rock, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blues" rel="nofollow - blues inflections of mainstream rock are often discarded. Progressive bands drew inspiration from a wide range of genres, ranging from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music" rel="nofollow - classical to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_music" rel="nofollow - jazz , and, in later works, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_music" rel="nofollow - world music. The genre abandoned many of rock's traditional characteristics, including a standard verse-chorus structure, and often replaced the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_guitar" rel="nofollow - electric guitar with more layered and complex instrumentation to create longer compositions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-8" rel="nofollow - [8] Melodies are more likely to be modal than based on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentatonic_scale" rel="nofollow - pentatonic scale , and are more likely to comprise longer, developing passages than short, catchy ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] Concept albumsConcept albums are albums that are built around a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theme_%28arts%29" rel="nofollow - theme or a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_of_events" rel="nofollow - story , and they are common to progressive rock. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-AllMusic1-3" rel="nofollow - [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-9" rel="nofollow - [9] Concept albums may have included the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History" rel="nofollow - historical , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy" rel="nofollow - fantastical , and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysics" rel="nofollow - metaphysical , and even, in the case of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Jethro Tull 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_as_a_Brick" rel="nofollow - Thick as a Brick (1972), for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parody" rel="nofollow - parodying concept albums. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] Concept albums became popular after the releases of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mothers_of_Invention" rel="nofollow - the Mothers of Invention 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_Out%21" rel="nofollow - Freak Out! (1966), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beach_Boys" rel="nofollow - the Beach Boys ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_Sounds" rel="nofollow - Pet Sounds (1966), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles" rel="nofollow - The Beatles ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgt._Peppers_Lonely_Hearts_Club_Band" rel="nofollow - Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who" rel="nofollow - The Who 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who_Sell_Out" rel="nofollow - The Who Sell Out (1967) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moody_Blues" rel="nofollow - The Moody Blues ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_Future_Passed" rel="nofollow - Days of Future Passed (1967). Notable progressive rock concept albums include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarkus" rel="nofollow - Tarkus (1971), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd" rel="nofollow - Pink Floyd 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Side_of_the_Moon" rel="nofollow - The Dark Side of the Moon (1973), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wish_You_Were_Here_%28Pink_Floyd_album%29" rel="nofollow - Wish You Were Here (1975), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_%28Pink_Floyd_album%29" rel="nofollow - Animals (1977), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wall" rel="nofollow - The Wall (1979), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Yes ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tales_from_Topographic_Oceans" rel="nofollow - Tales from Topographic Oceans (1973), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Genesis ' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lamb_Lies_Down_on_Broadway" rel="nofollow - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (1974), and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Jethro Tull 's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_as_a_Brick" rel="nofollow - Thick as a Brick (1972).[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" rel="nofollow - Lyrical themes
Progressive rock bands tend to avoid typical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_music" rel="nofollow - rock / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_music" rel="nofollow - pop subjects such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love" rel="nofollow - love , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing" rel="nofollow - dancing ,
etc. Unlike other rock genres, they also deliberately avoid typical
themes appealing to youth such as sex, violence, nihilism, rebellion,
and the macabre., rather inclining towards the kinds of themes found in
classical http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literature" rel="nofollow - literature , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy" rel="nofollow - fantasy , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction" rel="nofollow - science fiction , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore" rel="nofollow - folklore , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_commentary" rel="nofollow - social commentary or all of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-allmusic.com-4" rel="nofollow - [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-10" rel="nofollow - [10] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-11" rel="nofollow - [11] For example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Gabriel" rel="nofollow - Peter Gabriel of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Genesis often wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrealism" rel="nofollow - surreal stories to base his lyrics around, sometimes including theatrical elements with several characters, while http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Waters" rel="nofollow - Roger Waters of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd" rel="nofollow - Pink Floyd combined social criticism with personal struggles with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greed" rel="nofollow - greed , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity" rel="nofollow - madness and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death" rel="nofollow - death . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock#cite_note-progarchives-5" rel="nofollow - [5] [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources" rel="nofollow - One side epics
One side epics probably had their birth in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mothers_of_Invention" rel="nofollow - the Mothers of Invention album http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolutely_Free" rel="nofollow - Absolutely Free ,
which featured one epic composition in each side of the record
("Absolutely Free" and "The M.O.I. American Pageant"), each one divided
in smaller songs. Even earlier, in 1966, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freak_Out%21" rel="nofollow - Freak Out! featured the multi-part song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_the_Son_of_Monster_Magnet" rel="nofollow - The Return of the Son of Monster Magnet occupying the whole Side four of the album. Other early examples include the 17 minute epic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shine_on_Brightly" rel="nofollow - "In Held 'Twas in I" by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procol_Harum" rel="nofollow - Procol Harum , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ars_Longa_Vita_Brevis_%28album%29" rel="nofollow - Ars Longa Vita Brevis by The Nice, and "Rivmic Melodies", by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_Machine" rel="nofollow - Soft Machine . A perfect example of the marriage of rock and classical themes is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_Scheherazade" rel="nofollow - Song of Scheherazade by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Renaissance .
The earliest one side epic from an already famous band, was released in
1969, when the Beatles included the 16 minute Abbey Road Medley on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbey_Road" rel="nofollow - Abbey Road album. Soon later bands like Pink Floyd, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Yes , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Genesis began to use this technique for later compositions such as "Echoes", " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Close_to_the_Edge_%28song%29" rel="nofollow - Close to the Edge ", " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarkus_%28song%29" rel="nofollow - Tarkus ", and " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppers_Ready" rel="nofollow - Supper's Ready ", respectively. Some artists pushed the limit to the whole album, as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Jethro Tull did with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_as_a_Brick" rel="nofollow - Thick as a Brick (1972) and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Passion_Play" rel="nofollow - A Passion Play (1973) or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Oldfield" rel="nofollow - Mike Oldfield did with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubular_Bells" rel="nofollow - Tubular Bells (1973). |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: March 30 2013 at 22:23
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Practically every jazz giant from 1960 or 'modern' classical composer post WW2 could happily tick all 5 boxes and none could even be remotely described as Prog?! Where you going with this? ------------- 
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 00:58
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The list quoted in the O.P. may be instantly recognisable traits of Prog-Rock, with all 5 points being applicable to many acts - E.L.P., Rick Wakeman, Yes, even Transatlantic & Spock's Beard etc. But it really is only the tip of the iceberg. There's really only 2 points mentioned which I can say is a commonality with practically all bands I know of :
lengthy tracks , at least, over 6 minutes long (but not necessarily making up the entire album's contents) and use of odd-time sigs. The other 3 points may relate to some, but not all 'Prog'.
|
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 01:36
| When you start thinking that you need to tick boxes in order for your music to 'be prog' you are already in the wrong way. Prog is precisely about making rock music free from any boxes to tick. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 01:42
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All you need is a cool band name to be prog. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 02:13
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burn every list, forget about every defination, and listen, listen, listen. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 02:24
You haven't excluded Tchaikovsky et al ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
stacanova wrote:Posted By: RoeDent
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 02:29
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This thread has proved that prog (in fact, any genre really) is impossible to definitively define. As Jesse Jackson said in the speech sampled for Primal Scream's Come Together: "All those are just labels. We know that music is music." Prog is about thinking outside the box, not ticking it.
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Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 02:40
Agreed - but there's more too it than that. Lots of non-prog thinks outside the box too. But 'non-prog' is another label, of course.... ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 03:37
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Prog can be a difficult animal to understand and I've seen various arguments around the net of what is and what is not prog. To me what makes up prog is music that is different from the ordinary structure that makes up a mainstream genre - pop music, rock, country rock, country, folk, jazz, metal etc. etc where it goes beyond those specific genres. To over complicate something on purpose is to mess it up and perhaps we shouldn't over complicate what makes up prog music. When I was around 12 years old I found prog rock and it was an instant love affair. (I was 12 in around 1971). Back then the music stores that mattered here in SA didn't have such a thing as a prog category but what they had was a section in their stores called Underground and to me that section contained what I percieve as prog music as it was far removed from the mainstream genres of music. If I wanted Yes, Genesis, Hawkwind, Alice Cooper, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep etc I looked for it in the underground section of music stores. From there things went further and the prog label was ultimately born.
I will argue vehemently today that Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, Alice Cooper, Budgie and the like are most definately prog music and the reason for that is that back when they released their initial albums they were progressive. When I first got hold of Black Sabbath albums there was virtually nothing out there that sounded like them and they were formant in taking music in new directions - today people will argue that they aren't really prog by todays standards but back then those arguments were not relevant in that they were progressive then. To me, if something was progressive then they have to be progressive today - or labelled as such. Someone can argue with me today that Alice Cooper is not progressive until they turn blue but I'm not interested in the argument because in 1972 they were.
By modern standards Prog to me means music that is more advanced than the standard forms out there structurally, demands a higher degree of instrument skill than does the ordinary, makes solid use of keyboard instumentation a lot of the time, changes direction concerning the longer tracks, doesn't consist of the standard passage then chorus then passage structure, uses different and more complex rythm structures than the ordinary, is not aimed at a mainstream audience for commercial purposes and other things that I don't want to write a book about here. The single most important thing that I look for I suppose is does the music take me on a journey in my mind or does it simple pick me up like a taxi and drop me off at the nearest destination. I look for emotion as well I guess - does the music hold real emotion regardless of what that emotion is - real emotion beyond the standard love thing that pop music is almost wholly full of. I'm not a lover of standard pop music, mainstream metal, straight on jazz etc. in that I enjoy complexity of structure and subject matter. I will argue until I'm blue that Metallica are not prog music and that Stratovarius are and many will see that regarding my own beliefs down the line here - why? Simply because Stratovarius takes me on a journey when I close my eyes and listen to it and Metallica don't aside from a very few of their tracks. The taking on a journey is the most real aspect of what makes up prog for me today. Big Big Train take me on a journey, Be Bop Deluxe don't. Zappa can take me to some wierd places, Radiohead take me nowhere.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 03:41
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To the OP: Aqualung could be used as a classic counter-example to the list (has it not been for the "medium" length of a few songs on it), but still very close. Judging by the posts above, there must be many more.
I've noticed that every time I think "prog rock", the notion of symphonic rock comes to mind for some reason. Keep in mind that we have other guys like Prog-Related and Crossover Prog (Roxy Music, anybody?).
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Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 06:19
| Cross over/Prog related originally derived from the idea to simply be a little more interesting than average Pop , but with much less complexity. Now it is compartmentalized into a catagory with a definition which will register in the minds of people who may have originally thought the music just to be "Rock" ..as many did with the Beatles in the 60's and early70's. I find the whole concept of define this or that to be ridiculous whenever I think of the original idea, which was to simply have freedom of expression within various styles of music decades ago. That seems too premature to people today and a catagory/store sticker feels more logical to them. That revolves around the frustration in people's minds that 2 + 2 cannot equal 4 and so a classification solves their ultimate confusion. Experimentation in the 60's and 70's , logically is not summed up by pasting a stub on it to satisfy a confusing definition in your own head that you didn't grow up with, makes no sense at all and beats the hell out of you. Lady Gaga is not Prog. Styx is not Prog...but catagorization gives it a lame excuse to be Prog. That's insulting, disgraceful, and moronic. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 07:52
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:20
Let's make a suggestion here ... it will be a lot better, if you stop thinking in terms of "prog" or "progressive" or ... "poop" ... ooopppppssss ... "pop music"! What you are suggesting is an idea to make this just another top ten, and close down the ideas and concepts that helped create both progressive, and later prog, which were, above all, about changing the history of the medium and its process ... The weird part? ... you are trying to pin down a process, for something that originally started without one ... it's like you sitting here and trying to define Stravinsky ... next to everyone else in music. Stop being silly! A lot of those terms are used to help identify some things ... and yeah ... long cuts is one ... but the problem is when you say that you are not defining if the long cut is an opera, a symphony, or a concerto ... and you are only thinking of it as a "song" ... and not everyone writes "songs" ... and your ideas get distorted and dismantled, and in school, you will get a D for effort in the time you took to think it out, but an F for the work you put together, because it means that you missed, misunderstood, and misapplied music history! The progressive thing, will YET make a name for itself ... but not for what it did do ... more like ... what it didn't do, which was ... follow convention in most forms! Let's just say, for dialogue's sakes ... that it was anti-social ... and specially anti-socialist as the media likes to make everything and tell you what to like and not like! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:21
Pres ... I thought it was for ProgArchives!  ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:28
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You might be prog if you take your shoes off. ------------- The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:29
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You might be prog if you pull down your Larks' Tongues In Aspic pants ... and people will see Tubular Bells underwear.
Oops ... Not that kind of thread.
Also, ... wish there was a subsection in the "Creating New Threads" rubric that would recommend not to create threads on certain topics like "what's the definition of prog" (since it's a tried subject). |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:35
If you read this, you will find that the only thing that Wiki can do is try to find a way to describe something in terms that are "known". There is a problem with that definition ... and you need to start with a big "why" to yourself ... would you do something that someone else wants, instead of describing how you feel? Or, let me ask you ... your "I love you" to your significant other is completely meaningless, because it doesn't have any individuality or honesty, because YES and JETHRO TULL did it differently and you are not smart enough to do it in your own way, and then say it ... on top of it, you are not strong enough to be yourself ... you have to quote someone else! Or the Bible! Or the Koran! or the Popol Vuh! Or the Bardo! There is no such thing as "exxagerated" anything ... there is only expression and emotion ... and some cry harder than the others, and some don't give a merde! Now, grow up and realize that what Wiki is doing is giving the masses more garbage, to make them stupid'er ... rather than enhance their ability to know and learn ... because they do not want the "public" to learn to love "progressive" ... because if they did, you will immediately have another revolution, because we do not want to do things, just because you told me to do it this way or that way! WTF ... the man on the moon never happened, VietNam was just another movie. The IRA was just another bad Cambridge/Oxford joke. The world doesn't turn, because it's flat! That's almost exactly what that article is telling you about "progressive" anything ... there is no basis in the life of people, that created the artistic scene, which btw, did not happen just in music ... it also happened in film, television, writing, painting and several other art forms that Wiki, and many other folks refuse to acknowledge. In other words, truth and the world, never happened! If you want to learn, what "progressive" is all about, you will see how that paragraph is so ethnocentric, so xenophobic and so malicious, as to state, that you have to be a moron to have any kind of feeling or opinion in your life. How socialist of you to be told to shut up and conform! And you call that "freedom"? Why can't it just be ... and LET IT BE? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:43
You absolutely crazy and silly turkey ... you're competing with my Madonna underware! (To hide the gay-ness, of course!) (mis...pelling intended!) Goodness ... but I really would love to have a nice pair of those buccaneer boots that Chris Squire used to wear, the ones that went to mid-thigh .... because those you could call ... BOOTS ... for walking and kicking butt! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:46
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To be is to honey scoobie doobie flat minor in excelsis glory glory halley bopp bop a looby looby loo bam blam cha-cha. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:48
| ^ Interesting ... What show is that from? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 12:53
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Television, the drug of the Nation Breeding ignorance and feeding radiation ------------- What? |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 13:10
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Humans don't categorize things by fitting them into a definition. They categorize things according to their similarity with other things. In this way, categories are ever-expanding and malleable because every time something is absorbed into a category (because it was similar to the other things in the category) it opens the door to more things being added that are similar to it and less similar to the original group included in the category. Ergo, it's impossible to define prog. A certain act is considered "prog" only because it is similar to a group of bands that were similar to a group of bands that were similar too...all on down the line until you get to the original group of progressive rock bands in the 70's. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: sukmytoe
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 15:21
Heh heh - reading back  . Human kind likes to put things in boxes with other similar things - that's kind of the way the human mind is wired. With music and me it's all about the journey with the music itself and with the travels the music can take me on - or not. Lady Gaga takes me on a journey alright - right out of earshot of her. I don't like pop music generally as I'm a long way from being a teeny bopper and simplistic things don't appeal to me. If I spool up a track and find that that track takes me to places in my head, good or bad places it doesn't matter much - then that music to me is prog music. It could be said that classical music has the effect of carrying people on mind journeys but then I percieve personally that the old classical music is far closer to prog music as we know it than it is to bubbly pop music. I could spool up 1812 by Tchaikovsky just as easily as I could Supper's Ready by Genesis but I could not spool up any of the myriad of pop bands out there today - I would feel kind of self let down doing that and I would have a very unpleasant half hour or so listening to drivel that people like Cowell make a fortune out of marketing to millions of airheads who purely want a pleasant jingle to get them through the day. Things like Jazz, the Blues, Classical music, Progressive Rock Music in its many forms are not things that Airheads would like to listen to - there is a huge difference between reading a novel and reading an Archie comic book and that is kind of the way I look at music. Personally I'm not overly fond of Classical music or Hardcore Jazz and so I get my eargasm kicks from what I define to be prog rock or prog metal music - I don't really care what the powers that be here at PA define to be prog music as I have my own definition and I trust my own mind to tell me what I think. PA has got most of it right and thus I'm a fan of the site (it's great) - I just mustn't get started on the Stratovarius thing, heh heh, because it seems to get some people here and me steamed up somewhat.
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Posted By: ProgressiveMike
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 15:33
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yes, all prog bands I listen to share those qualities. There are several non prog bands that share some of the aformentioned qualities, but not all, and are in fact pop, rock, or metal bands (by admission). There is so far no group I can specifically name that recognizes themselves as a prog act and do not meet the criteria listed, as is there no specific music act I can think of that is not a prog act and meets all the criteria listed. That being said I think the list is hilarious and i'm quite proud of it. It's not as though the list has been fabricated to ensure Stacanova or I only listen to prog. In fact the two of us enjoy a wide variety of music that could not be considered prog. We have merely been in the midst of a 9 month prog kick spurred on by our love of music and discovery of new bands, producers, artists, albums, etc. And all you citing jazz and classical artists; very pretentious. Prog on. Furthermore to those who have cited that jazz and classical artists/composers are prog, you are correct, (say for Miles Davis, but not for say Kenny G) but prog in this case is meant to mean "progressive rock music" not "any progressive music." Just like on the DGM website, you may order a variety of prog music and music by artists who have been in prog bands, but you can also order music and merchandise by Primus, who may have prog tendancies but could only have several songs or an album considerd to be bonafide prog rock. They're also not pretentious. Anyway we were jsut discussing it, we came up with the theory, so if you can disprove it with SPECIFIC examples of PROGRESSIVE ROCK that does not fit the formula or other rock music that does, post it up please. We have also been discussing the creation of a prog fan dating website, but the prevailing theory is that only men would join. :( |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 15:45
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tl;dr
No, it's just you. We just grow tired of it. ------------- What? |
Posted By: stacanova
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 16:09
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Wow!
This is awkward....our little top 5 list was meant to be something fun, I didn't mean to challenge anyones political or self views.
It is just a theory from a discussion. An unproven theory I was hoping someone on this forum could lend their prog rock expertise to.
Not trying to box anyone or any band up.
Viva la resistance!
I think we all categorize things, if we like it or not, it's kind of a "human" thing, I don't think animals do it, but I could be wrong (don't want to upset anyone).
So does anyone have any examples?
Besides Styx?
I think they are on the cusp of prog, but not prog, I could be wrong once again, but I don't recall them using that many odd time signatures, any big Styx fans on here that can shed some light?
Thanks
Everyone is important and everyone's opinion matters, that is until I come to power!
Just kidding, sort of...
BTW, Happy Easter and Passover everyone!!!
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Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 16:53
False. You know you're prog when the Rolling Stone Magazine hates you. 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 31 2013 at 17:05
Well you certainly got a reaction, an over reaction. I could see that your post wasn't entirely serious but it was fun to watch. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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