"The Others" Bass Guitarists!
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Topic: "The Others" Bass Guitarists!
Posted By: Gandalff
Subject: "The Others" Bass Guitarists!
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:21
There are many excellent and generally appreciated Classic Prog Bass Guitarists, like Squire, Lake, Lee, Wetton, Levin, Ray Shulman, Trewavas etc.
And there are...the others, which aren't mentioned so often in various charts, polls and forums. They aren't weak at all, rather perhaps overshadowed by their band-mates. Who's your favourite?
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
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Replies:
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:25
not on the list but my favorite would probably be Hugh Hopper of Soft Machine.
------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 04:33
Jeffrey Hammond (Jethro Tull)< ="text/" ="" ="/B1D671CF-E532-4481-99AA-19F420D90332etdefender/huidhui.js?0=0&0=0&0=0">
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:21
Top for me.
------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 05:58
I like both Jannick Top and Jeffrey Hammond, or is it Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond?  Doug Ferguson is also to good mention.
I'll go with Top.
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Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 06:00
Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond of Tull.
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Posted By: antonyus
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 06:09
Klaus peter matziol from ELOY !!!
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Posted By: Terra Australis
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 06:14
Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond. Did Hugh Banton play bass much, I thought he was an organ player with bass pedals.
------------- Allomerus. Music with progressive intent.
http://allomerus.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - http://allomerus.bandcamp.com
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Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 08:13
Doug Ferguson.
-------------

One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D
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Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 08:41
Colin Edwin. I love how there's always a smile on his face.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Bequeathed" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 08:46
Top is great, but also repitive in his style. Bert Ruiter is a great allround bassplayer who can improvise. I love that.
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Posted By: gents
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 08:53
From this list Jeffrey Hammond, but I would point out that I like Lothart Meid..............
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Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 10:04
...quoting the always quotable Julian Cope:
"Jannik Top! I’m shaking in me booties just thinking ‘bout him. Jannik Top was a Gene Simmons for people with their own IQ. He played the bass like a Tyrannosaurus Rex skinning a Stegosaurus. He was at least eight feet tall and had claws instead of hands. His bass sound made the night fall early, and kept the moon from rising at all. He didn’t have amplifiers, he just plugged straight into the National Grid and drained the neighbourhood..."
Need I say more? Sometimes it's not the player himself, but the context of his performance, and the music of Magma was always more challenging than Genesis or Camel.
------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini
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Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 10:08
...and where the heck is Ray Shulman on this list..? The Gentle Giant bassist was arguably a more inventive player than any of the above..!
------------- "we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 11:57
Neu!mann wrote:
...and where the heck is Ray Shulman on this list..? The Gentle Giant bassist was arguably a more inventive player than any of the above..! | Please read properly my introducing post. He belongs to the Top Bass Group. < id="foxcub_translator_popup_win" style="visibility: ; width: 0px; height: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px;">
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 12:16
Terra Australis wrote:
Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond.Did Hugh Banton play bass much, I thought he was an organ player with bass pedals. |
He's credited on many VDGG albums parallelly as bass guitar and bass pedals player.
< id="foxcub_translator_popup_win" style="visibility: ; width: 0px; height: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px;">
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 12:21
Gong's Howlett needs some love !
------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 12:50
It's between Top, Howlett , Potter and Sinclair for me.
Voted for Sinclair.
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Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 12:57
Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond followed by Rutherford and Banton.
------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 13:04
I don't know many of this bass players, and the ones I know I may not have payed enough attention to all of them in order to compare them. However, I do remember when I was first listening to Camel (earlier this year) that one of the first things to come to my attention was Fergusson's bass playing, which I found pretty nice and busy. I also remember liking one of the bass players from Focus, who sounded pretty jazzy, but don't really remember which one on from which album. As for Roger Waters, as much as I like Pink Floyd, I don't think I ever found him particularly interesting, I rather like Gilmour himself better as a bass player, or even Guy Pratt.
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Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 13:05
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 13:13
It's between Sinclair and Top.
Went Top.
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 13:13
Mister Rutherford.
-------------
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 14:22
Hammond-Hammond. So good, they named him twice.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 14:56
Ferguson has an astonishing knack of making his bass lines fit the music perfectly without overcomplicating them.
------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 15:15
Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond. This was his Tull made up name, his real name was Jeffrey Hammond but I have read that his mother's maiden name was also "Hammond". So when it came to the Tull made up name, Hammond-Hammond was the obvious choice!
John Glascock should also be on this list. A far superior bass player to Jeffrey but not as crazy and also lacked the oblong striped Zebra suit and matching bass. Yes Jeffrey was right out there.
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 15:23
Sumdeus wrote:
not on the list but my favorite would probably be Hugh Hopper of Soft Machine.
| Whammo! 
I voted for Michael Rutherford, narrowly over Jannick Top. Rutherford just had so many nice melodic parts, he was like (or he WAS, rather) a second guitarist.
But Hugh Hopper's fuzz bass sound just thrills me every time.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 15:25
The-time-is-now wrote:
Doug Ferguson. |
Exactly this!
EDIT...But I have spotted Jannick Top only after having voted....
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 15:40
R. Sinclair overTop
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 15:50
Man With Hat wrote:
R. Sinclair overTop |
Technically speaking I agree, but looking at Camel I think the replacement of Ferguson with Sinclair has been everything but an improvement even though his work with other Caravan, Hatfield and Wyatt is surely excellent.
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 16:58
not on the list, but got to give a call of recognition to the late Helmut Koellen of Triumvirat, his work is quite outstanding, and overlooked
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 16:58
Am I wrong in thinking Mike Rutherford never gets any respect maybe he doesn't deserve any, but he has played on lot's of amazing songs
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 17:07
Richard Sinclair for sure.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 17:29
irrelevant wrote:
It's between Sinclair and Top.
Went Top. |
This.
-------------
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 18:31
Bert Ruiter from the list. Jeff Berlin not on the list.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 19:58
octopus-4 wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
R. Sinclair overTop |
Technically speaking I agree, but looking at Camel I think the replacement of Ferguson with Sinclair has been everything but an improvement even though his work with other Caravan, Hatfield and Wyatt is surely excellent. |
Not so sure I agree. I haven't heard the whole Sinclair's albums, but I have heard some songs with him on the Luna Sea compilation album, and on the "A Live Record" album, and in general I'm not impressed at all, while the albums with Ferguson were really great. Of course, I'm talking here about the creative input, not the bass-playing ability from each one. Still, when Camel got Sinclair instead of Ferguson they were suposed to want to go in a more complex direction, still the songs I've heard are rather simpler or just less interesting, they didn't encourage me to buy those two next albums.
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Posted By: Nash
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:12
hugh banton is my call in this one
------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/sydbarrettg.jpg/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:19
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:33
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. |
But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:36
Mason is not underrated.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:43
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. |
But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band. |
I know that Gilmour claimed to lay down the bass on many Floyd tracks for THE WALL, and perhaps prior albums. I have a few doubts about this, though. For one thing, Waters really did write nearly all the music for THE WALL. In my opinion, Waters is a much more talented musician than he is generally given credit for. (As a guitarist, I'm impressed by compositions like "Cirrus Minor" and "Goodbye Blue Sky," and was astonished to learn that Waters, not Gilmour, wrote those pieces of music. Ditto "Hey You," which, if you are a guitarist and can play this, must admire its chord progression, phrasing, and overall musical structure.)
I think Mason's important as well. I mean, he's no Peart, sure. But Floyd was all about spaces between notes, less is more... Gilmour's solos were at half-speed, the Mason's beats, too... alot of space, haha. I wouldn't *want* Neil Peart in Floyd. It would sound like... I don't know, Eloy perhaps. (Who were good too :-)
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:47
Horizons wrote:
Mason is not underrated. |
With this, do you mean that you think he is not so good, and you have the impression that people think the same? Or you think he is very good and believe that people have that same impression? Or that you think he is not so good but people in general think he is actually better than you consider him?
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:48
Horizons wrote:
Mason is not underrated. |
Well, is it a coincidence that the two greatest bands in the world (the Beatles and Pink Floyd) had what "experts" consider to be the worst drummers in rock and roll?
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:50
Dellinger wrote:
Horizons wrote:
Mason is not underrated. |
With this, do you mean that you think he is not so good, and you have the impression that people think the same? Or you think he is very good and believe that people have that same impression? Or that you think he is not so good but people in general think he is actually better than you consider him? |
I'm not sure, but I took his comments to mean that Mason is as bad as his reputation says he is, LOL.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 20:51
No, just the other members in each band carried them on their back :D
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:08
Horizons wrote:
No, just the other members in each band carried them on their back :D |
And yet, here at PA, 3 of the top 10 albums are by Floyd (WYWH, DSOTM, Animals), while in the "greatest songs of each year" polls, Floyd's tracks have been voted the best of their respective years *6 TIMES*! (And maybe a seventh, if "High Hopes" wins.) No one else has even come close. Not too shabby, considering they had a dummer they had to "carry on their back."
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:16
jude111 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. | But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band. |
I know that Gilmour claimed to lay down the bass on many Floyd tracks for THE WALL, and perhaps prior albums. I have a few doubts about this, though. For one thing, Waters really did write nearly all the music for THE WALL. In my opinion, Waters is a much more talented musician than he is generally given credit for. (As a guitarist, I'm impressed by compositions like "Cirrus Minor" and "Goodbye Blue Sky," and was astonished to learn that Waters, not Gilmour, wrote those pieces of music. Ditto "Hey You," which, if you are a guitarist and can play this, must admire its chord progression, phrasing, and overall musical structure.)
I think Mason's important as well. I mean, he's no Peart, sure. But Floyd was all about spaces between notes, less is more... Gilmour's solos were at half-speed, the Mason's beats, too... alot of space, haha. I wouldn't *want* Neil Peart in Floyd. It would sound like... I don't know, Eloy perhaps. (Who were good too :-) |
However, it is two different things to write the music and to perform it. As it is two different things if the music is complex and if it is enjoyable. Now, I already stated that as far as writing I consider Waters essential for Floyd (and on the singing department too). As far as playing the bass, well they didn't need more anyways, and when they needed, Gilmour was a perfect fit if the sories are true. At least about the bass parts on Hey You, I do believe they are played by Gilmour, and I do like them a lot; and Waters surely wrote the guitar parts on that song, but surely it was Gilmour who played them, not Waters. I'm not really sure about other bass parts that Gilmour might have played for Floyd, except on "One of this Days", the beginning of which I understand was played by both Gilmour and Waters, and involved some overdubs. And indeed Waters wrote most of the Wall (as well as all of the Final Cut), and that's just the basis on which I say they were all important, because it shows in this two albums that they lacked the input from Gilmour and Wright, and not for the best, in my opinion.
As for Mason, what I meant about not knowing how important he was for the band is on the writing, or the sound of the band. Indeed, the band didn't need anything more, but I would guess there would be other drummers capable of playing at the right speed and so on... though I may be wrong, he might just as well have been the perfect fit for the band. As a matter of fact, I do love his drumming on some of the earlier songs, like "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun", specially the live versions, and I wish he had done more of that sort of drumming withing the band (though it might have been out of place from Dark Side of the Moon and aftewards).
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:19
No, I don't think Pink Floyd had to carry Mason on their back, because they didn't need anything flashier than him. As you previously said, it would have been out of place. For that matter, I don't think the Beatles needed anything more than Ringo on their band either.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:37
Indeed. Mason's early work isn't too shabby though.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:38
While I prefer Ferguson-era Camel (who doesn't?), I believe Sinclair is a better bassist... he gets my vote.
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Posted By: RedNightmareKing
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 21:52
Waters is my favorite IMO. They are all very good, but the funky bass parts on Echoes and AHM drive me nuts. And the use of effects on One of These Days is just superb...
------------- I consider drone metal to be progressive...
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 22:03
RedNightmareKing wrote:
Waters is my favorite IMO. They are all very good, but the funky bass parts on Echoes and AHM drive me nuts. And the use of effects on One of These Days is just superb...
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Though the effects, and some of the bass playing, on "One of These Days" is suposed to have been Gilmour's doing.
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 22:05
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. | But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band. |
I know that Gilmour claimed to lay down the bass on many Floyd tracks for THE WALL, and perhaps prior albums. I have a few doubts about this, though. For one thing, Waters really did write nearly all the music for THE WALL. In my opinion, Waters is a much more talented musician than he is generally given credit for. (As a guitarist, I'm impressed by compositions like "Cirrus Minor" and "Goodbye Blue Sky," and was astonished to learn that Waters, not Gilmour, wrote those pieces of music. Ditto "Hey You," which, if you are a guitarist and can play this, must admire its chord progression, phrasing, and overall musical structure.)
I think Mason's important as well. I mean, he's no Peart, sure. But Floyd was all about spaces between notes, less is more... Gilmour's solos were at half-speed, the Mason's beats, too... alot of space, haha. I wouldn't *want* Neil Peart in Floyd. It would sound like... I don't know, Eloy perhaps. (Who were good too :-) |
However, it is two different things to write the music and to perform it. As it is two different things if the music is complex and if it is enjoyable. Now, I already stated that as far as writing I consider Waters essential for Floyd (and on the singing department too). As far as playing the bass, well they didn't need more anyways, and when they needed, Gilmour was a perfect fit if the sories are true. At least about the bass parts on Hey You, I do believe they are played by Gilmour, and I do like them a lot; and Waters surely wrote the guitar parts on that song, but surely it was Gilmour who played them, not Waters. I'm not really sure about other bass parts that Gilmour might have played for Floyd, except on "One of this Days", the beginning of which I understand was played by both Gilmour and Waters, and involved some overdubs. And indeed Waters wrote most of the Wall (as well as all of the Final Cut), and that's just the basis on which I say they were all important, because it shows in this two albums that they lacked the input from Gilmour and Wright, and not for the best, in my opinion. As for Mason, what I meant about not knowing how important he was for the band is on the writing, or the sound of the band. Indeed, the band didn't need anything more, but I would guess there would be other drummers capable of playing at the right speed and so on... though I may be wrong, he might just as well have been the perfect fit for the band. As a matter of fact, I do love his drumming on some of the earlier songs, like "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun", specially the live versions, and I wish he had done more of that sort of drumming withing the band (though it might have been out of place from Dark Side of the Moon and aftewards). |
Glad to meet a fellow Floyd fan :-)
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Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 22:09
Dellinger wrote:
RedNightmareKing wrote:
Waters is my favorite IMO. They are all very good, but the funky bass parts on Echoes and AHM drive me nuts. And the use of effects on One of These Days is just superb...
|
Though the effects, and some of the bass playing, on "One of These Days" is suposed to have been Gilmour's doing. |
I saw an interview with Waters on youtube recently, in which he talked about going to college as a young man... When the interviewer asked if he had met Gilmour at college, Waters scoffed, "Gilmour isn't a university-educated bloke," or something to that effect. It really rubbed me the wrong way. But it made me think about the divisions in Floyd in a whole new way...
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Posted By: Submach1ne
Date Posted: January 17 2013 at 22:23
I'm gonna go with Jannick Top on this one, he;s got some funky basslines.
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 02:52
Bert Ruiter.
------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel
silivren penna míriel
o menel aglar elenath!
Na-chaered palan-díriel
o galadhremmin ennorath,
Fanuilos, le linnathon
nef aear, sí nef aearon!
|
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 04:01
jude111 wrote:
I saw an interview with Waters on youtube recently, in
which he talked about going to college as a young man... When the
interviewer asked if he had met Gilmour at college, Waters scoffed,
"Gilmour isn't a university-educated bloke," or something to that
effect. It really rubbed me the wrong way. But it made me think about
the divisions in Floyd in a whole new way... |
well from
what I understand Gilmour was the only one in the band who didn't come
from a relatively wealthy background so Waters probably sees him as more
like 'common folk' or something. Sure sounds like something Roger and
his ego would do
------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 07:47
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. | But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band. |
I know that Gilmour claimed to lay down the bass on many Floyd tracks for THE WALL, and perhaps prior albums. I have a few doubts about this, though. For one thing, Waters really did write nearly all the music for THE WALL. In my opinion, Waters is a much more talented musician than he is generally given credit for. (As a guitarist, I'm impressed by compositions like "Cirrus Minor" and "Goodbye Blue Sky," and was astonished to learn that Waters, not Gilmour, wrote those pieces of music. Ditto "Hey You," which, if you are a guitarist and can play this, must admire its chord progression, phrasing, and overall musical structure.)
I think Mason's important as well. I mean, he's no Peart, sure. But Floyd was all about spaces between notes, less is more... Gilmour's solos were at half-speed, the Mason's beats, too... alot of space, haha. I wouldn't *want* Neil Peart in Floyd. It would sound like... I don't know, Eloy perhaps. (Who were good too :-) |
However, it is two different things to write the music and to perform it. As it is two different things if the music is complex and if it is enjoyable. Now, I already stated that as far as writing I consider Waters essential for Floyd (and on the singing department too). As far as playing the bass, well they didn't need more anyways, and when they needed, Gilmour was a perfect fit if the sories are true. At least about the bass parts on Hey You, I do believe they are played by Gilmour, and I do like them a lot; and Waters surely wrote the guitar parts on that song, but surely it was Gilmour who played them, not Waters. I'm not really sure about other bass parts that Gilmour might have played for Floyd, except on "One of this Days", the beginning of which I understand was played by both Gilmour and Waters, and involved some overdubs. And indeed Waters wrote most of the Wall (as well as all of the Final Cut), and that's just the basis on which I say they were all important, because it shows in this two albums that they lacked the input from Gilmour and Wright, and not for the best, in my opinion.
As for Mason, what I meant about not knowing how important he was for the band is on the writing, or the sound of the band. Indeed, the band didn't need anything more, but I would guess there would be other drummers capable of playing at the right speed and so on... though I may be wrong, he might just as well have been the perfect fit for the band. As a matter of fact, I do love his drumming on some of the earlier songs, like "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun", specially the live versions, and I wish he had done more of that sort of drumming withing the band (though it might have been out of place from Dark Side of the Moon and aftewards). |
I don't know where the notion that Waters wrote the guitar parts for Hey You comes from because according to Mason, Roger NEVER interfered with the guitar parts. Not even on The Final Cut.
Gilmour also plays bass on Pigs, Sheep and parts of Shine On. There are a few more that I don't remember right now. And for an obscure fact; the intro to Money is played both with Roger on bass and Gilmour on guitar. It's what gives it that "fat" sound.
I like Waters' bass playing though. He keeps a steady pace. I went to see a PF tribute band this summer and they played Dogs. They did it wee bit too slow which made it almost impossible to listen too. It was then it struck me that Waters has a funky groove that I enjoy.
As for Mason's importance in the band, he was the one who often was in charge of the sound effects. And I can't think of a better drummer for Floyd. The guy's got taste and class and he knows when enough is enough.
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 08:17
I totally agree, especially about Mason who's also a great producer. (Gong's Shamal just to mention one album)
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 17:20
Top followed by J H-H and Sinclair
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 18:48
jude111 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
jude111 wrote:
Seriously, Waters. He had a kind of style that was his own, and instantly recognizable. That slow thump with drummer Mason (also under-rated). He might not be Jaco, or Wetton or Geddy for that matter... but then, that wouldn't be Floyd, would it? He was instrumental to the sound of the band. | But I somehow like better the bass sound from Gilmour, or the bass sounds used on Pink Floyd after Waters left. Of course, without Waters Pink Floyd wouldn't have achieved even a fraction of what they did, so it was much better having him as a creative force and a bass player than not having him at all. But for what it's worth, I believe Pink Floyd without either Waters, Gilmour, or Wright wouldn't have achieved a fraction of what they achieved together, it's only Mason that I'm more doubtful about the importance of his input to the band. |
I know that Gilmour claimed to lay down the bass on many Floyd tracks for THE WALL, and perhaps prior albums. I have a few doubts about this, though. For one thing, Waters really did write nearly all the music for THE WALL. In my opinion, Waters is a much more talented musician than he is generally given credit for. (As a guitarist, I'm impressed by compositions like "Cirrus Minor" and "Goodbye Blue Sky," and was astonished to learn that Waters, not Gilmour, wrote those pieces of music. Ditto "Hey You," which, if you are a guitarist and can play this, must admire its chord progression, phrasing, and overall musical structure.)
I think Mason's important as well. I mean, he's no Peart, sure. But Floyd was all about spaces between notes, less is more... Gilmour's solos were at half-speed, the Mason's beats, too... alot of space, haha. I wouldn't *want* Neil Peart in Floyd. It would sound like... I don't know, Eloy perhaps. (Who were good too :-) | However, it is two different things to write the music and to perform it. As it is two different things if the music is complex and if it is enjoyable. Now, I already stated that as far as writing I consider Waters essential for Floyd (and on the singing department too). As far as playing the bass, well they didn't need more anyways, and when they needed, Gilmour was a perfect fit if the sories are true. At least about the bass parts on Hey You, I do believe they are played by Gilmour, and I do like them a lot; and Waters surely wrote the guitar parts on that song, but surely it was Gilmour who played them, not Waters. I'm not really sure about other bass parts that Gilmour might have played for Floyd, except on "One of this Days", the beginning of which I understand was played by both Gilmour and Waters, and involved some overdubs. And indeed Waters wrote most of the Wall (as well as all of the Final Cut), and that's just the basis on which I say they were all important, because it shows in this two albums that they lacked the input from Gilmour and Wright, and not for the best, in my opinion. As for Mason, what I meant about not knowing how important he was for the band is on the writing, or the sound of the band. Indeed, the band didn't need anything more, but I would guess there would be other drummers capable of playing at the right speed and so on... though I may be wrong, he might just as well have been the perfect fit for the band. As a matter of fact, I do love his drumming on some of the earlier songs, like "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun", specially the live versions, and I wish he had done more of that sort of drumming withing the band (though it might have been out of place from Dark Side of the Moon and aftewards). |
Glad to meet a fellow Floyd fan :-) |
Well, I would think that us Floyd fans are a plague, at least within the Floyd circles.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 18 2013 at 18:55
Well, Gilmour knew Syd Barret before all of the Pink Floyd thing, and suposedly it was Gilmour who taught Barrett to play the guitar. I'm not sure if that was the connection for which he was chosen to step in his place.
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Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: January 19 2013 at 08:41
Dellinger wrote:
Well, Gilmour knew Syd Barret before all of the Pink Floyd thing, and suposedly it was Gilmour who taught Barrett to play the guitar. I'm not sure if that was the connection for which he was chosen to step in his place. |
Here's an interesting little obscure fact about Syd and Gilmour:
"Long before his decline, Syd had struggled with the role of the traditional guitar hero. ...Those close to Barrett at the time believe he was well aware of his shortcomings. Syd had expressed some insecurity about his playing in a letter to his old girlfriend Libby Gausden...mentioning a desire to recruit David Gilmour...but bemoaning the fact that Gilmour had his own band."
The quotation is taken from the book Pigs Might Fly by Mark Blake.
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Posted By: QuestionableScum
Date Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:07
Richard Sinclair with Jannick Top as a close second.
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:23
silverpot wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Well, Gilmour knew Syd Barret before all of the Pink Floyd thing, and suposedly it was Gilmour who taught Barrett to play the guitar. I'm not sure if that was the connection for which he was chosen to step in his place. | Here's an interesting little obscure fact about Syd and Gilmour:"Long before his decline, Syd had struggled with the role of the traditional guitar hero. ...Those close to Barrett at the time believe he was well aware of his shortcomings. Syd had expressed some insecurity about his playing in a letter to his old girlfriend Libby Gausden...mentioning a desire to recruit David Gilmour...but bemoaning the fact that Gilmour had his own band."The quotation is taken from the book Pigs Might Fly by Mark Blake. |
Indeed, Syd's story is a sad story. There's also the song "Jugband Blues", which would seem to indicate that Syd was very much aware of his situation. Some chilling lyrics.
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Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: January 19 2013 at 18:05
^Poor fellow suffered with Schizophrenia, which is not an easy thing to deal with.
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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: January 19 2013 at 18:15
Jannick flippin Top - The guy is an absolute monster. I mean, check out that bass in De Futura - filleted and saturated. Probabaly the only guy on this list that's really in league of his own. Rutherford was pretty good too, so was Bert.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 20 2013 at 00:48
Gandalff wrote:
Neu!mann wrote:
...and where the heck is Ray Shulman on this list..? The Gentle Giant bassist was arguably a more inventive player than any of the above..! |
Please read properly my introducing post. He belongs to the Top Bass Group. < id="foxcub_translator_popup_win" style="visibility: ; width: 0px; height: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px;"> | Indeed !! Ray S is an incredible bass player.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 20 2013 at 00:51
Fox On The Rocks wrote:
Jannick flippin Top - The guy is an absolute monster. I mean, check out that bass in De Futura - filleted and saturated. Probabaly the only guy on this list that's really in league of his own. Rutherford was pretty good too, so was Bert.
| Ooooooooooh - DE FUTURA - probably the most INSANELY bass-heavy epic I've ever heard. Those bass-lines are inhuman and *extremely* difficult to play............I dunno what planet he hails from, but I'm sure glad he landed on this here Earth
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 20 2013 at 01:02
Continuing on the Floyd topic, I believe that Rog never played a fretless bass, so 'A Pillow Of Winds' must have Gilmour on bass. Mason's drumming style is crucial to Floyd music. In fact, limited talent doth not hamper creativity - Mason contributed more than just drums to Floyd, just like their interest in architecture, the music of Floyd is built from simple foundations and reached for the sky. Gilmour is no Holdsworth, who cares, his long, sustained notes and attack are just heavenly. Wright was an excellent keyboardist, 'nuff said. I love Floyd, and owe it all to Floyd.......
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Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: January 21 2013 at 11:04
I will go with Jefrrey Hammond Hammond Hammond Hammond
------------- Prog On!
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 21 2013 at 14:46
Posted By: mongofa
Date Posted: January 23 2013 at 20:51
HOLGER CZUKAY FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!!!
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Posted By: Melomaniac
Date Posted: January 24 2013 at 13:00
Many great bass players here, but as a bass player myself, I'd have to say the one who's playing grabs me the most among these is Doug Ferguson, especially on three of the 4 Camel albums he's played on, namely Mirage and the classics The Snow Goose and Moonmadness. Amazing basslines in there. Sinclair also had great moments with Camel, especially on Rain Dances and A Live Record, don't know much about what he previously did with Caravan though.
------------- "One likes to believe in the freedom of Music" - Neil Peart, The Spirit of Radio
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 24 2013 at 15:49
Melomaniac wrote:
Many great bass players here, but as a bass player myself, I'd have to say the one who's playing grabs me the most among these is Doug Ferguson, especially on three of the 4 Camel albums he's played on, namely Mirage and the classics The Snow Goose and Moonmadness. Amazing basslines in there. Sinclair also had great moments with Camel, especially on Rain Dances and A Live Record, don't know much about what he previously did with Caravan though. |
Sinclair with Caravan was fantastic. That's why I don't like his work with Camel that was of a lower level, IMO. I suggest checking also Hatfield and the North and the stupendous "Before A Word Is Said" with Gowen, Tomkins and Miller, a very moving album (check the story).
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: January 24 2013 at 16:45
Where's Geddy Lee and Mike Rutherford?
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Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: January 25 2013 at 01:59
^^^^Read the original post you'll see that Gandalff mentions Geddy Lee and Rutherford is on the list I think
------------- “War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: January 25 2013 at 05:02
Richard Sinclair is an underrated virtuoso !!! For me, I say his 'finest hour' comes in the form of Hatfield & The North's 'Rotter's Club'. Great tone and technique, complex lines and just plain amazing all 'round. For a carpenter (by trade), he is an astonishing bassist.
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Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: February 16 2013 at 15:58
I have always appreciated Doug Ferguson's bass playing, and I consider it to be a great merit to Camel's overall sound.
I love Roger Water's bass playing too.
------------- I am currently digging:
Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz!
Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 02:20
That's a cracker-jacker ... I'm gonna have to think about it.
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Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 02:36
Hammond-Hammond. John Glasscock would be my favorite Tull bassist, though. (I guess he'd be a not-other bassist probably)
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 15:34
I went with Nic Mozart Potter...not so much for his studio work but his live work on "Vital" and "Room Temperature Live" is amazing.
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 15:41
The.Crimson.King wrote:
I went with Nic Mozart Potter...not so much for his studio work but his live work on "Vital" and "Room Temperature Live" is amazing. | Mozart was a monster on those.......
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Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 16:40
Tom Ozric wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
I went with Nic Mozart Potter...not so much for his studio work but his live work on "Vital" and "Room Temperature Live" is amazing. | Mozart was a monster on those....... |
Ya the ballsy fuzz tone he gets on "Vital" is incredible.
Funny story, when I saw the Room Temperature Live tour in San Fran there was an amusing dynamic going on between PH and Mozart. Seemed whenever the band was a little off timing-wise PH would give Mozart these bizarre looks like "WTF are you doing?" 
------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987
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Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 17:17
I'm partial to Mike Rutherford.
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Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 30 2013 at 22:55
Any way to add Eloy's Klaus-Peter Matziol to the poll? 
------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay
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Posted By: The Mystical
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 00:27
Mike Howlett is pretty cool.
------------- I am currently digging:
Hawkwind, Rare Bird, Gong, Tangerine Dream, Khan, Iron Butterfly, and all things canterbury and hard-psych. I also love jazz!
Please drop me a message with album suggestions.
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 06:28
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Tom Ozric wrote:
The.Crimson.King wrote:
I went with Nic Mozart Potter...not so much for his studio work but his live work on "Vital" and "Room Temperature Live" is amazing. | Mozart was a monster on those....... |
Ya the ballsy fuzz tone he gets on "Vital" is incredible.
Funny story, when I saw the Room Temperature Live tour in San Fran there was an amusing dynamic going on between PH and Mozart. Seemed whenever the band was a little off timing-wise PH would give Mozart these bizarre looks like "WTF are you doing?"  | 'Vital' is the proggiest punk music I've ever heard (or punkiest prog, if you wish). Relentless is the word. I thought 'Room Temperature' was brutal. Stu Gordon's screeching violin + Mozart's monster-bass + Hammill's no-holds-barred delivery = sonic insanity, madness and mayhem...................
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 06:29
The Mystical wrote:
Mike Howlett is pretty cool. | Yes, he is
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 06:36
If John Entwistle had played in a proggier band he might be right up there with Chris Squire in the progger's top bassists rankings.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 06:47
One more for the top Pitty Percy Jones isn't here though. What an incredible bassist he is!
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 07:33
Another vote for Rutherford
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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 14:58
Gerinski wrote:
If John Entwistle had played in a proggier band he might be right up there with Chris Squire in the progger's top bassists rankings. |
Entwistle's way better though. Squire's not even that good. He had some good lines, but Entwistles really knows to drive the music, and also as a soloist, the guy slays.
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