The Beginning Of Soft Machine Decline
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91248
Printed Date: February 23 2025 at 08:34
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Topic: The Beginning Of Soft Machine Decline
Posted By: zravkapt
Subject: The Beginning Of Soft Machine Decline
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 10:24
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When did these guys go downhill in your opinion? Also, how many other groups gradually lost all their original members one by one? ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Replies:
Posted By: QuestionableScum
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 10:38
| After Robert Wyatt left. I really like their first four albums. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 10:41
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Once upon a time, I probably would have said "after Hugh Hopper left", but now I'd have to say "after Mike Ratledge left". Truth is, although the many bands are different, I don't really see a true drop in overall quality in their music. Soft Machine is more like three different bands, all of which I like. However, I think that after Ratledge was gone, there was very little sense of adventure remaining, and those are the albums I listen to the least. I still think "Softs" is a good album; "Land of Cockayne", however, is not. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 11:06
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I'm not a big fan of their work after Robert left, but that doesn't mean that that's when they started experiencing their decline. One might as well say that their decline happened when Land of Cockayne came out (though, in all due honesty, I haven't heard the album. I just know it's not very popular with lots of Softs listeners). Or maybe they didn't even have a decline. But if they did have a decline, I would say that it came about when Robert left, though it's hard to tell.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 11:18
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I wasn't aware they went into decline. I like all the stuff. Did they do some commercially successful sell out albums that I am not aware of? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: progtapper
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 11:59
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Sorry folks, but I can't follow this negativity. There's no decline at all! I love The Soft Machine! And I love Soft Machine Legacy! (There's a new CD comming out on Moonjune Records next year. Hope I can see them live again.) |
Posted By: QuestionableScum
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 12:13
For me, after Wyatt left they started making fairly pedestrian jazz-rock/fusion. It is not that it is bad, but I just much prefer the stuff with Wyatt. |
Slartibartfast wrote:Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 12:28
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I don't really think they went into any serious decline (needed a title), but Rubber Riff and Land Of Cockayne can hardly be considered 'Soft Machine' albums. I was never a huge fan of the Dean era but most of their albums have quality music on them. I've found that Karl Jenkins is the factor which splits Softs fans: some only like what came before him; others only like what they did after he joined. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 12:50
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That's quite true. Jenkins brought a whole new style of writing to the band - namely, the "one riff in impossible time signature repeated over and over while someone solos over it" style. I used to think it was cheap and boring, but I've since changed my mind.. And though he was a reed player, he didn't play alto or soprano like Elton did, he played either oboe or baritone sax most of the time. I actually prefer Jenkins' soloing style to Dean's. Dean is a more free player, but I enjoy the more melodic phrases that Jenkins comes up with over those complicated riffs.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 13:16
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Bundles and Softs are great albums, perhaps less experimental than the first 6 but..... Land of Cockayne is pretty awful though.......Hopper was great but Babbington just as marvelous. Wyatt was brilliant but Marshall no slouch. But when Ratledge left....er Karl Jenkins? No contest, sorry. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 13:43
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Thier only bad (studio) album is LOC. So I guess the last category for me. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 14:20
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I like everything including Land of Cockayne.Love me some Soft Machine. also, why all the hate for LOC, guys? I mean I can agree that it's their weakest album and it's not anything amazing but I always dug it. ------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 15:33
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I've only heard the albums with Wyatt, and they're all good. What disappoints me a bit about Fourth is the rather dry and clinical recording. The previous Soft Machine albums sound like a strange nightmare; Fourth sounds like just another jazz fusion album. It has some good music on it though, especially "Teeth". I still hope to check out the rest of their albums at some point. I wonder how it will take until these become the new survivor polls and somebody makes a "The Beginning of the Decline Polls Decline" poll. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 17:27
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 17:34
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It's kind of a wonder I'm a Soft Machine fan at all, really. My first album was "Fourth", and I'm not really a fan of jazz. Something about the sound intrigued me, though, and I ended up listening to it a lot, acquiring a taste for "their jazz" if not anyone else's (ok, Zappa's too I guess). Then came "Third", which was a breeze to get into after surviving "Fourth", from a prog fan perspective. Then came "Fifth", which at the time was pushing the jazz stuff a little too far for my liking, and for a while I didn't really venture past there. I love them all now. I just dig the guys, period. I want to ask them out for ice cream.
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 17:55
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I just love their evolution. from the more whimsical Wyatt/Ayers days to the masterpiece that is Third, and then onward to the jazz fusion and settling down a bit towards the end with more electronics and stuff. also just noticed one of the choices is "After Daevid Allen left'. I wonder if there's anyone who would actually vote for that? It would have to be someone who loves Gong but doesn't like Soft Machine at all haha ------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 18:09
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That option should be booby-trapped to catch trolls. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: December 30 2012 at 18:36
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yeah haha there might as well be an option for saying SM declined as soon as The Wilde Flowers split up :P
------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: December 31 2012 at 18:09
| I say that the Softs' 'decline' happened when Ratledge left. It wasn't so much a decline as it was more of a change of direction under Mr Jenkins' thumb, and that direction happened to leave Canterbury and head for London. The album 'Softs' is still quite excellent, with Mike in a guest role (and there's live footage from this period - Newcastle Jazz Festival '76 - with Percy Jones filling in for an absent Babbington on bass !!), but Alive and Well In Paris and Land Of Cockayne contain somewhat generic Fusion/Fusack material, despite the high quality of musicianship. |
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: December 31 2012 at 18:11
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yeah Ratledge was definitely a key part of the SM machine sound, god how I love his playing. I didn't mind Jenkins on the SM albums he was on but I tried checking out some of his solo work once and it was incredibly dull
------------- http://sumdeus.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 00:36
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I'd say it was when Wyatt left. Afterwords there was a slow, steady decline in quality, broken only by Bundles. ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 04:55
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other groups who lost all the original members include The Velvet Underground, Sugababes, Napalm Death (who then also lost everyone who replaced the original members) The original Dubliners have all died. Fairport Convention spent some years in the 70s with no original members. The Albion Band were recently revived with 100% new lineup. ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 05:00
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It may be down to me being a drummer and my preference for feel and 'looseness' over technical merit, but I've always associated the real sound of The Softs with Wyatt's drumming. Add to that his hauntingly beautiful vocals. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 11:25
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Has to be after Wyatt left. Such a loss, no band could survive. ------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |