Jethro Tull vs Led Zeppelin
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Topic: Jethro Tull vs Led Zeppelin
Posted By: Icarium
Subject: Jethro Tull vs Led Zeppelin
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 08:12
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two bluesy. folk, heavy epic bands, that expanded and evolved rock as we know it, with progressive music, progressive rock, and heavy rock, both bands went very popular, they also shared stage at a point as Jethro warmed up for Zeppelin and Ian had said he was very jealus at Plant couse he had every thing Ian had not as a lead man, both bands are really good who appeals to lots of people im i the onl one who find them to have similar aproahc on the early stage?? -------------  
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Replies:
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 08:20
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Similar early on in some respects, I guess.
Anyway, I prefer Zep by a mile. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 08:28
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I have never been a big fan of Zeppelin apart from a couple of song (although they are growing on me with time.) Tull is one of my favorite bands ever. ------------- 
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 08:33
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LeD Zep it is then! ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: The Bearded Bard
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 08:35
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Both bands started out as blues-rock bands, and both had elements of folk in their later music, but the similarities stops there, IMO. My two favourite bands ever. Love both dearly, and I can't choose between them, so I went with the "both" option.
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Posted By: Ytse_Jam
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 09:06
| Tull. Much more various, and TAAB is not even comparable with any LZ album. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 09:21
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OK. Tull will probably not win this, since L Z holds a very high level of popularity, but Tull's music is indeed better, not from a "Personal Taste" point of view, but on composition, orchestration, arrangements, etc. Tull gets my vote of course, and this is from "Personal Taste" point of view, though L Z is also a great band.
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 09:21
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Led Zeppelin was one of the bedrock bands of my youth -- probably the foundation for everything "heavy" that I grew to like later. As popular bands in the 70s went, they were pretty much untouchable. I like Jethro Tull a lot, but mainly just for a handful of early albums. I like "Passion Play" better than any of Zep's albums. But on balance, my choice is clear: Zeppelin. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Adams Bolero
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 09:33
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Tull all the way. ------------- ''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.'' - Albert Camus |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 10:11
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Hmm, Zep. Not a big Tull fan I guess. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 10:35
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Zeppelin. I hate Jethro Tull. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 10:57
Led Zeppelin has never recorded a total crap, unlike Tull. Maybe it's because Zeppelin had disbanded just before, for Rock music somewhat unfortunate 80's... ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: Barah86
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 11:13
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Tull of course... ------------- Death seed blind man's greed Poets' starving children bleed Nothing he's got he really needs Twenty first century schizoid man. 
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Posted By: Fox On The Rocks
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 11:33
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I hardly ever touch either anymore, but back in my early Rock days, Zeppelin were like my gods - there was just like this certain mystic about them that I really admired. Now, I must admit Tull has the best album, Thick As A Brick, but overall Zeppelin takes the cup by far. Every single album they created is a classic, and well with Tull, I can only think of three really.
------------- 
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Posted By: glenn_ecko
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 11:52
| Love that Jimmy |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 11:53
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I like Led Zep, but Tull are just better. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:04
| You can't really compare the two, you can only state your preference on the basis of prejudice. IMO, Tull are miles more inventive and interesting than Led Zeppelin, who, despite great musicianship, rely mainly on brute force and bombast. Having said that, I love "Kashmir" - blurred lines! |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:22
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I much prefer Jethro Tull; much more diverse than Zep IMO. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: Eria Tarka
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:32
The opposite of this.
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Barah86 wrote:Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:32
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Tull by distances humans can't imagine. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:40
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Not a big fan of either of them, but Zeppelin
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:44
| Jethro Tull |
Posted By: The-Winkler
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 14:56
Tull for me, very original band ,Led Zeppelin have faded badly in my view, can't get past the fact they are a band who built their career on plagiarism
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Posted By: Undercover Man
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 16:47
| Tull, no Zepplin album is better than TAAB and Aqualung. |
Posted By: 33rpm
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 17:30
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Jethro Tull is my favorite band period! I do think Led Zeppelin was a great rock band! ------------- Vinyl just sounds better!! |
Posted By: geneyesontle
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 17:47
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Tull by far. Zeppelin is also great but will never be at the level of Tull. ------------- Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb - Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle |
Posted By: Chozal
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 18:00
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Jethro Tull. Because Jethro Tull. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Infinite-Progability-Drive/141225469388975" rel="nofollow - The Infinite Progability Drive , feeding you daily progressive/weird music for just a like <3 |
Posted By: geneyesontle
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 18:08
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It's only on this site that Jethro Tull can win over Led Zep ------------- Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb - Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 18:14
| I could care less who stole from what - I can simply relate more successfully to the work of Ian Anderson. That BABY BABY BABY OHHH WOMAN OHHH IM CONFUSED AND ICE AND SNOW AND LORD OF THE RINGS BABY OHHHHH sh*t really grates on my nerves. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 19:36
Brilliant, and I agree. Zeppelin for me.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 19:54
 That is a really good summary of LZ lyrics.-------------
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 21:49
| Tull easily. They have alot more jazz and classical influences in their compositions. Ian is a genius composer and I like his voice. As for Zeppelin, they are more like an American rock band using rock n roll and blues influences. Don't like Plants squeely voice though. He runs out of breath alot too. I really like Zeps folk stuff, but Tulls folk is the best ever. I like Tulls heavy stuff more than Zeps too. Just better compositions and better vocals make this an easy decision |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 21:51
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Posted By: dwill123
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 22:03
| Jethro Tull |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 22:21
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I really like many songs of Led Zeppelin, they have so many classics, not all of which I like as much, but those I do like are among the best songs I could think of. However, Jethro Tull has many such songs too, and I have ended up finding many more songs I really like from Tull, and that rocking flute is really wonderful, so I have to go with Tull. I would have thought that here Tull would have the clear advantage in votes, but I guess Zeppelin is just too great a band here. Once I did a poll comparing Zeppelin with Rush, and so far Rush did better, having the clear advantage for a long time. Though last time I saw the poll surfacing around, I think Zeppelin had at last gotten their (minor) lead.
On a bit unrelated question, anyone knows who plays the flute on Stairway to Heaven? I never saw it credited on the album, or anywhere else, and I believe it must be a real flute, not synths. I know both Zeppelin and Tull were on the same studio when Zeppelin recorded the fourth album, so I might like to wonder if by chance it could have been Anderson, though certainly I haven't read anything at all from him saying such thing might have happened. Also, when Zeppelin and Tull toured together, I think it would have been great if Anderson had guested on that song playing the flute live with them, but I believe that never actually happened, quiet a lost oportunity, in my opinion. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 22:24
| Jethro Tull |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 22:26
 That was the end of any friendship between the bands. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 14 2012 at 23:19
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^ Why? What's wrong with Anderson's lyrics + Zep's music? 
 Why?!Me: Not sure. I'm quite familiar with Zep's catalog, and I think I have to work with Tull a little more. No vote so far.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 02:26
JPJ is a multi instrumentalist, so it can be very much he who plays the flute, as he also does the most of the piano, arrangements, and mellotrons, as he have a degree in music, he knows more then play bass, he also can rock a warr bass and chapman stick. -------------
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 06:25
| When I listen to songs such as Heartbreaker, Whole lotta love and Living lovin maid, they sound so outdated. The vocals and guitar just sound yuck. Very daggy and very old. Almost like acdc or early Rush. Replace those songs with Hey hey what can i do and We're gonna groove and the album would have been good. Zep 2 is only good for Thankyou and Ramble on though. Zep 1 sounds alot fresher imo although it's a bit buesy. Plant and Page were alot more listenable in the first album. Good times bad times is just about their best ever song imo. Zep 3 and Houses are my faves. Zep 4 is too commercial for my likings. Zep 1 is decent, Zep 2 pretty unlistenable for half the album. Presence and Graffiti have some cool tracks too. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 06:27
This sums it up well for me too! |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 08:50
I also join in this. Led Zeppelin is a great band, but Tull's music, career, discography, touring history, etc, is quite impressive, much better than Led Zeppelin's.
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Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 11:58
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both are awesome in different ways glad there was a both option  ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 13:43
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Led Zeppelin! -------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: tary
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 14:04
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of course, Jethro Tull!!!!!!!!! Thick as a Brick , a Passion Play, Aqualung, Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses and so many other genius albums! Jethro Tull would beat OVERRATED Led Zeppelin with just Thick As A Brick! Tull never stole music unlike Zeppelin, whose best songs are just stolen from earlier blues bands! |
Posted By: tary
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 14:06
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of course, Jethro Tull!!!!!!!!! Thick as a Brick , a Passion Play, Aqualung, Songs from the Wood, Heavy Horses and so many other genius albums! Jethro Tull would beat OVERRATED Led Zeppelin with just Thick As A Brick! Tull never stole music unlike Zeppelin, whose best songs are just stolen from earlier blues bands! |
Posted By: Josef_K
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 14:30
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I love Aqualung and Thick as a Brick, but haven't got into their other albums yet. Houses of the Holy is one of the best albums I've ever heard, and Physical Graffiti is great as well. Zeppelins earlier albums have their good stuff also, and "Achilles Last Stand" off "Presence" is incredible. So yeah, neither is a band I'm that experienced with but both have released albums I cherish very much, so I'll vote both. ------------- Leave the past to burn, At least that's been his own - Peter Hammill |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 15:23
You convinced me! Going with Tull. Besides, Anderson is one of the best songwriters I've ever known.
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Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 15:41
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I feel like going with Jethro on this one. I like their mix of folk, blues, rock, progressive, very unique stuff. Said that I still think Zeppelin were one of the strongest bands in the 70's.
Oh and they wrote Since I've been loving you!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 19:10
I have read indeed that Led Zeppelin haven't been very supportive of Jethro Tull, even calling them Jethro Dull or something like that when they were touring together. |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 19:13
However, if JPJ had actually played the flute in the studio version, then why did he play that part with keyboards when they played it live. Surely, a flute isn't such a big instrument that he couldn't carry one for that song. For me, the song does sound less appealing on it's live versions, mainly because of the lack of a real flute there. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 19:36
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 19:40
| Still, ... I'm with Tull. Anderson is a great songwriter. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 19:43
| Yes he is |
Posted By: Nash
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 20:51
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like both of them, but ill prefer a little bit more Led Zeppelin ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/sydbarrettg.jpg/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: October 15 2012 at 20:51
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I prefer Tull but Zep is a Titan, no match for poor ol' Jethro.
No vote. ------------- |
Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: October 16 2012 at 14:45
| Jethro for me by a country mile |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 16 2012 at 19:01
I thought Jethro Tull always printed the right credits on the songs on their albums... |
Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: October 17 2012 at 11:32
According to Tull's manager, the title and idea for "Living in the Past" came from a Clouds song in the Scrapbook album. Then again, I wouldn't say Jethro was particularly guilty of robbing Peter, Paul, and Mary, the band seems very generally very original to me.
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Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: October 18 2012 at 15:50
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Isn't that a recorder, not a flute, on the intro to Stairway?
Nevertheless, nothing Ian could contribute would improve that turd (except possibly lyrics about rock critics having sex with underaged boys). Lol kidding, of course. I love Zep but hate that track |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 18 2012 at 17:44
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: October 18 2012 at 18:30
It sounds like a real flute to me, but I might be mistaken, of course. |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 05:38
| It's most definitely a recorder. |
Posted By: WisdomBeginsInWonder
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 07:21
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Jethro Tull,for sure ------------- 
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Posted By: Lifeofprog
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 11:48
That's a tough call,while both bands had their respective roots in folk,blues and rock. Tull was much more of a prog' band.Zep' as latter albums can attest to were more interested in playing music in a rock context.I don't think you can compare the two really,they both are outstanding bands in their own right
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Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 15:38
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Zep
------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 19:15
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Jethro by far. Come on. Thick as a Brick and Aqualung. Zep can't compete with that kind of musicianship ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 20:40
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 22:53
I don't neccesarily disagree with that but then, JT also had the luxury of at least more musician (and my Madison square garden DVD has a line up of six musicians) which does make a difference. Anyhow, as between Plant and Anderson, I know who I prefer and I can't say I prefer Page over Barre, for all that the former is such an influential figure in rock. Cannot call Barlow v/s Bonham, both amazing. I find both a bit excessive in different ways. There's a bit too much of showmanship and not enough composition for my liking, but that's just me and I always say that over the top bands have a place in rock and are quite an important part of the package. I think the fact that Anderson is so versatile gives Tull more options vis-a-vis LZ and their sound is also more British than LZ, which I like. |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 23:17
| The biggest difference isn't the musicians, it's the composers. Ian covers Zeps on his own in that department :D |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: October 19 2012 at 23:22
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Zeppelin I crave often. Tull bores me now, though I enjoyed them when I was a kid. |
Posted By: deckard33
Date Posted: November 01 2012 at 16:02
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Tull by far !!
I never got very excited by Led Zep music. Don't know why ... |
Posted By: Sumdeus
Date Posted: November 01 2012 at 16:26
| Zep for me. I like Tull, but they're not quite as important to me. Zep were one of the first rock'n'roll bands i started idolizing (as I'm sure they were for many) |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: November 02 2012 at 10:40
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This is a both, is and have been for ages amongst those very few band, that I can allway listen to one more time. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: November 02 2012 at 12:43
| Jethro Tull. Led Zeppelin have made a number of songs I love dearly ("The Battle of Evermore", "Stairway to Heaven", "No Quarter", "Achilles' Last Stand", to name a few), but Jethro Tull have made more and they're more consistent on an album basis. There's no Led Zeppelin album that comes close to Aqualung and Thick as a Brick and probably only one (Houses of the Holy) that surpasses Songs from the Wood and Heavy Horses. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: November 02 2012 at 22:03
Jethro Tull. But I also own all Zeppelin's albums. Both great bands, but I think Tull speaks to me more. And of course the lyrics are far better, which aids in the speaking. 
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: November 10 2012 at 22:40
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I find Tull a lot more interesting. Most of their 70's stuff is fantastic. Brick, Aqualung, Heavy Horses, Passion Play, SFTW, Stormwatch. All great albums, though APP can get a bit dull in certain moments. ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: November 10 2012 at 22:46
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i voted zeppelin ------------- 
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Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: November 11 2012 at 02:00
| Tull a definite for me |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: November 11 2012 at 02:14
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Tull by a woodland mile! Songs From The Wood and Stormwatch clinch it (as opposed to clench it). Then you throw TAAB, MITG, Heavy Horses, A and BATB on top of those, and you have many, many hours of fantastic music. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: menawati
Date Posted: November 11 2012 at 11:08
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Love them both equally. ------------- They flutter behind you your possible pasts, Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost. |
Posted By: 2WeeksInSpain
Date Posted: November 25 2012 at 18:35
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both amazing bands. they rock so much. as musicians i'd go with led zep. but tull are more interesting in my opinion as rock band. so overall i'll go with jethro tull. but maybe tomorrow i'll change my mind (it's too close to call lol)
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Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: November 25 2012 at 18:44
Aw man! I can't out-trivia you in this thread I suppose... Three guesses as to who I'd vote for and the first two don't count. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: November 25 2012 at 18:51
Edited to reflect my feelings now ------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: November 25 2012 at 22:31
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Hammer of the gods vs the inventor of the automatic seeding machine in the 18th century. I will go with the agricultural icon. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: November 28 2012 at 17:23
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Led Zep—grooves harder, better players, folk instruments used more convincingly Tull— Thick as a Brick Jethro Tull, no contest! In all seriousness, though, Tull— more melodic, influences more diverse, better vocalist, better stage theatrics, more innovative. Led Zep was still great, though. |
Posted By: mawgojzeta
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 10:58
| Jethro Tull by a long shot! |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 13:29
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I've seen both live, LZ during Houses of the Holy and JT during their War Child tour. Both great live, both have great catalogs. Coin flip once again.
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 21:03
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I saw Led Zeppelin once in 1977. Great show, but a bit scattered - similar in quality to their performance on Celebration Day. Not bad, but there was plenty of room for improvement. They started in the afternoon and, as Plant said, they weren't quite awake yet. I have seen Tull a dozen times and they were always spot on except for once, and that was the second performance of the tour. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 00:00
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The Tull just for "Aqualung", Led Zeppelin are the greatest cover band of all time though,
------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Ludjak
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 08:35
| This is an interesting question, since these two were probably the biggest concert attractions of the 1970s. For me, it's a matter of personal preference; Tull were professionals, and Zeppelin rock stars. I prefer Tull's approach. |
Posted By: farebi_jalebi
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 17:26
| Thick as a brick surpasses all of Zeppelin's work. Jethro Tull for me!! |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 23:18
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Tull.
Zep is good for a non-Prog band, but Tull is Prog. Plus, there's no band better to listen to with a beer in your hand than Tull. |
Posted By: Jabez7
Date Posted: October 18 2013 at 23:53
| They're both great, but I'd go with Tull since there's more diversity. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 09:35
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DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 11:29
Different bands...different styles...both great in their own unique way.
 ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 12:34
| I prefer Jethro to Zep but not a particular fan of either. |
Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: October 19 2013 at 22:23
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I would choose each of Zep's first six albums ahead of any JTull disc. In Through the Out Door, however, ranks far below all of Tull's work. IMHO. ------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 06:31
Yup. ------------- jc |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: October 20 2013 at 10:20
They are so different in style that it's hard to compare them straight up. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |