Progressive Influences
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8899
Printed Date: December 04 2024 at 08:14 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Progressive Influences
Posted By: barbs
Subject: Progressive Influences
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 08:10
There has been a great deal of debate at times about different groups,
particularly from the 70s and even 60s who, it has been argued by some,
should be part of progarchives. Some of these bands are Queen, Deep
Purple, Led Zepplin and even The Beatles.
There is, in most stream posts, a concensus that there was progressive
output to varying degrees by the abovementioned, as well as others and
that their non inclusion is to some, a paradox when other bands such as
Styx and Supertramp (for example) are here. Most however, agree that
they do not belong on the site because their progressive output was
sporadic at best.
Yet there is also a recognition, I believe by many people, that the
influences of some of these bands, who dont quite 'make the grade', is
something to be recognised as part of a more infuential group of
musicians on the progrock movement and its development over the years.
Another group from the late 70s onwards is Metallica, whose influence
on the progmetal genre is heavy indeed.
IMO, the addition of an archive for 'bands who have influenced the
history of prog you won't find on this archive' with an introductory
message telling of the influence of these bands and their connection to
prog and maybe why they didn't quite make it, would IMO provide a
better overall viewpoint.
A list of bands could be submitted and discussed (make the cutoff point
- 1980 if u like) even some controversial ones who are currently listed
but maybe aren't exactly 'pedigree' in THE progarchive.
This site, I do believe, prides itself on its pedigree as a progressive
rock site and attracts some veritable walking encyclopedias on the
subject, such as Dick Heath, to name but one of a number of venerable
members. I am staggered by their knowledge of the subject.
It is an invaluable learning experience to read the posts of forum
members who know what they are talking about, especially for us who
have been around for a long or short time but have not for one reason
or another, dedicated ourselves to the subject to such an extent. I do
not believe myself to be a progsnob at all because I just don't know
enough to be one in the first place, but I do know quality when I see
it and its not about snobbery, it is about maintaining a pedigree in
something wether it be making fine furniture, carpet, wine or cheese.
If the nominal bands can be kept away from the truly accepted ones and
given an access point of their own for interest sake, wouldn't this be
a way of maintaining the integrity of the genre while still recognising
and respecting the roots and influences and also adding more
discussion/talking points and accessible information related to the
music we like listening to,
(and arguing about)
If you read this, thanks for taking the time. Please respond with your thoughts if any.
------------- Eternity
|
Replies:
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 08:27
It is certainly an interesting idea.
I get tired of people constantly trying to get their favorite semi-progressive bands accepted as actual prog. Some folks on this site seem to have a certain fear of liking non-prog bands, so they want to make sure all their favorites are prog. Well, some of them are just simply not prog, but many did have important influences both on and from the prog genre.
I like this idea because this site is a resource for finding new music that you might like. We come here to learn about music and get listening advice from (somewhat) like-minded individuals. So, if there are other bands that are popular amongst people with similar listening tastes (i.e. everyone on this site; i mean, would we all be here if we didnt have a lot in common musically?), perhaps they should be included in their own section for reference so people could appreciate them as well and learn about them.
The point is, we all like a lot of the same music and want to learn about more, so expanding the database (as long as it is kept organized) should not only be acceptable, but should be a goal.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic
ALTAIC
"Oceans Down You'll Lie"
coming soon
|
Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 08:38
GoldenSpiral wrote:
It is certainly an interesting idea.
I get tired of people constantly trying to get their favorite
semi-progressive bands accepted as actual prog. Some folks on
this site seem to have a certain fear of liking non-prog bands, so they
want to make sure all their favorites are prog. Well, some of
them are just simply not prog, but many did have important influences
both on and from the prog genre.
I like this idea because this site is a resource for finding new
music that you might like. We come here to learn about music and
get listening advice from (somewhat) like-minded individuals. So,
if there are other bands that are popular amongst people with
similar listening tastes (i.e. everyone on this site; i mean, would we
all be here if we didnt have a lot in common musically?), perhaps they
should be included in their own section for reference so people could
appreciate them as well and learn about them.
The point is, we all like a lot of the same music and want to learn
about more, so expanding the database (as long as it is kept organized)
should not only be acceptable, but should be a goal. |
Thanks for the positive comments. As a
reference point and a means of separation for tenuous appointments, I
think it can only add to the quality and scope of the site. As you say,
we all like a lot of the same music and it should help with a better
understanding and appreciation of progrock.
------------- Eternity
|
Posted By: FragileDT
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 09:46
I love the idea also. I think it would be great to have bands such as Queen and Zeppelin on this site, with reviewed albums and have the prog fans put their input in these influential bands. It definitely would be a great idea.
|
Posted By: Bilek
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:15
Good idea, Dave! I took time to read your suggestion, and to my shame, I thought of a similar idea but did not come up with... I'll tell my additional suggestions anyway:
The "non-prog", or "prog-related" section might include only proggy albums (not the band's whole catalogue) and be reviewed by site admins, or at least by progarchives collaborators. I also think it might be helpful to provide opportunity for the rest to suggest bands or albums to include in that section.
or, a very distinct sub-genre entitled "proto-prog", "close-to-prog", or whatever you might suggest, might be included, with some of the bands-artists I mentioned below, and reviewers review them as usual, but knowing it is not definitely prog. (reviews might be excluded from the front page, or a distinct sign could be placed on the album descriptions etc.)
I also believe it is about time to include two new subgenres, heavy prog and pomp-prog (at least the first one), both are mentioned in the history of prog section and does not appear as seperate genres. That's why Uriah Heep is listed under symphonic, to which it has absolutely no connection, apart from Salisbury of course (and even in that, on the title track only). Given that UH was first under prog-metal genre, its removal from this to that is simply ridiculous!!! Other bands in these genres are often filed under art-rock category, and causes confusion with bands like Procol Harum, Supertramp, Moody Blues, Saga, A.Parsons Pr. etc, which are either more poppy, or "proto-prog". (I'm talking about those who have no idea of a particular band is like, and try to figure out what it may be like from its genre... You can have an absolute idea of a band when, for instance, it is filed under "prog-metal", or "Krautrock" category, but not in Art-Rock...). Since Electronic is also included as a genre (otherwise TD and Kraftwerk could well fit into Krautrock category...), I think it is also necessary to discriminate harder oriented or "pompous" bands from mainstream art-rock acts...
I am insistent on my idea to get Deep Purple and Jon Lord here, not just because "constantly trying to get my favorite semi-progressive band accepted as actual prog", as Golden Spiral suggests, and I don't have "a certain fear of liking non-prog bands, so want to make sure all my favorites are prog", either. As an example, I can say I like Led Zep, Black Sabbath, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Alice Cooper etc, and despite all of these bands' prog tendencies, I don't try to get them into archives (though in a poll for metallica my vote would be pro...). These bands (along with The Doors, The Who, Beatles etc.) would be perfect samples for the section barbs suggested in the first place... (I certainly agree with Golden Spiral anyway, isn't it those guys who had Radiohead placed here in the first place?!?!?)
My claims and some other pros and cons for DP (and Jon Lord) are in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8895&PN=1 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8895&a mp;PN=1 please have a look...
keep on proggin'
------------- Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret: Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
|
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 14:09
All:
Something of this nature is already being looked into by the admin group. However, keep up the discussion, as it will help us to properly define the parameters.
Peace.
|
Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 23:37
FragileDT wrote:
I love the idea also. I think it would be great to have bands such as Queen and Zeppelin on this site, with reviewed albums and have the prog fans put their input in these influential bands. It definitely would be a great idea. |
------------- Eternity
|
Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 00:01
Bilek wrote:
Good idea, Dave! I took time to read your suggestion, and to my shame, I thought of a similar idea but did not come up with... I'll tell my additional suggestions anyway:
The "non-prog", or "prog-related" section might include only proggy albums (not the band's whole catalogue) and be reviewed by site admins, or at least by progarchives collaborators. I also think it might be helpful to provide opportunity for the rest to suggest bands or albums to include in that section.
I was hoping that by the time this stream had exhausted itself (not a huge response at the moment) most members would have suggested refinements to the idea (Maani has already said they are considering something and encouraged feedback) which would include album suggestions or even EPs.
or, a very distinct sub-genre entitled "proto-prog", "close-to-prog", or whatever you might suggest, might be included, with some of the bands-artists I mentioned below, and reviewers review them as usual, but knowing it is not definitely prog. (reviews might be excluded from the front page, or a distinct sign could be placed on the album descriptions etc.)
I also believe it is about time to include two new subgenres, heavy prog and pomp-prog (at least the first one), both are mentioned in the history of prog section and does not appear as seperate genres. That's why Uriah Heep is listed under symphonic, to which it has absolutely no connection, apart from Salisbury of course (and even in that, on the title track only). Given that UH was first under prog-metal genre, its removal from this to that is simply ridiculous!!!
I am not certain Bilek, if you would be able to muster the support for extra subgenres, as some people are already concerned that prog is either incorrectly categorised in the first place and I have seen other comments in posts where some people consider subgenres as counterproductive to the traditional idea of what prog is (or was). Opens the door to a much wider spectrum of musical influences.
I think it is also necessary to discriminate harder oriented or "pompous" bands from mainstream art-rock acts...
Some examples of what you think this would look like would be helpful I think.
I am insistent on my idea to get Deep Purple and Jon Lord here, not just because "constantly trying to get my favorite semi-progressive band accepted as actual prog", as Golden Spiral suggests, and I don't have "a certain fear of liking non-prog bands, so want to make sure all my favorites are prog", either.
As a medical condition would this be termed, antiprogaphobia.
|
Thanks for the feedback Bilek
------------- Eternity
|
|