Prog's Most Controversial Lyricist
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Topic: Prog's Most Controversial Lyricist
Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Prog's Most Controversial Lyricist
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:22
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I can see Jon Anderson and James Labrie (maybe Cedric Zavala) turning up a lot here, but my pick has to be Neil Peart. I can't think of anyone (except maybe Bernie Taupin) as likely to turn up on a list of Best Lyricists AND a list of Worst Lyricists. You'll find a lot of people going "Peart is an exceptional lyricist, using songs to express sophisticated philosophical concepts, commenting on a wide variety of aspects of the human condition, able to ground his lyrics in allegorical high fantasy or reality, or to even strip them of all concept and present them as logic." And people going "Peart is a terrible bore, using songs to badly paraphrase various books he has read, clumsy turns of phrase wading in bathos as he reaches for great profundity but instead is either just talking common sense or being incredibly condescending. He spends so much time being self-consciously intelligent, he forgets to make things listenable."
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Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:27
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Steven Wilson. ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:29
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Greg Lake ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:30
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Horizons: Really? I don't think I've ever seen people argue over his lyrics, not passionately at least.
SD: Good pick except I think there is a bit of a consensus that he's a bit naff. "How could he lose six million jews etc" must just be about the most derided prog lyric ever.
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:36
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I generally like Pearts lyrics, although I can see why some people find them pompous, or too clever for their own good. I once posted the lyrics to 'The Spirit of Radio' on another music forum, and the reaction was a mix of hilarity, and 'Don't those guys ever have fun?'
I'm not a big fan of early Marillion lyrics, to be honest. The sentiments expressed are fine, but every now and then Fish uses a ridiculous line: "The season of the button" for example, or just generally seems to be trying to hard to sound poetic, when relative simplicity could have brought more to the music. Of course, it's all subjective. Between 1976 - 1980, Genesis lyrics were, by and large no picnic either, imo, but then it depends what you want from lyrics. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:38
I rather like most of Lake's lyrics. But I've seen a lot of hate so I get your point. I'll try again. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Textbook wrote:Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:41
| Blacksword: Peart's lyrics do look terrible written down, but I don't count that because he's not a poet, he's a lyricist. He's allowed to hide behind Lee's vocal delivery in the context of them being *songs*. Some things sound fine when sung but silly when read and vice versa. There are lyricists who manage lyrics so good you can read them but anyone who thinks that's a minimum standard is being unreasonable. |
Posted By: ScorchedFirth
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 06:57
can i mention: I've also never been a fan at all (lyrically) of the nonsense that comes out of jon anderson, but at least it sounds pretty (most of the time). ------------- breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking, spewing, sleeping... 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:00
| Jon Anderson. Agree with Peart as well. Waters is pretty polarizing too. |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:02
| Doesn't everyone worship Waters as a lyricist? |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:05
| Not really, because he is a master of concept rather than firm. He can tend to express himself quite plainly (which I like). |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:07
| I thought the controversy with Waters was over him alledgedly being a dickhead, not the quality of his lyrics. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:14
Well, I guess we were all young once. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:16
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That is really terrible. Still, doesn't change the fact that people don't seem to argue about his lyrics, though perhaps they should.
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Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:20
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I generally rather like Peart's lyrics, but don't particularly agree with his occasional right wing, libertarian messages.
Jon Anderson and Peter Nicholls both write amazing lyrics to fit the context of the song, but they are usually absolute nonsense out of it. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:38
Those are some good points, but I think the problem isn't so much that he's being "self-consciously intelligent", but rather that his lyrics try to be intelligent but really aren't. The best explanation I've seen of what's wrong with Peart's lyrics is by John McFerrin:
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:50
Yeah, that line in 'The only way' (is that what it's called?) is awful. I could feel my toes curl the first time I heard it. Lakes vocal is really bad on that song too, which doesn't help. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 07:54
Yes, I know what you mean, but I always thought the lyrics to Spirit of Radio were good, both sung and read. The section about 'glittering prizes and endless compromises' passes as both lyrics, and arguably poetry..of a sort..  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: kevin4peace
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 09:22
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I can't believe no one has mentioned Sinfield yet. Some of the early Crimson lyrics are ridiculous: Go Polonius or kneel The reapers name their harvest dawn All your tarnished devil's spoons Will rust beneath our corn. There are some classic songs and King Crimson is one of my favourite bands, but theres no denying that Sinfield could go a bit over board sometimes. ------------- Nothing to say here. Nothing at all. Nothing is easy. |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 09:50
Haha yes, "stake a lizard by the throat" and such. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 09:50
I disagree on both counts. I love the line and his vocals a superb. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:06
| I would pick Ian Anderson, especially in the early years, with his views on religion and British society. in the later years he change a little, not his way of thinking, but the way he expresses his opinions. |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:12
I see how you could say this about Peart's early lyrics, but I can't understand how this would describe the majority of his work from the 80's and on. I can name a few songs that I feel this way about (Freewill and Bravest Face to name a couple) but I think that, by and large, most of his post-70's lyrics are quite insightful, such as Limelight, Distant Early Warning, Open Secrets, Cold Fire, War Paint, Scars (especially Scars), Halo Effect, How it Is... ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: CordofLifeA11
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:23
| Peter Hammill. I understand from a philosophical perspective, that a lyricist can only write 'poetry' from his own experience, but I swear this is all that Peter does! He talks all the time, and never about in anything in particular. In this respect, I have to say he's so unrelatable in what he says, other than by intangible emotions, and such. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:28
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Pretty obvious Peart would be one of the most discussed subjects of this thread (Anderson too, to an extent), but I do find some of Peart's lyrics can work outside a musical context - not sure I'd call them poetry as such, but...
A few examples (for me at least): The Camera Eye Spirit Of Radio A Farewell To Kings La Villa Strangiato Subdivisions Just a few out of a 38 year canon, but these are the first ones which briefly spring to mind -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:35
And what lyrics did he write for that?  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:45
I loathe Wilson's lyrics. I like him as a musician and vocalist, but his lyrics are so overly-dramatic and literal. It works sometimes ("Time Flies", "Trains", "Prodigal"). But for the most part, it's awful: This is a hate song just meant for you I thought that I'd write it down while I still could I hope when you hear this you'll want to sue - "Hatesong" I'm the one you always seem to read about The fire inside my eyes has long gone out There's nothing left for me to say or do 'Cause all that matters disappeared when I lost you... - "Postcard" For the most part, though, bad lyrics don't bother me very much. For me, lyrics can only add to music, not detract from it. Unless the music is lyrically-driven, which almost no prog is. -------------  |
Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:57
Actually, I absolutely agree with you. My problems are almost exclusively with his 70s output. His lyrics from the 80s onward don't always make for the greatest poetry, but for the most part he stopped writing about topics that make him look like a fool. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 11:59
+1 on Sinfield. Some sexist implications and open statements bug me on some really good tracks: "All you know of the girls of the road, Oh, like apples we stole in our youth." "I smiled and just unzipped her".  ...
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 12:12
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^All good to me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 12:24
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Difficult one, really. Jon Anderson's lyrics were never meant to be taken literally. They were poetic pieces which quite often were written to fit the music, as Squire has mentioned more than once. I always liked Ian Anderson's lyrics, because of his sharp wit and sense of self parody. I liked Peart's lyrics in the 1970's, but I can understand why people might think of them being a little bit "of their time" all these years later. My nomination would be a prog related one. Ian Gillan. Whilst I love Deep Purple, and have done since about 1974/75, some of those lyrics really do sound ridiculous these days. As examples Strange Kind of Women, My Woman From Tokyo, & etc. Fine songs, but misogynistic in the extreme. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 13:32
But we think that Peart is great because he quotes her! Woooppppeeeeedooooooo! Lots of folks have even quoted Chairman Mao! How about Hitler? ... But if we're serious about lyrics, probably the best, and the one that so many people can not relate to ... and sometimes hate, is probably the best poet and rock lyricist of all time ... Jim Morrison! ... love him or hate him, but to this day ... you will never know about ... whip the horse's eye ... or you can not petition the Lord with prayer ... or when the music is over ... if you don't know what poetry is all about and how it hits you ... you will always think that words are important ... and in the end, it's not the words themselves ... it's the depth of the feeling behind it that curldles your blood and wits to smithreens! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AlexDOM
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 14:15
| Daniel Gildenlow |
Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 16:10
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Another way to approach the problem with Neil Peart's lyrics is to think about one of the basic "rules" that pop up in creative writing classes: show don't tell (or, as Henry James put it, "Dramatize! Dramatize!"). I don't think the issue is with the content of the lyrics, but with how he expresses the ideas. Rather than create a dramatic situation in which ideas are brought to life, in the clunkiest moments the lines are presented all too literally, reading like cod philosophy notes. ("Free Will" is the ultimate example of this; I have a friend who is a professor of philosophy who just cringes and cringes at the thought of those lyrics.) But he has been far less guilty of this kind of thing on the two most recent albums. At the end of the day, I know though that hearing Neil's words the first time when I was in high school was revelatory. If most of what you had heard before were the words found in radio ballads or AC/DC, then these lyrics were really something special. Still, it is still pretty hard to forgive "Trees" (even if I do still sing along). ------------- The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 17:16
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Another one is Frank Zappa. Some people love his lyrics, others think they're what stopped him from being more successful than he was. Surprised to see Ian Anderson coming up here, I thought he was quite respected as a lyricist. Peart does write about smart things in a dumb way but in a way I think that's what makes him stand out. Because it's "dumb" (or rather, straightfoward) it's pretty easy to get his message and be exposed to the concept he has in mind. If he started masking his intent behind purple prose and extended metaphors or removed it three times from the literal like Cedric Zavala does, it might be very interesting and mysterious, but we would no longer be able to be sure what he was talking about. Straightforward isn't always bad in lyrics. I think some of the appeal of songs like Free Will and Witch Hunt is that Peart just comes right up and says it without airy-fairy window dressing. (And also, look at what happens when Peart tries an extended metaphor- Trees anyone?)
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 17:24
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man I love The Trees. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: questionsneverknown
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 17:35
I agree--being straightforward isn't a bad thing in lyrics--and there are countless examples of songs ruined by overwrought attempts at something vaguely approximating poetry. Still, there are ways that a lyricist can go beyond the literal without being "airy fairy." McCartney's "Eleanor Rigby" is a good example, to me. We understand very clearly that the song is about loneliness, but the song is strong because we have situations and characters that bring that abstract concept to life--the waiting by the window and the darning of socks in the night. The problem with something like "Free Will" (and I actually do like the song) is that the words really do feel like they have been pulled from an intro to philosophy manual. Just abstract thoughts without a concrete situation. To put it bluntly, though: lyrics are f**king hard to do well. Good poetry that reads well on its own can sound godawful when sung, and great lyrics that work perfectly in a song--blended with instruments--can read like childish scribblings on their own. ------------- The damage that we do is just so powerfully strong we call it love The damage that we do just goes on and on and on but not long enough. --Robyn Hitchcock |
Posted By: CordofLifeA11
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 19:00
| In my opinion, that is exactly what makes Jon Anderson such a fantastic lyricist (oh, and that voice). His ideas are somewhat window-dressed in abstract language but it paints such colourful pictures, doesn't it? He's not always talking about nothing in particular, i.e. "A seasoned witch could call you from the depths of your disgrace and re-arrange your liver to the solid mental place" I find it all very thought-evoking and brilliant. |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 21:14
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I love the lyrics of Ian Anderson, Neil Peart, Pete Sinfeld, Peter Hammill, and Roger Waters. Who's to say what are good lyrics and which are bad?
I guess, for me, its about which one's reach me and which one's don't. The artists above reach me, but Jon Anderson's voice and lyrics do nothing for me, so I suppose that, for me personally, Jon Anderson writes bad lyrics. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: June 18 2012 at 21:35
What are you talking about?! I love those lines!! I guess its the Zappa freak in me. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 01:03
^ Maybe. I'm just not that into misogynism.
That's like saying "Who's to think what lyrics are good and what lyrics are bad?"
The OP question wasn't about bad lyrics. It was about controversial lyrics, which are not always the same thing.
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 01:16
What's his problem? Can you pitch us an example?
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 06:14
Nice to know someone actually reads my posts  -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 10:07
I agree with you Snow Dog, but it's safe to say that that line IS controversial, don't you think? Just by it's very nature, it's going to stir some people up. I always love the song though, and the lyrics.......I wrote them on the inside cover of one of my copies of the bible when I was 20 years old (I was studying religion at college). I feel kind of silly about it now, and the lyrics seem a bit juvenile to me now as well, but I still think it's a great song and the lyrics work perfectly. I think most prog lyrics have been controversial over the years, at least with critics. What I find interesting is how even prog fans will make the old joke about prog songs being about faeries and Tolken and such, yet I'd be hard pressed to name a song that is about either (well, okay, Lothlorien and Nimrodel come to mind, but I think fantasy references are actually not used that much in prog at all). |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 10:11
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^It's definitely controversial. Which is why I suggested Lake. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 10:29
There's nothing wrong with either the literal approach or the dramatic approach; it's all in how you execute the ideas. I think that Peart is quite good at both, though not perfect, by any means. The more explicitly philosophical lyrics, in Peart's case, work even better because the music and Geddy's voice brings them into a dramatic light that wouldn't have been expressed if the lyrics were just read. I think that "The Trees" is quite effective; it's a simple analogy, almost like a parable, and the fact that it doesn't take into account all the complexities of socio-economic theory doesn't diminish it's effectiveness. There's a place for that type of "parablic" poetry. I've never considered Freewill a badly written lyric; I think it's written quite well, it's just that the ideas expressed make no sense whatsoever. "I will choose free will..." wherever did Neil get the idea that he could choose whether he had free will or not? That's a bit counter-intuitive, I think. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 11:25
| No one has mentioned Peter Gabriel yet. At least, several choice songs he wrote while with Genesis. Case-in-point would be 'Musical Box' from "Nursery Cryme." Couched in the language of well-known fairy tales and nursery rhymes is the story of a hormonal young lad with a fixation on the young girl. All the more controversial is when the spirit of the dead lad appears to the girl in the form of an older man, spying on her and wanting to ravage her sexually. A stereotypical scenario, perhaps, but one that raises eyebrows nonetheless... |
Posted By: Cthulhu42
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 11:35
I'm pretty sure "The Trees" was literally supposed to be about trees; no deeper meaning behind it. |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 11:42
I realize that, but I read through the other posts and the answers tht I was going to give were already given, but what was starting was a good lyrics / bad lyrics conversation and I had something to add to that. So I suppose all of Prog's lyricists are controversial, because we're arguing over who writes good lyrics and who writes bad and accusing lyrics that were written by Pete Sinfeld, 40 years ago of misogynism, when in fact, they were meant to be funny, but also describing how life was on the road with groupies. I see no problem in that. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 11:49
^ Well, ... that is a good clarification for me ... unless you were looking for an excuse on Pete's behalf .
Any other examples of Peter gone bad? |
Posted By: Wanorak
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 14:24
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Fish on Fugazi; some very controversial lyrics on that song and on She Chameleon. ------------- A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!! |
Posted By: CordofLifeA11
Date Posted: June 19 2012 at 15:05
| I'll re-nominate Peter Hammill. From "Lizard Play" (a song about how guys just want poontang [read not talking]), "And the toungues they flick out- though they want to touch, words get all in the way". It's a pretty funny little ditty, though, I must insist. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 12:48
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Peter sinfield is one hell of a number , let me tell you , at times as oblique as a Rubik's cube !
Try this enigma from his solo album=
"The sea goat casts Aquarian runes through beads of
mirrored tears, Suave pirates words of apricot crawl out of your veneer Anoint your eyes with Midas' oil and make it still appear" Say whaaaaat?  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 13:51
| ^ That makes him controversial? |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 14:04
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Yup, some hate him , others cannot begin to like him and many (like moi) find it compelling at the very least. I heard one luminary scribe (LOL) calling his lyrics "verbal diarrhea"! He is controversial but not for me.
"Gargoyles chewing on wet cigars", love your inspiration, Pete ! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Marksista
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 14:29
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Roger Waters Peter Gabriel Fish And,..not prog,..JELLO BIAFRA |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 22 2012 at 15:16
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I'm tempted to mention Roger Wootton of Comus. Some people love all of the lyrics on First Utterance, some tolerate them, some are disgusted by some of them/ loathe them. I love First Utterance, but "Drip, Drip" makes even me queasy. My favourite lyrics are on "The Bite", but I could understand it making some religious-types a little squeamish. It remind me of the Wicker Man.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 25 2012 at 13:11
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I don't think any prog lyrics are controversial in a "public outrage" kind of way because of the genre's inherent lack of public attention. Within prog communities like this one, such things as whether or not Miles Davis ought to be on the Top 100 are "controversial"....... I suppose some love Jon Anderson's words and some hate them. But nobody argues either view with any more passion than "...it's just what I like..." Art can be polarising in terms of taste, but to be controversial, I think you'd have to do something massively taboo....... and what is taboo these days? ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Megaman90
Date Posted: June 25 2012 at 13:18
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Frank Zappa /thread |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: June 25 2012 at 15:14
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Zappa lyrics = controversy ------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: July 04 2012 at 00:20
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Yep, Zappa lyrics are controversial. Brilliant lyrics.
Some of the posts have been talking about controversy pertaining to whether they are any good or not, and others about controversy pertaining to content. I'm discussing the latter. The Musical Box has somewhat controversial content, but it's a ghost story. The Lamia? That gets a little dicey - Oh Lamia, your flesh I will take as my food. It is the scent of garlic that lingers on my chocolate fingers - but it's maybe not beyond the bounds of what we might anticipate from a vampire story. The Colony of Slippermen? Madonna move over. Peter Gabriel trumped you. |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 04 2012 at 00:56
Speaking of "The Lamia": I read Bob Christgau's review on "The Lamb" (which he gave B-, which is weird since I expected a lower rating from him for such an album), and he wrote that Peter was covering a few things for his lyrics like Greek mythology, sexual revolution, etc. I think sexual revolution is very much related to "The Lamia".
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Posted By: Anthony
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 14:28
And that's exactly what makes Waters' lyrics controversial. A 'dickhead' like him criticising poiticians while treating his fellow bandmembers like dirt is mere hypocrisy. ------------- Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love (Introitus - The hand that feeds you) |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 17:26
| ^ I don't know if that's true that Roger treated his fellow musicians like that. There may have been some brawling, but that ... . Sounds like an exaggeration to me. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 17:48
Anthony doesn't like Waters because he has sad lyrics.  ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: The_Jester
Date Posted: July 05 2012 at 20:27
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Peter Gabriel is a lyrical genius I think. A bagfull of double-sensed sentences wich are very controversial if we understand their meaning. It remains very poetic in albums like the Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.
------------- La victoire est éphémère mais la gloire est éternelle! - Napoléon Bonaparte |
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 13:05
Well, he actually behaved like a true Narcissist. Everybody was to blame but himself. On that tangent, you can say that his lyrics about empathy and social conciousness are just nice words. He just doesn't care about the people who surrounds him. A true hypocrite if you like. Don't think that makes his lyrics controversial though. Neither does the fact that he recently bought an island in the Carribean, for development into luxory holiday homes. I guess, if you earn a lot of money, you have to invest them in some ways, a Lear Jet or a football team (sic), (or fancy flats in London ( he's made his money work there as well). |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 13:10
| ^ Didn't know any of that. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: July 06 2012 at 15:00
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Dave Cousins of The Strawbs was always a favorite of mine for lyrics like this: |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: July 10 2012 at 06:03
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Uncle Frank is the first one that springs to mind, check out "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: July 19 2012 at 17:18
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Before Jon Anderson discovered the the Earth Mother and love is all around us his lyrics were thought evoking,stimulating and full of wonderment.Hammill in his glory days again was a lyricist I loved,but Fish for me is the best and consistently so,' Vodka intimate an affair with isolation ' what an opening line from a lyrical masterpiece. Insane insomniac plagued by prescient dreams. |
Posted By: Benniczek
Date Posted: July 20 2012 at 07:16
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Daniel Gildenlöw Roger Waters Fish These three, in my opinion, can write the sadest (or in Gildenlöw's case even depressing) yet very inteligent lyrics Other good lyricists are: Ian Anderson (Aqualung and Thick As A Brick have both quite controversial and critical lyrics, often in a funny, not too serious way, I also like his more natur-related lyrics on Songs From The Wood or Heavy Horses) Peter Gabriel Cedric Bixler-Zavala Greg Lake also wrote some good lines, for example in Court Of The Crimson King or Tarkus |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: July 20 2012 at 12:55
Anthony are you still in love with the gorgeous Heather? Havent been on the Dutch Prog for years and am seldom on here but good to see your'e still flaunting yourself with your picture. |
Posted By: Earthmover
Date Posted: July 21 2012 at 16:43
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And if Warhol's a genius, what am I, a speck of lint on the penis of an alien buried in gelatin beneath the sands of Venus Belew -------------  |
Posted By: BassoonAng
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 01:52
I was starting to wonder if I'd have to throw Hammill into the ring myself. I entirely get what you mean and if you really pay attention, the lyrics rarely match the emotion of the music he sets. Just sit back and listen to Killer (especially in live versions). Jackson is squealing out something fierce on alto when Hammill's talking about living alone and craving companionship. It's just an unnatural choice. |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 06:31
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Four pages and not one person has Mentioned.....
Neil Morse.............another example of how main-stream religion has made everybody (including all those who've contributed to this thread)....imune to to the total bullsh*t that is fed to children every-day.....(and gullible adults of course)......
When everybody laughs (until the hoots of derision can be heard in every corner of the globe!) at the pathetic thought-control books of the monotheistic religions, THAT is the day that mankind has truly arrived at the gates of true enlightenment......  ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: Zombywoof
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 10:47
Part of the charm. And Man-Erg remedies this issue perfectly. ------------- Continue the prog discussion here: http://zombyprog.proboards.com/index.cgi ... |
Posted By: BassoonAng
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 11:04
It definitely is. |
Posted By: AlexDOM
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 19:16
...or the Gates of Delirium
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Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: July 23 2012 at 22:42
There are Neal Morse lyrics that are legitimately controversial; there was a discussion about Sola Scriptura not long ago, and I heard the opinion expressed that the album was offensive because it attacked the Catholic church. While I have nothing in particular against the album (although I don't agree with all of the theology and don't particularly like Neal's portrayal of Luther) I can see where it might offend Catholic Christians. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: July 24 2012 at 06:14
 but thats what happens if you base your life on the ramblings of some bronze age misogynistic old farts.....I still find society's attitude to sex and violence quite unbelievable. How can a (graphic portrayal) of a penis penetrating a vagina cause such horror when a knife being inserted into a womans throat is far more acceptible........------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: giselle
Date Posted: August 03 2012 at 16:29
| Jon Anderson for me, astonishingly naive or downright pretentious, I can't decide which. |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: August 03 2012 at 17:44
For me, it's simple: if I watch a graphic portrayal of sexual intercourse, I know I will be tempted to sin with impure thoughts. If I watch a violent scene, I'm not prone to sin by having violent thoughts because of that, or to act on violent impulses. That may be different for others; I can only witness to my own experience. That's why I have no problem with violence in movies, whereas I shy away from watching movies with sex scenes. There's also the point to consider that, whereas violence is an integral part of man's (and God's, from a Christian perspective) struggle against evil, and has a vital part in a story of good vs. evil, which, in a way, every good movie is. Sex, however, was meant to be private, from a Christian point of view; whereas a war scene in a movie is a portrayal of something public, in a sense, in that it's a battle of good vs. evil which all humanity is ultimately a participant in, a sex scene makes a spectacle of the most intimate act that two human beings can participate in, meant, from a Christian perspective, for a married man and woman. Also, you have to take into account the context and worldview of the portrayal of sex and violence; almost all movie sex scenes, from the Christian perspective, are depictions of sin (I'm under the impression that most sex scenes are between unmarried couples) but are usually not portrayed as such by the movie makers. On the other hand, much of the violence portrayed in movies is justified (in self-defense, in a just war, in defense of others...) and unjust violence is often portrayed as evil, as it ought to be. Obviously, this isn't always the case; in the movie Marley and Me, for example, there are scenes of intimacy and sex but they are between a married couple. I saw that movie and had no problem with it (it was very boring though, I'd never want to watch it again). You still have to consider, though, that to film a sex scene, you still have to foster intimacy between two people who (most likely) aren't married. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: August 05 2012 at 09:01
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Graphic sex, I believe, can lead many people to a type of infantilism, a type of wish fulfillment by pornography. I believe older generations were much more sophisticated than what we may think. If sex is kept sacred, then more bonding can occur and people begin to understand what they can get out of a romantic relationship, by also giving to it. One has someone to spend one's time with, one doesn't compare that person to a porn star or even any kind of "model." One become humane. Pornography abstracts this quality and tries to commodify it. Check out the Singles Anonymous website for some modern thought on remedying this problem. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: DiamondDog
Date Posted: August 09 2012 at 06:40
| I'm with the majority; Jon Anderson & Neil Peart |
Posted By: bensommer
Date Posted: August 09 2012 at 18:54
Nail=Hit on Head. I often get straight up Douche Chills listening to Taupin's lyrics (most of them), and Peart's too (just some of them). One thing in common between both? Neither writes the music. Its inevitable when a composer (Elton John, Lifeson/Lee) is setting someone else's words exclusively that there will be some odd pairings once in a while
------------- http://bensommermusic.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: August 11 2012 at 22:25
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Well, Frank Zappa wrote controversial songs like "Magdalena" and "Brown Shoes Don't Make It".
Seriously, what was he thinking?
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Posted By: resurrection
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 01:43
| Jon Anderson gets my vote - love or loathe his lyrics? |
Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 07:06
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Who here agrees that "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" and "Magdelena", although Comedy songs, Crossed the line? |
Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 08:49
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Without reading five pages of nominees, it's gotta be
ZAPPA. |
Posted By: mongofa
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 12:21
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A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me? ------------- 
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Posted By: HarbouringTheSoul
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 13:03
I've never heard a negative opinion about Beefheart's lyrics. How is he controversial? |
Posted By: Slaughternalia
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 13:20
So XD randum lulomg ------------- I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't |
Posted By: theadolescentprogger
Date Posted: August 12 2012 at 14:48
| Frank Zappa. |
Posted By: mongofa
Date Posted: August 13 2012 at 02:50
 -------------
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Posted By: Jonathan
Date Posted: August 13 2012 at 22:04
| Just a question, is anyone else on this site offended by "Magdalena" and/or "Brown Shoes Don't Make It"? |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: August 13 2012 at 22:28
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I think at least one of those was brought up before, which may be why your posts aren't generating as much discussion as you're looking for. Still, one post is enough, no need to tell us about those songs again. ------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 13 2012 at 22:47
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This is a confusing thread. We have posters talking about actual controversial lyricists (in that what they are saying may be beyond the pale or shocking), and also just plain bad lyricists who are only controversial in a roundabout way because some people think they are good. The two concepts are not necessarily congruent. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: August 13 2012 at 23:52
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What about Damo Suzuki from Can? ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: August 14 2012 at 06:53
Only with the onset of recent cultural evolution has sex - been private,
in the past, tribal groups would have witnessed much more "Live" sex than the
average urbanite today (excluding swingers obviously).
Children would have watched adults engaged in sex...as still happens in
some societies even today.
Homo sapiens (today) is the only species that doesn't copulate in open view (Legally).
Thats due to cultural pressure.
But modern society's acceptance of graphic violence is far more troubling for a rational person.
Society's non-acceptance of graphic sex is almost wholly based on silly religious dogma.
Thats my point. ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |