Adding Tom Rapp solo to Pearls Before Swine
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Topic: Adding Tom Rapp solo to Pearls Before Swine
Posted By: friso
Subject: Adding Tom Rapp solo to Pearls Before Swine
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 08:35
|
I would like to suggest a change on the page of psych-folk and prog-related group Pearls Before Swine.
Among fans it has been known that the bandname 'Pearls Before Swine' was kept after the first three album just because of it being known by the public. Singer, song-writer and arranger Tom Rapp has however been the only standing member throughout the rest of the bands career. This resulted in the last two 'Pearls Before Swine' albums having both the old bandname and the name of Tom Rapp on them. After this period Tom Rapp continued and made three albums under his own name, dropping the PBS name altogether. I think it would be consistent with the historical information to change the band's name on PA to 'Pearls Before Swine (Tom Rapp)' and add the three 'solo' albums of Rapp on the page. The self-titled 'Tom Rapp' (or: Familiar Songs) album even has newly arranged version of classic Pearls Before Swine songs. To be conclusive, I suggest that: - We change the bands title on PA to 'Pears Before Swine (Tom Rapp)' - Add the three albums released under Tom Rapps own name. The three remaining Rapp Albums are: - Familiar Songs (1972) - Stardancer (1972) - Sunforest (1973) Of course, I'm willing to add them myself if permission is granted. Many thanks! |
Replies:
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 10:06
Not really sure where you'd post this...I don't think Suggest New bands and Artists is quite the right forum for it though. Maybe this one... http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=82726" rel="nofollow - New Report Thread Please Post Errors Here ? Maybe it needs discussing in http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=44" rel="nofollow - Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation forum first? Doubtless it'll be moved to the right place by someone who knows where... 
|
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 11:31
I've been thinking about this myself. We'll see what happens. |
yam yam wrote:Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 17:19
|
I don't have a problem with the proposal. I'll see what the other Prog Folk members have to say.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 17:56
| I guess if Pearls before Swine is the better known name, then this makes sense. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2012 at 18:34
|
Normally I would not be in favour of such changes and the 4th Rapp album, "A Journal of the Plague Year" (1999), does not help here because of the long time-gap it cannot be seen as continuation of the PBS time-line - it is a bona fide Rapp solo album.
I think for peace of mind and a little PA integrity the 4 Rapp solo albums should be evaluated for inclusion seperate from PBS - if they are found worthy of Prog Folk then the two (PBS and Rapp solo) can be merged, but if they are not Prog Folk then Prog Related is the only possible option for Rapp solo. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 13 2012 at 04:16
|
Well, when PBS was added, I also investigated Tom Rapp's solo albums...
Personally I did find them Rapp solo albums to be fairly different from the Folk/Prog Folk of the four PBS albums... There is distinct country edge to Tom Rapp's solo, which isn't present on the PBS ones... I also found the arrangements less "prog" as well.
Like Dean, I'd kind of prefer not adding the Rapp albums to PBS (despite the personal continuity of Tom), but if anyone wants to see his solo work included as prog-related, it's fine by me
My two penny's worth as an ex-PF leader (since Clem is now and doing a hell of a job)
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 13 2012 at 20:33
|
Thanks Hugues, appreciate the comments and your opinion. Dean, I was also originally inclined to evaluate Rapp's solo work separately from the PBS albums, but I had some trouble reconciling that with precedence for similar situations in the Archives. Really Pearls Before Swine ceased to exist as a de facto group by the time their second album was released, and really except for the first album all the records issued as PBS alums were pretty much Tom Rapp augmented by studio musicians. And since the original band never even toured together it could be argued PBS was never actually a band, at least not after 1967, so Friso's suggestion of listing the records as "Pearls Before Swine/Tom Rapp" has some merit, especially since three of the studio albums were released under the name Tom Rapp/Pearls Before Swine ('City of Gold', 1971; 'Beautiful Lies You Could Live In', 1971; and 'Sunforest', 1973) even though the latter two didn't include any original band members except Rapp. And three of the four Pearls Before Swine compilation albums include songs from records issued as PBS, PBS/Rapp and just as Rapp, as well as 'Live Pearls' which was recorded in 1971 and released as a PBS album in 2008 even though none of the original Pearls played on it except Rapp. None of the PBS/Rapp or Rapp records are actually solo albums anyway since all of them feature numerous studio musicians, so it seems to me the PBS and Rapp discographies are pretty much inexorably intertwined. As for 'A Journal of the Plague Year' it's true this was released after a 20+ year hiatus, but we have precedent for that on the Archives as well. Carol of Harvest released albums more than 30 years apart with the latter one having only Axel Schmierer from the original band and it's a Carol of Harvest album in name only. Bark Psychosis had two albums 20 years apart and the second was mostly a Graham Sutton solo effort with a bunch of studio musicians and friends. It's a Beautiful Day had a 30 year break before their last album (which included half the original band but was actually issued under the name 'David LaFlamme Band' for legal reasons). And Babe Ruth released their final album 30 years after the prior one with most of the original band but a sound that is neither Ruth-like or even remotely progressive. So if we assume "Pearls Before Swine" == "Tom Rapp" then we should consider the entirety of the discography regardless of the name(s) that appear on the covers. And once we agree to that then we certainly can't split the last album simply because it isn't progressive and/or because it doesn't include most of the original members. If we did that we'd have to revisit the latter albums of a whole lot of bands including Genesis, Yes, APP, ELO, Renaissance, etc. etc. This is an interesting case for sure... ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 03:28
| All thoughts are much appriciated here! Personally, I think one page for all Rapp/PBS music would also be easier to handle. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 03:39
Go for what you think is right, Bob, you're the head honcho, now Don't forget to update the bio, if you include Rapp stuff But don't anyone start including NWA, Eminem or Dr Dre stuff, just because Rapp's stuff is included, uh!!    ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 03:42
| As a token of appreciation I will write a new bio for PBS/Rapp. I'll start as soon as we have a definitive decision. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 14 2012 at 04:13
|
Precedent and consistency aren't PA traits, with the high number of collaborators on teams over the years doing things their own way there will never be consistency and every possible action has a precedent somewhere in the system, for example if Allan Shacklock had released the last Babe Ruth as Shacklock (which was also the name of his band before Babe Ruth) it would not have been listed in the discography, T.Rex are excluded from the Tyrannosaurus Rex discography because T.Rex is not progressive, David Gilmour is in Prog Related even though the last two Floyd albums were essentially Gilmour solo albums, the first Gilmour solo was basically a Joker's Wild album and his last two solo live albums have been Floyd's greatest hits, the Parlour Band is listed but A Band Called O and the "O" Band are not... etc etc
However, whatever you are comfortable with is okay with me. ------------- What? |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 21 2012 at 04:20
| When are we going to have decision? |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: January 21 2012 at 08:00
|
Sorry, I missed Dean's last comment. I wanted this conversation to run its course and I think it has. Dean, I appreciate your feedback and counterpoints, and I agree the Babe Ruth example was a stretch. But I am quite familiar with the history of both PBS and Tom Rapp, as is Sean Trane (and probably Ken as well), and I do feel comfortable in this case with merging them into one as they were both essentially the same entity after around 1967. Friso, if you are volunteering to update the bio then I'll say that we appreciate your offer and you can go ahead. Sean Trane, thanks for the comments. I promise to be the guardian of our virtues and ensure none of Tom Rapp's less deserving cousins like Tupac or Eminem find their way in here... ------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 22 2012 at 05:18
Oké, thanks. I'll start writing as soon as possible. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 23 2012 at 10:45
|
So, what do you think?
PEARLS BEFORE SWINE (Melbourne, Florida, USA) is the band formed by folk singer, guitar-player and songwriter Tom RAPP and some of his high school friends. Though RAPP would remain the only standing member of the band over the years, this first line-up can be attributed with the first two albums, “One Nation Underground” (1967) and “Balaklava” (1968), on which PEARLS BEFORE SWINE can be described as a psychedelic and progressive folk group. Both albums were released by ESP. After this Tom RAPP would continue to record milder folk records under the PEARLS BEFORE SWINE flag with a diversity of studio musicians until dropping the bandname in 1973. He then delivered another three albums under his own name (these are also included on this page) before becoming a civil rights lawyer. In 1999 Tom RAPP would return with another solo album. Rapp would eventually become a cult-idol because of his mystical and political songwriting and his emotionally driven, folky and almost whimsical (in a good way) vocal performances. I The first line-up of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE consisted of Tom RAPP, Wayne HARLEY, Lane LEDERER and Roger CRISSINGER. Together they would record the classic “One Nation Underground” (1967), a psychedelic folk album with some heavy edges, psychedelic moods, political lyrics and mystical folk songs. The album sold a reasonable 250.000 copies, but due to lack of proper management the band would not profit very much from this. In 1968 the band would re-emerge with again RAPP, CRISSINGER and LEDERER, this time joined by Jim BOHANNON and some guest musicians in the studio. “Balaklava” (1968) would be their most progressive effort with a continuation in style, but with a more daring approach with psychedelic sound-effects, symphonic arrangements and a dark ending song based on the ‘The Lord of the Rings’. II On the third album “These Things Too” (1969) the band’s line up changed significantly. RAPP would be joined by his wife (of Dutch origin) Elisabeth, Wayne HARLEY, Jim FAIRS as well as some studio musicians. This album would be their first album on the Reprise label, but unfortunately the recording quality was rather poor. Mainly for this reason this album is perceived as the lesser PEARLS BEFORE SWINE ALBUM. III After this, yet another line-up of the band was disbanded, and RAPP and his wife went to the famous musical city of Nashville to record “The Use of Ashes” in 1970 with a long list of studio musicians. The sound changed to that of a well-produced folk sound with pop-arrangements reminding us a bit of Bob DYLAN, but with a symphonic edge to it. “The Use of Ashes” is perceived as one of the best albums of Tom RAPP because of its splendid sound, delicate style and songwriting. Leftovers from these recording sessions were release in 1971 as “City of Gold” a.ka. “Nashville album”. This album has a wider range of styles, including country, folk and the return of psychedelic influences on the last tracks of the album. Elisabeth RAPP would contribute a lot on these two albums. IV The last album recorded under the PEARLS BEFORE SWINE flag is the 1972 “…Beautiful Lies You could live in” with RAPP and his wife as standing members. The song-writing on this album is particularly strong, sentimental and intimate, though the reverb-folk sound was replaced by a more dry, down to the earth folk recording. V In 1972 Tom RAPP’s first solo album was released “Familiar Songs”. It was a collection of demos and re-recordings of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE songs that was released without RAPP’s knowledge. The album doesn’t have a sound that is significantly different from the album before it, but is mainly interesting because of a couple of new songs and new arrangements for older songs of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE. In the same year RAPP signed with Blue Thumb, a record label that would fully acknowledge his status as solo-artist, though RAPP would remain his touring group PEARLS BEFORE SWINE with Art ELLIS and Bill ROLLINS. RAPP would gain full control over the recording of “Stardancer” (1972), which is seen as one of his finest records by both critics and himself. On this album Rapp would fall back on psychedelic leanings of the first two PEARLS BEFORE SWINE albums, making it an interesting album for listeners of psych-folk. In 1973 Tom RAPP would record the “Sunforest” album, on which PEARLS BEFORE SWINE was also mentioned on the cover artwork. On this album, which is generally seen as a weaker album, there are pop, folk and up-tempo tracks. In the mid-seventies Rapp would eventually leave the music industry to become a successful civil rights lawyer. VI In 1997 Tom RAPP was contacted by the Ptolemaic Terrascope magazine, which would lead to him reappearing at Terrastock festival with his sons band ‘Shy Camp’. This would in turn inspire him to the writing and recording of “A Journal of the Plague Year” (1999) which had both new songs and previously unrecorded tracks. The album has a surprisingly recognizable sound for listeners of RAPP’s music of the seventies because of its intimate, delicate folk style. The song ‘The Swimmer’ was a memorial for Nirvana singer Kurt COBAIN. PEARLS BEFORE SWINE (including Tom RAPP solo) is included on PA because of the first two albums that fit in the psych folk (and perhaps proto-prog) category, as well as his solo effort “Stardancer”. Furthermore, listeners of mild folk (with symphonic tendencies) will also find a strong album in “The Use of Ashes”, whereas others become fan of the Tom RAPP style and end up collecting most of his releases (like me). Bio by Friso |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 31 2012 at 11:32
| I would appreciate some reactions here |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 01 2012 at 08:08
|
Friso,
This is very good work and shows a strong understanding of Rapp and his musical history. Thanks.
Two changes I would suggest:
- Change the leading sentence for mk III section to read "In 1970 RAPP and his wife, like so many other folk and rock acts of that period, traveled to Nashville to record “The Use of Ashes” supported by long list of local studio musicians."
- Combine mk III and IV into a single iteration of the group. Other than the Nashville studios there really isn't much difference in Rapp's approach to the three albums from this period.
Otherwise this is a significant improvement over what we currently have listed for PBS/Rapp. Thanks!
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: February 02 2012 at 09:17
|
Fully agreed upon the suggested changes. This is the result:
PEARLS BEFORE SWINE (Melbourne, Florida, USA) is the band formed by folk singer, guitar-player and songwriter Tom RAPP and some of his high school friends. Though RAPP would remain the only standing member of the band over the years, this first line-up can be attributed with the first two albums, “One Nation Underground” (1967) and “Balaklava” (1968), on which PEARLS BEFORE SWINE can be described as a psychedelic and progressive folk group. Both albums were released by ESP. After this Tom RAPP would continue to record milder folk records under the PEARLS BEFORE SWINE flag with a diversity of studio musicians until dropping the bandname in 1973. He then delivered another three albums under his own name (these are also included on this page) before becoming a civil rights lawyer. In 1999 Tom RAPP would return with another solo album. RAPP would eventually become a cult-idol because of his mystical and political songwriting and his emotionally driven, folky and almost whimsical (in a good way) vocal performances. I The first line-up of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE consisted of Tom RAPP, Wayne HARLEY, Lane LEDERER and Roger CRISSINGER. Together they would record the classic “One Nation Underground” (1967), a psychedelic folk album with some heavy edges, psychedelic moods, political lyrics and mystical folk songs. The album sold a reasonable 250.000 copies, but due to lack of proper management the band would not profit very much from this. In 1968 the band would re-emerge with again RAPP, CRISSINGER and LEDERER, this time joined by Jim BOHANNON and some guest musicians in the studio. “Balaklava” (1968) would be their most progressive effort with a continuation in style, but with a more daring approach with psychedelic sound-effects, symphonic arrangements and a dark ending song based on the ‘The Lord of the Rings’. II On the third album “These Things Too” (1969) the band’s line up changed significantly. RAPP would be joined by his wife (of Dutch origin) Elisabeth, Wayne HARLEY, Jim FAIRS as well as some studio musicians. This album would be their first album on the Reprise label, but unfortunately the recording quality was rather poor. Mainly for this reason this album is perceived as the lesser PEARLS BEFORE SWINE ALBUM. III In 1970 RAPP and his wife, like so many other folk and rock acts of that period, traveled to Nashville to record “The Use of Ashes” supported by long list of local studio musicians. The sound changed to that of a well-produced folk sound with pop-arrangements reminding us a bit of Bob DYLAN, but with a symphonic edge to it. “The Use of Ashes” is perceived as one of the best albums of Tom RAPP because of its splendid sound, delicate style and songwriting. Leftovers from these recording sessions were release in 1971 as “City of Gold” a.ka. “Nashville album”. This album has a wider range of styles, including country, folk and the return of psychedelic influences on the last tracks of the album. Elisabeth RAPP would contribute a lot on these two albums. The last album recorded under the PEARLS BEFORE SWINE flag is the 1972 “…Beautiful Lies You could live in” with RAPP and his wife as standing members. The song-writing on this album is particularly strong, sentimental and intimate, though the reverb-folk sound was replaced by a more dry, down to the earth folk recording. IV In 1972 Tom RAPP’s first solo album was released “Familiar Songs”. It was a collection of demos and re-recordings of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE songs that was released without RAPP’s knowledge. The album doesn’t have a sound that is significantly different from the album before it, but is mainly interesting because of a couple of new songs and new arrangements for older songs of PEARLS BEFORE SWINE. In the same year RAPP signed with Blue Thumb, a record label that would fully acknowledge his status as solo-artist, though RAPP would remain his touring group PEARLS BEFORE SWINE with Art ELLIS and Bill ROLLINS. RAPP would gain full control over the recording of “Stardancer” (1972), which is seen as one of his finest records by both critics and himself. On this album Rapp would fall back on psychedelic leanings of the first two PEARLS BEFORE SWINE albums, making it an interesting album for listeners of psych-folk. In 1973 Tom RAPP would record the “Sunforest” album, on which PEARLS BEFORE SWINE was also mentioned on the cover artwork. On this album, which is generally seen as a weaker album, there are pop, folk and up-tempo tracks. In the mid-seventies Rapp would eventually leave the music industry to become a successful civil rights lawyer. V In 1997 Tom RAPP was contacted by the Ptolemaic Terrascope magazine, which would lead to him reappearing at Terrastock festival with his sons band ‘Shy Camp’. This would in turn inspire him to the writing and recording of “A Journal of the Plague Year” (1999) which had both new songs and previously unrecorded tracks. The album has a surprisingly recognizable sound for listeners of RAPP’s music of the seventies because of its intimate, delicate folk style. The song ‘The Swimmer’ was a memorial for Nirvana singer Kurt COBAIN. PEARLS BEFORE SWINE (including Tom RAPP solo) is included on PA because of the first two albums that fit in the psych folk (and perhaps proto-prog) category, as well as his solo effort “Stardancer”. Furthermore, listeners of mild folk (with symphonic tendencies) will also find a strong album in “The Use of Ashes”, whereas others become fan of the Tom RAPP style and end up collecting most of his releases (like me). |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 02 2012 at 17:08
|
And Pearls Before Swine are now http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=3781" rel="nofollow - Pearls Before Swine/Tom Rapp with your bio posted. Thanks again for the thorough work!
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: February 03 2012 at 04:10
| Thank you! Shall I add the four Rapp albums then? |
Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: February 03 2012 at 08:03
|
Sure, go ahead!
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |