"Occupy" Protests
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Topic: "Occupy" Protests
Posted By: JJLehto
Subject: "Occupy" Protests
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:05
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Surprised no one has made a thread about this yet, so here it is: What was originally the Occupy Wall Street protest, which was a bunch of people camping out in protest of corporate greed...has now spread to 70 cities and seems to have taken on a 99% vs the 1% theme, as well as corporate greed, general power and influence of big business and the whole government being f**ked. So what do you think? I'm pretty pessimistic, these things never amount to much and they are asking for pretty radical changes in the very fiber of America functions. What does excite me though is despite this being called a "left tea party" the group has been quite varied. Liberals and conservatives, socialists and anarchists, hippies and veterans. The vast vast majority of us Americans are pissed off, and really it all is over the same problem. We turned to Democrats, then Republicans. Both are slaves and the Tea Party movement is too extreme (and phony by this point) If a massive, nationwide peaceful protest that is truly unified can last, well that'd be a beautiful thing! So I don't know, obviously no plan and no real chance of getting anything changed but I admire what is happening. Thoughts about any of it? |
Replies:
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:18
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It makes me think of the "high water mark" bit in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. Just hope something can come from it, instead of being looked back upon years later with its failure. I may take a trip to NYC and at the very least grab some pictures, maybe bring some supplies (supposedly listed on a website) to the protesters. Every little bit. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:23
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change happens because enough people want it to-- but yes, an organic movement rather than an organized one would be nice to see, though by your description of us pissed-off Americans it sounds like the Tea Party and this Coffee Party(?) could just as well join forces, as they seem to essentially want the same things (other than their stance on government) |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:30
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If they had a plan beyond their "down to wall street!" protests they could at least have some impact...
Now politicians are trying to use that for their benefit. Go figure. I have to work so I can't join them. And I know I'm lucky to have a job. ------------- 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:48
Well, we got bogged down with "isms" and sides and fine details but yeah, the large majority of Americans (and all world citizens) are middle/working class. It doesn't even need to be the "lower" ones...the tea party originally was an upper middle movement and at my current job, largely an upper middle demographic, people are pissed the hell off Ask people across the spectrum and every walk, you'll find the grievances ARE generally the same. Problem is "we need to win, then argue about what to do"  we all may hate the government and system but just what to do is the issue. Like I said, as hopeful as I want to be...realistically can't imagine much coming from this. I also can't join Teo (being a weekender may defeat the purpose) but you could always go and give supplies, take pics and spread word on FB. 46% believe that capitalism "isn’t fundamentally evil; it just needs to be regulated When asked about their thoughts on Obama, 40% said they "believed in him, but were let down" 22% "said he's doing the best he can," and 27% "never believed in him." Seems to be more diverse and not leaning too much to any side. Can't be said of the tea party that's for sure |
Atavachron wrote:Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 11 2011 at 23:56
| Its a very diverse crowd. I usually go and talk to people. Some people who are really smart (usually Ron Paul supporters) and others not so smart (usually calling for democratic socialism), but yeah, you guys should go and just chat with people there. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:02
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It would be a little less silly if they weren't so hypocritical. They claim they are against wall street and bailouts for billionaires, but they want to reelect Obama, who is the one who bailed out wall street and let them off the hook in exchange for political donations. They rail against capitalism, but they love celebrities like Michael Moore who made their fortunes as capitalists. If their message was even remotely consistent and coherent, I might have some respect for them.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:07
Exactly what I plan to do.
Some sure but not all, that was kinda my point there are people all over the place, which is what I do like about it. Even if it accomplishes nothing like it probably will end up being...it's nice to see people unifying behind the general ideas for once. And seriously llama, thats why I put those stats we all love. They are not all rallying against Capitalism, all certainly do not want Obama and how do you know they all love celebs? Even if so what does that matter anyway? We are still imperfect human beings as well dont forget. It is incoherent but you sir llama were the one who opened my eyes that liberals and libertarians DO have the same beefs and ultimately want the same goal. I hate saying "us vs them" or "99% vs 1%" but I think its a somewhat unified concept. They are just sick of being pushed around and pissed upon. That is all. Aren't you? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:14
Some sure but not all, that was kinda my point there are people all over the place, which is what I do like about it. Even if it accomplishes nothing like it probably will end up being...it's nice to see people unifying behind the general ideas for once. And seriously llama, thats why I put those stats we all love. They are not all rallying against Capitalism, all certainly do not want Obama and how do you know they all love celebs? Even if so what does that matter anyway? We are still imperfect human beings as well dont forget. It is incoherent but you sir llama were the one who opened my eyes that liberals and libertarians DO have the same beefs and ultimately want the same goal. I hate saying "us vs them" or "99% vs 1%" but I think its a somewhat unified concept. They are just sick of being pushed around and pissed upon. That is all. Aren't you? [/QUOTE] Of course not all of them are idiots, and I sympathize with the ones who are upset because they have lost their jobs, but it infuriates me that they demand more government to solve the problem when government caused the problem in the first place. I don't think that liberals and libertarians have remotely the same goals. The far left wants the complete enslavement of everyone except movie stars, whereas libertarians want people to be free, but I digress. As for the things I said about the Occupiers, I am only repeating what I have seen them say on the news, but obviously the few people they single out are not the entirety of the mob. I do, however, really resent the amount of trash and destruction they are causing. I saw a photo of one of them defecating on a police car. I believe in the right to peaceful protest, but I think such conduct is abhorrent and irresponsible and it's no way to be taken seriously as a movement. -------------
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Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:17
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Meh. I got like, real sh*t to worry about.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:23
So predictable  Hey I'm there with ya, but what can I say? I tried my best to just not care and focus on "life" but thinking I can easily balance the two Can't disagree llama. It's another reason this is doomed to fail, these things are inevitably going to get out of hand and the stuff like that is disgusting and counter productive. Also just a matter of time before anon gets too involved and shoots the whole thing to hell but it doesn't matter right now. I still say it's good. Besides, how often do we get to know people? I'm looking forward to just being able to talk to some of em, maybe set up a YT channel with some videos I took and finally start that blog I wanted.  Want to see for myself how diverse this crowd really is. |
Posted By: KoS
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:26
| Oh, I'm all for that. In fact I was planning to take my camera and do some interviews with a couple of friends in the LA one. Hilarity will ensue. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:28
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Or buy a Marxist pin with their bank-controlled currency and call it capitalism. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:29
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I think this 'movement' needs a leader of some type, some centralized figure.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:29
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haha I'll try to keep it a bit more serious, I know surprise right? |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:32
This is where it can go astray, and I do like the kinda unorganized "this is what a bunch of us are doing" feel but yeah, if they hope to accomplish anything that would probably help. Remember people, if you are unhappy you don't need to sit around and say "yeah but I have more important things to do" or "whats the point?" Pull a shawshank redemption and endless pester politicians, at least to be a thorn. Go talk to some protesters and film it. If you don't care than cool, but if you do then at least do something! |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:35
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It's not that I don't care, but I do not even have time to join. Too many things to do.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:46
Oh I mean in general. It is not like I can "join" either. On of my buds from school is going to philly and trying to tell me how I should legit join but unlike him I work |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:52
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Good for protestations.......in light of Financial irregularities. This should be a protest against banking ethics globally not just in USA.
I do believe though that almost everyone can hold their hands up for excess in the good times.But the bonuses and Big Finance blunders were just cashing in on a sunk finance model. When I say everyone, I am generalizing folks, so nothing personal I am sure there are many individuals who can hold their heads up high, I just think the protests are missing the point slightly :-)
Blaming Obama for the current situation is a joke too, both democrats and republicans run Wall Street. Money transcends political parties IMO. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 00:53
| I don't know anyone specific so I won't comment on them specifically, but my impression is that they're a lot of people with a lot of rage, some for good reasons some not. There's really no point in being against greediness as a concept. It's not one of the 7 sins for nothing; it's not going away any more than lust is. The problem is that our federal government bailed them out. (Correction: a number of shysters who acted without the consent of the people used the peoples' money to keep a****les who swindled the people out of their investments in charge, leading them to nevitably f**k up once more). There is no accountability for failure, and in many cases promotions for the same policies that continue now. If government is going to take any part in this, it should be the forced firing of bank CEOs, although I'd also accept the resignation of all federal government employees everywhere. That would be an acceptable term. Also, the LAST thing this movement needs is another f**king phony to act like a figurehead and co-opt the rage and resentment into some bullsh*t pro-government charade of revolving door politicians. Anyone who supports more government as a political ideology is not worthy of your vote, and last time I checked almost all of them do. That is the real 99%. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 01:03
Unless there was a typo I'd say you have it in reverse, Wall Street runs both the dems and reps, which is certainly no new news  money certainly does transcend the parties. I don't want an end to capitalism and taking a sledgehammer to the companies, bring it all down man. At the minimal an open government that serves the people is all I want. Doesn't seem like such an insane idea. I will agree Drew that I really would not like a figure head. It would almost certainly be phony and just becomes a mess. The "street level" ethos of it all is what it's about anyway. I think, not even they really know what's going on. Again, its a mess but I like that it's happening and the showing of rage is good. IMO the only ones involved that aren't legit are those going along just for sh*ts, or just to be involved. You don't need to have lost a job or be poor to be angry right now. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 01:32
^ My point being is Wall Street consists of both Democrats and republicans. It is not an apolitical entity ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 01:37
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oh yes the differences they fight over are negligible and irrelevant, they are the same party. Wall Street pretty much is a political entity, I do believe that's the ultimate root of all this. And according to the all knowing Wikipedia there have been some protests in cities outside the US. As you and I said, people all over the globe are in the same boat and I'm sure lots of them are angry as well. Maybe more will keep popping up. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 06:26
There is talk of such protests happening in London - if our recent record of 'peaceful' protests is anything to go by, so called 'anarchists' (ie violent  heads with nothing better to do with their lives) will take over the protest & the ensuing violence will be the only thing covered by the UK media, leaving the legitimate protesters tarred with the violent brush - again!------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 06:51
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They may not have started out with a set of demands or much of plan beyond protesting, but this is a true grassroots movement. The tea baggers are what you call astroturf. There are no doubt sincere believers but the driving force behind them are the http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html" rel="nofollow - Billionaires Bankrolling the Tea Immediately Fox News and the mainstream trying to dismiss them unlike the way they fawned over the tea party.  I think the main service they have done so far is revealing what jerks so many Republican politicians are. They are out there protesting how the middle and lower classes have been beaten up by the class war and get accused of engaging in class warfare. Herb (thank you Sarah) Cain. Says they all need to just go out and get a job and become rich themselves. The jobs aren't there but thanks to cutting of grants many are buried up to their necks in loans without jobs to pay for them. The first salvos of the class war were fired by Reagan and the Republicans. You can only drive down the standard of living of the 99% so far and not wreck the economy. Any attempts to redirect their anger towards Obama are laughable. Obama's biggest fault was coming into office pre-compromising and now you hear this bull crap from Cantor: "I think he's broken his promise as a uniter, and now he's dividing people. And to me, that's very unproductive." The whole reason the stimulus didn't turn the economy around is that Obama was too timid and the resulting stimulus too weak and often misdirected. Here's the most laughable kind of rhetoric coming from the right and sorry another cartoon makes the point really well:  The 2012 election is now going to be fairly interesting, because the money floodgates have been opened by the Supreme Court. Will so many people be persuaded to vote against their best interest or have they had enough? These protests are going to be pretty much the only countervailing force against the money. We still have free speech in this country somewhat. But we're also up against forces working hard to discourage or put road blocks up for the wrong kind of people to exercise their right. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:07
To be fair, it's a lot easier to be sympathetic when people know what they are protesting ("economic injustice" doesn't really mean anything). Yeah, it''s not really true to call the Tea Party "grass roots" (although it's moreso as time goes one), but even NPR ran a snarky piece about OWS, and they usually sympathize with any anecdote they can find. Melissa Block called that manifesto they released recently "inchoate thoughts" to someone's face. And we he responded "Well, first of I think that's a beautifully written document..."
Because nobody on the left has any money. Obama raised more money for his campaign than anyone in history from conservative billionaires, obviously. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:33
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Obama got a lot of money from small donations from the 99%ers. He also got some big money support. Guess who got what they paid for?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:40
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Thank you, Henry. Slarti, surely you can see that there is a difference between respectful protestors who clean up after themselves and have a defined message and a rowdy mob who defecate on police cars and whose message consists of meaningless slogans. I saw someone on the news complaining that they were angry at wall street because they lost their home. Guess what? You lost your home because you couldn't pay the mortgage. Don't buy things you can't afford! -------------
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:52
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There have also been a number of 'End the Fed' protests, on a smaller scale, but no one seems to care about that.
Do the 99%ers think the Federal Reserve bailing out private foreign banks and other corporations with devalued digital money, is a good thing? Do they not understand?. Do they even care? or do they actually support it? If we're not careful, the 'well meaning' liberals, will end up clashing with the Libertarian 'End the Fed' brigade. Divide and conquer, hey? I was disapointed to hear michael Moore, last week, dismiss the practices of the Fed as being unimportant in all this. He continues to bleat his anti capitalist mantra. Not bad going really; a former communist party member who has amassed a personal fortune of over $100,000,000 on the back of the evil system that sold his films and books. The problem isn't free market capitalism, it's crony capitalism and corporate fascism. In my humble opinion. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:52
Well, that's quite glib with regard to mortgages, and you're overselling the tea party a bit (which tended to be much more organized to begin with). I wouldn't say all of the slogans are meaningless, it's just that they've managed to attract people who want higher taxes on the wealthy as well as anarchists...
wat And FYI you are in the 1% by living in America/Europe and having an internet connection (probably just living in America but I don't want to push it). ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 07:57
There's every danger of that Jim, although I'm inclined to think such protests wont gather such momentum over here. It's just a hunch, but I think the US is more 'awake' to what's going around them, we're a little more apathetic, in my opinion. It's worth noting that Theresa May has been talking about legislation to prohibit protests in some parts of London, in light of the recent riots. Such 'emergency legislation' could be passed, if they thought Canary Wharf was about to be occupied by the nations dispossessed. There is an 'Occupy Europe' movement underway, apparently. Someone linked me to it on FB, but I've heard nothing on the news about this. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 08:00
Sorry, Henry. Don't understand your point. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 08:02
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I'm not really sure I have one. However, the vast majority of the public is now against bailouts, regardless of the macroeconomic consequences.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 08:14
Yes, I would hope that's true. I was maybe being a little flippant, there. But, MY point, later in my post was that, while people are venting spleen on capitalism, they seem oblivious to the reality that government taking care of a select few private corporations at the expense of their competitors, is not a capitalist model. Tea Partyers may call the kind of cronyism a move towards communism, but I see it as corporate fascism. A case in point: General Electric. Bailed out by the Fed, to the tune of $600,000,000. They turn a profit of over $14B in 2010, but are exempt from paying a cent in corporation tax. Tax the rich? Really? Who are the rich? Many people who are calling for the rich to be taxed, may be surprised to learn that they may be the rich, that Obama has got in his sights. It depends how you define 'rich. There's rich, and there's "too big to fail"  ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 08:17
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The search for common ground (of course, this is removing the big money that backs segments of each group):
  -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 08:48
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Hard to have an opinion about such a varied group of people.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 09:15
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 09:17
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[Occupy/Tea Party] is just a bunch of stooges for [Soros/Koch Bros.]. Whereas [Tea Party/Occupy] is truly a grassroots movement. I can't understand how you can compare those [smelly hippies/racist rednecks] to the "real" Americans who are just exercising their First Amendment rights. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 09:51
Exactly this! It also goes for the population. Not only are we a country of Democrats and Republicans but also all the other parties. All these people in govt are supposedly smart, intelligent folk.........Well even smart, intelligent folk make bad decisions, I could care less what party you are affiliated with, if you make a bad choice and especially make them over and over then you need to go....any business model would support this.
The protesting probably has a very good platform, if it is a generic complaint they have against bad choices, then more power to them.
Soon as the finger pointing starts based on party affiliation, it then means nothing and nothing will come of it, which is probably the case anyway.
Krapp I don't even watch the news anymore, its such a depressing topic the whole US situation. Sure things will get better but something has to change, drastically and I don't believe the US is in a financial position to make any drastic changes quickly.......It will get worse before it gets better.
As this Occupy protest will.......soon there will be looting, riots, people hurt, arrests and eventually some people will probably be killed in a riot or something.......lets hope not!!!!
It will get worse before it gets better...... -------------   
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 10:03
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^^^ Protests turning violent is any governments wet dream. It means they can then go in hard and break them up, and then use the media to demonise the movement as 'unpatriotic' or as 'terrorists' or 'anarchists' or other such nonesense.
As Malcolm X said: "If we're not careful, the newspapers will have us hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving those who are doing the oppressing" Or words to that effect... ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 10:08
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This is for you Slarti:
http://www.freep.com/article/20111010/BLOG24/111009027/Your-Mike-President-Obama-Occupy-Wall-St-?odyssey=mod|mostcom" rel="nofollow - http://www.freep.com/article/20111010/BLOG24/111009027/Your-Mike-President-Obama-Occupy-Wall-St-?odyssey=mod|mostcom ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:04
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And what is so bad about the word "anarchist" that I see people here use, as always since you've been conditioned to, in abject fear? Oh I imagine you immediately picture gangs of people pillaging everything and setting the cities on fire.... I can't talk about all the Occupy people. I'm sure a high percentage are in a situation that requires them to take this action and good for them, confused in their targets as they might be. There must be at least a decent percentage, though, that are there because they don't have the jobs they want and don't want to get anything lower than their expectations ask for. And there must be a percentage of opportunists. And a percentage of just lazy people. A little bit of everything with no clear message except "down with wall street". Yes right. -------------
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:08
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I am a supporter, but not for the reason most of the others are. I understand it to be a largely liberal movement that wants to remove the free-market. I just wanna get rid of the w**kers that are f**king it up. No sense in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Any true capitalist should not oppose occupy tho, because it is actually the consumers exercising their rights. Boycotts and protests mean the free-market is actually working to some extent. ------------- 
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:15
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http://mises.org/daily/5761/What-Radicalism" rel="nofollow - Good piece on the subject http://mises.org/daily/5753/Occupied-by-Government" rel="nofollow - And another. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:17
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And, as many have said already, it's ironic how the police is piling and abusing these protesters, yet these protesters want more and more government control, of which a strong brutal police force is an essential part.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:45
| I believe our federal government is too far gone down the road of corporatism, special benefits, back door deals, and especially wanting more government to ever be able to right itself on it own, at let alone to the point of justice. Maybe if things get significantly worse for more and more people. Then it will be interesting to see whether or not it comes to violence. We're so eager to support protests and uprisings in Syria and Libya, I just wonder if it we'll be so embracing of that when corporate domination of politics here gets as undemocratic as actual strongman dictatorships over there. |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:48
I have a feeling that's coming the way here due to a huge decrease of wages for the general population. Let's hope it doesn't turn really ugly.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:48
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^As I said somewhere else, the Syrian and Libyan armies could be defeated by an armed populace so a violent and successful revolt against those governments wasn't unthinkable. Try to do that with the government that commands the most powerful army in the world. -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:53
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But American soldiers and national guard troops are less likely to obey orders to shoot civilians. Maybe.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 11:53
The thing is, as least now, a violent uprising in the United States is itself unthinkable. It would require that illusion that it's the best country on earth to be shattered completely, which is asking a lot anyway. I don't think we'll come to that, but it is interesting to think of how we'd handle it as a nation if our people were that dissatisfied. I seriously and completely don't believe our military would wage a war against its own populace, but that it unpredictable. I image if things continue this way, secession is much more likely. Perhaps the breaking up of the Union in some ways. Which, honestly, I can't find a reason not to support.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:03
Maybe. I would hope so. But just maybe. On the other hand, yes, a breaking of the union would be a likely result and nothing to be extremely scared of. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:11
Except the last time that happened, there was kind of an enormous war.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:15
You got something better to do than die in combat over a hill? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:16
Well, the new Parks and Rec is Thursday...
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:18
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I assume that it would be canceled in the even of civil war.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:32
Meh. If they cancel Arrested Development again, then it's really on.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 12:43
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Oh, we both know Arrested Development isn't really going to happen. You might as well die in battle right now and save yourself the agony.
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 13:01
| "We are trapped in the belly of this horrible machine and the machine is bleeding to death" |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 13:04
I can never stop from laughing at "I pulled out my wallet, and it was full of blood." I know what he's getting at, but... ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 13:14
lol Don't be so naive. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 16:53
 In the end there probably won't ever be a unified set of demands, but if you think they want to either abolish the free market or have total governmental control, then you have oversimplified to point of being completely wrong. This more like tea party kind of thinking. We can't raise taxes because raising taxes means everyone's taxes get raised. As if you can't just raise taxes on the super wealthy. Then there's these other moronic concepts like all regulation is bad, all taxes are bad, the government can't create jobs...  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 18:32
And those moronic concepts are pretty much true. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 18:33
On the other hand, they were all trained to obey orders blindly and were all trained to kill so you are probably right. -------------
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 20:19
I don't think they're going to do that. Maybe some good ol' police brutality, but nothing too crazy. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 20:24
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Without reading any of the previous discussions and hoping that no one except me (and on the offhand chance Padraic Pat) cares somewhat about Rhode Island, the protests have come to Providence. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 20:25
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 20:30
Tell that to Oscar Grant. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 20:49
Yeah, well. sh*t happens. Cops are not exactly the most tame kind of people. They're trained to be pragmatic, realistic and very brutal. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 21:14
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Best possible future: 4 party system: Tea Party, Republican, Democrat, Occupy ------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 21:28
What would that accomplish? |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 21:40
Then why do you assume nothing too crazy will happen? ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 22:10
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 22:25
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Soldiers and cops are paid to defend the government and to enforce its laws. They aren't paid to defend the people or to protect the people. If they have to choose between obeying orders from those who command them or defending/protecting the people, while some will probably want to do the latter, most will definitely choose the former. The first thing they are taught are not to question authority and to see the "other" (soldier from other army/criminal/suspect/whatever) as someone with a lesser degree of humanity than they have (if not they wouldn't be able to kill, they HAVE to learn to view these people as "others"), so this is not really the best recipe to guarantee that, in the case of an uprising, protesters wouldn't be hurt. Yes, many are good natured people and will not abuse their power and will think before they shoot, but many won't. And the impunity that their status gives them doesn't help. -------------
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 22:36
Just trying to be optimistic for once. You know how I feel. |
Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: October 12 2011 at 23:04
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 01:08
MoM helping to prove a point of mine!? The unity continues |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 01:40
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For what it's wort, I really am realistic about all this. This guy on FB is annoying me with his now militaristic profile pic and continual updates of anarchist punk songs, qutoes and statuses about how this is the revolution....  |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 03:38
It will be characters like that who will be held up as figures of ridicule if things get out of hand. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 07:33
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Posted By: ClemofNazareth
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 12:39
Maybe....
 Kent State
 Ruby Ridge
 Wounded Knee
 Branch Davidians at Waco
 Fred Hampton, assassinated by Chicago Police as part of http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIa.htm" rel="nofollow - COINTELPRO , the FBI's covert operations against American citizens which a special Congressional committee concluded -
"conducted a sophisticated vigilante operation aimed squarely at preventing the exercise of First Amendment rights of speech and association, on the theory that preventing the growth of dangerous groups and the propagation of dangerous ideas would protect the national security and deter violence."
The committee further stated that "many of the techniques used would be intolerable in a democratic society even if all of the targets had been involved in violent activity, but COINTELPRO went far beyond that. The unexpressed major premise of the programs was that a law enforcement agency has the duty to do whatever is necessary to combat perceived threats to the existing social and political order."
A little off-topic maybe, but enough to indicate our troops and police certainly could be motivated to shoot their own fellow citizens.
------------- "Peace is the only battle worth waging." Albert Camus |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: October 13 2011 at 13:21
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Yeah. Examples are plentiful. Hell less than 30 years ago in my own city the mayor had a bomb dropped on a residential house.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 19:02
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 19:29
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That one is actually funny. -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 20:12
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This whole affair is deliciously ironic on so many levels
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 20:24
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*sigh* I think the entire world is going to go through Stagflation for at least the next couple of years. Even supply-side might not save this entire situation. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 20:33
Well of course not, when has it ever saved anything? Sorry to start derailing my own thread but at page 5 I'm assuming it's long derailed anyway. Guess I should read all these responses, but this guy keeps pissing me off. All these days later, still all the FB statuses about solidarity and anarchist punk songs....sheesh give it a rest. He's a bum anyway, complains but never votes, yaps and yaps but lives off government checks (and I have no problem saying that because he really doesn't do sh*t ever...plays the "starving artist" deal but never worked a day in his life) that's the kind of person that will ruin this thing. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 20:48
List of things supply side economics has saved: The Day The Whales The Rainforest Me a seat at the opera Ronald Reagan's presidency A penny earned For its retirement The souls of thousands Ayn Rand devotees South Korea -------------
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:01
Glad you are using some of the llama humor, because I really am not in a serious mood right now |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:03
I think we need to cut spending before we lower taxes. Fair and simple as that. First, wasteful overseas military spending. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:05
Yes, well, you think a lot of things. -------------
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:11
How are you going to convince the voters supply-side economics will work? They watch too much MSNBC to get the point. Maybe an enthusiastic person like you can entertain them with your fantastic intellectual abilities. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:43
I hope so. I was just offered a job at a conservative think tank in DC, so I am thrilled about that. Maybe I'll actually make a difference. -------------
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 21:45
There's often a problem with that though. There's not as much freedom in these think tanks as there is in academia. I learned from first-hand experiences. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:02
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But I don't like academia very much.
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:04
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I think I'll eventually end up in academia. |
Posted By: progistoomainstream
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:41
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Now even in Canada we are having "occupy" rallies. I agree that in america all three party movements are far too extreme or not extreme enough. However in Canada we have 3-5 major politcal parties and it is unneccarry. I agree that in america, the top 1% pretty much runs the show and that a more socialist system would be a breath of fresh air for "the greatest country in the world." But I see the opposition too large. And not to stereotype, but those who are against the "occupy" movements are usually the ones that are most willing to get violent. So yes it is a good idea but its the opposition is just too large. ------------- 
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:46
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There's something funny about America. The "socialism" that would help this country usually does not get passed, but we get the "socialism" that no one except the elite class wants. It's freakin' ridiculous. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:58
In my FB there's a few idiots (not related to PA) who continuously put links and support comments to Occupy yet I know them: most of them are good-for-nothings who dream of a perfect world and would love a totalitarianism that guarantees their right to live while not doing sh*t. There you go, another nice generalization. When having a sense of entitlement starts to become part of the spirit of the youth of a nation, that nation is certainly going down. And no, no socialism would be good. And there's only ONE kind of socialism. -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 22:59
lol, nobody gives a sh*t about think tanks. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: October 17 2011 at 23:13
Something I've heard about "Socialism for the top, Capitalism for the rest" THAT is truly what the free market is about amirite!? |