Dream Theatre - any recommendations
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8150
Printed Date: March 04 2025 at 04:46
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Topic: Dream Theatre - any recommendations
Posted By: Big Ears
Subject: Dream Theatre - any recommendations
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 11:14
| I like ELP, Yes, etc. I don't know much about American progressive rock such as Dream Theatre and Shadow Gallery (I know a bit about Spock's Beard). Can anyone recommend DT's or SG's best albums? Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: Retrovertigo
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:20
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Scenes From A Memory: Metropolis Part II is arguably Dream
Theater's creative and instrumental peak. I think it's their
best, and the ratings here agree with me. Room V is the newest Shadow Gallery album and probably their best. It's tough to say because Carved in Stone and Tyranny are great also. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:25
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I disagree (slightly) on DT: Awake MIGHT be the better album, depends on your background. Awake is more diverse, also more original. Scenes is a concept album, very well structured and arranged. I prefer Awake, although I would never give away any of them (or my other DT albums, for that matter). Regarding Shadow Gallery: Room V is their best, but you might want to start with Tyranny (which is nearly as good), because Room V is it's successor (part 2), so you can enjoy the albums in the proper chronological order. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to: 
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Retrovertigo wrote:Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 13:57
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Shadow Gallery's entire catalogue is very good.I would start with Carved in Stone,Legacy,Tyranny and then Room V. Dream Theater's Scenes from a Memory,A Change of Seasons(ep),Images and Words,Awake,Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence and Octavarium. If you like DT and SG I also highly recommend Pain of Salvation,Shadow Gallery,Vanden Plas,Pagan's Mind,Andromeda,Sieges Even,Ayreon,Psychotic Waltz,Beyond Twilight,Chain,Kamelot,Evergrey,Fates Warning,Into Eternity,Ice Age,Adagio,Time Requiem...to name a few -------------  |
Posted By: norbert88
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 14:05
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These are the 3 DT albums I would recommend: *** Images and Words *** *** Awake *** *** Scenes From A Memory *** norbert88 |
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 14:29
Start with "Images & Words", then get "Awake", then get "Scenes From a Memory", "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" etc. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: June 29 2005 at 15:10
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Posted By: Cygnus_LDS
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 07:59
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If you ask me, for starters, AWAKE. Images & Words
is great for starters also (especially for Metropolis PT 1), but Awake has a unique and diverse sound from the rest of the album, and it is Kevin Moore's best perfomance on a DT album. After Images & Words, go with Scenes from a Memory, you'll undersatnd why. |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 08:05
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That is exactly the sequence that I would have suggested. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 08:06
 ------------- Eternity |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 08:25
Replace "Scenes..." with "Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence" ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: proger
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 10:58
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Dream Theater- Scenes From A Memory and imegas... ------------- ...live for tomorrow... |
Posted By: Ed_The_Dead
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 11:02
naaaaaaaaaah!!!!!! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ed_the_dead/?chartstyle=asimpleblue5"> 
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Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:08
It's got some of DT's best work, but also some of its worst. Very, very inconsistent. ------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:11
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Dream Theatre - any recommendations Yes, listen to something else! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 01 2005 at 12:13
Are you saying that "Scenes" is inconsistant? You're kidding right? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: bogdan.
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 05:22
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When Dream And Day Unite
------------- GATHER ye rosebuds while ye may, Old Time is still a-flying: And this same flower that smiles to-day To-morrow will be dying. Carpe Diem! |
Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: July 02 2005 at 22:44
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Dream Theater: Just buy 'em all. Shadow Gallery: |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 04:53
------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:37
I agree with anyone who says "Scenes" is problematic. For me it's derivative, incoherent garbage. One of the biggest reasons for its success was that a lot of people were disappointed in the commercial and unimaginative direction DT took with "Falling into Infinity" and that DT announced that the next album was going to be a "back to the roots" ("back to images") album, the most 'progressive' thing they ever did. Before the album was released everybody knew that it's going to be a classic, and everybody knew that they'll love it. (How to create a piece of art in the public consciousness, Lesson One: ... ) Oh well, I just abhor 90 % of this overhyped, badly produced, patchy, incoherent collection of rehashed fragments with its schoolboy lyrics. The only song worth listening to is "Strange Deja Vu" although it could never have been written outside a prog history full of Kansas. Apart from some Marillion albums it's the biggest prog disappointment ever. For me. People will love it of course (and nobody knows why). 
(And no, I'm not a DT hater. I really, really like the stuff they did with Kevin Moore, some of the Sherinian stuff and the fat rehash of "Master of Puppets" on "Train of Thought".) ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:40
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You don't know anything about music. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 07:45
Yeah. You're da man. 
------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:06
I didn't mean to offend you, but you made some pretty silly statements that make me laugh. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you made a poll about your post, asking whether your statements are true, arguable or just plainly silly. You can't say that Scenes is crap. Neither can you say that Marillion is crap. Well, you can say what you want, actually, but in this case you're only hurting your credibility ... and you promote both DT and Marillion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 08:10
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Another thing: Although Scenes contains references to Metropolis Pt.1, there are NO similarities to Images & Words. Scenes is not an album that returns to the roots of DT. It's like no previous DT album, largely due to the influence of Rudess, who added many neo-classical elements to their style. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 09:52
Oh well, on a planet where Dieter Bohlen and the Backstreet Boys are massively successful and people like G.W.B. are allowed to live in the White House polls do not mean that much to me. 
Sorry, it seems like you've misread the post. Actually, Marillion is my favourite band of all time.
Again I think you've misread the post. The band said that it was the 'return to Images' to make the old fanbase happy and reconcile them with their music. I didn't say that. Apart from some quotations here and there there's no similarity at all. It rather sounds like a cover medley (Kansas, Roger Waters, King's X/The Beatles, Zappa, Rush, U2 plus some elements from late 70s artrock near the end) done in the LTE style, not like classic DT would have done it. Apart from that this was the album that convinced me that LaBrie is very inconsistent. I think he did a pretty good job on "Awake", a very versatile vocal performance by his standards. On "Scenes" he just came across like a schmaltzy crooner (or Schlagersänger as we'd say in stupid Germany  ).
My main point is that "Scenes" sounds rather bolted together, fragmentary, incoherent and that it seems that DT wear their influences on their sleeves. Yes, musical coherence and compositional originality are two aspects I regard as being very commendable. "Scenes" is below par as regards these aspects. Silly? Or simply a different musical standard with different criteria than yours? ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 10:05
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Sounds a little over the top if you ask me. I didn't mean to say that your whole post was silly. The album is not overhyped ... at least it's propertly counter-bashed. It's not badly produced, that assessment is just wrong. I can't see where it seems patchy ... it all flows nicely. rehashed? don't know what that is supposed to mean. I suppose you mean that they're quoting ideas from other artists. Well, it's entirely subjective whether you think this is good or bad. Schoolboy lyrics? If you don't like them, that's fine, but they are cleverly constructed and make sense. This is again entirely subjective. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 11:38
Is it? Sooo many people say anything else DT has done "pales in comparison to 'Scenes'" or "'Scenes!' No contest." IMO that's really tragic because on other albums, especially on the earlier ones, DT at least tried to establish their own musical identity. I don't know if they succeeded but at least they tried to create and establish it. And then there is this derivative mess which in parts sounds more like Roger Waters than Waters himself does, and everybody goes: "Awwwwww! Awesome." DT began to get rid of large parts of their identity, and everybody loved it. So sad. 
Oh well, the production is flat and overly compressed and the mix is muddy. The production on "Awake" was much more transparent and powerful. Even "Lines in the Sand" is a nice sonic experience although Shirley made the drums on "FII" sound like cookie boxes.
*cough* There are sooo many different styles and sooo many rather short parts on that album so that it comes across as an overambitious mess without depth, atmosphere and a plausible dramatic curve. Maybe the album would have become better if they had decided to use the ideas for a double album. 
Well, Dieter Bohlen's lyrics are 'cleverly constructed' as well, and "Titanic" is a 'cleverly constructed' and well-made movie. But I hope there'll always be people who don't refrain from slating such banalities. As far as lyrics are concerned I simply seem to have higher standards I suppose. Hmmm, maybe we should talk about the merits of "Awake" instead since we all probably prefer agreements to disagreements.  ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 12:44
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I don't see any Roger Waters references in Scenes. Also, the sound they established there was continued on 6DoIT disc 2, it has become THE DT sound of the Rudess era.
Productionwise, I'd prefer Scenes over Awake.
You don't like the album ... you're not even trying to enjoy it. If they had made it a double album, I guess you would be the first to complain about too much filler. It is a complex album, and this complexity is what I enjoy most about it. It's not for everyone, though.
I prefer Awake over Scenes, too. But I doubt that I prefer it for the same reasons that you do. Regarding the Scenes lyrics: I like them fine. Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:32
...
Right: Liquid Tension Experiment with fast (often tuneless) instrumentals, quotations from other bands and schmaltzy ballads.
No problem. I don't have to listen to that stale production.
I have tried. Bought the thing on the day of its release and tried and tried and tried.
Please stop guessing.
An understandable comment. But I wouldn't say it's 'complex'. "Images and Words" is 'complex'. "Scenes" is just 'complicated'. I like complex, technical music. Even if it lacks emotion it can be great. But tracks like "The Dance of Eternity" have no soul anymore. IMO complexity is much more effective if there is a well-defined basis from which the different phrases and parts can deviate. Tracks like "TDoE" lack such a basis and do not come full circle. That's not what I'd call 'a clever structure'.
Correct. 'Lyrics don't always have to be cryptic and mystified.'
Oh, come on. Do the reasons matter? ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 13:39
Come on ... would Roger Waters sing about a murder mystery reincarnation story? There's no Hitchhiker or Amused in Scenes ... give me just one example (I'm really interested). Regarding complexity: Images and Words is the least complex DT album. The only REALLY complex song is Metropolis Pt. 1 ... and THAT is just in the fashion of Scenes. BTW: I'm a guitarist and I can play large parts of Images And Words. A beautiful album. Learning To Live is particularly awesome. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 14:27
| Ugh.... I'm going to say SFAM>>>>>>>>>>Awake There we go, all settled. Scenes From A Memory is just beautiful, not as beautiful as Shine On You Crazy Diamond, but BEAUTIFUL! |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 14:29
Err ... who's talking about textual references? Well, I'm not.
Huh? Less complex then FII, 6DoiT, Octavarium? I think it depends on how you define 'complexity' ... As far as "Metropolis" is concerned: Yes, it was complex, playful - and somehow accessible at the same time. Not my favourite from the album but still decent and well-written. Many DT haters bash the band for producing emotionless, brainless musical masturbation and overly schmaltzy ballads. Years ago I didn't understand what's wrong with their emotionless, brainless musical masturbation - until Rudess came. There's a difference between earlier and later DT. In the earlier days they still managed to sound like a band, not like a bunch of musicians. Apart from that they avoided quotations from 70s prog and classical music: for me that's another reason why later DT became really boring since I think they should stick to their Metal roots. They're Metal heads, always were, always will be. Metal's what they can do best. When they dare to tackle the music of the prog giants, which always requires a certain amount of emotional depth, everything sounds artificial. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 14:51
Whatever ... please give me an example. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 14:56
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Metalheads? How is Jordan Rudess a metalhead? How are JP, MP and JM metalheads? They obviously are not, looking at the music they make/made. If I'm not mistaken, Dream Theater is actually influenced more by Progressive music than Metal. |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 15:46
Regression, The Spirit carries on
I don't know if Rudess is into Metal, too. But the others are, obviously. Their roots can be found in Metal, they've shown their massive appreciation for Metal by covering "The Number of the Beast", "Master of Puppets", parts of "Reign in Blood" and so on, and they are/were capable of writing some of the most impressive Prog Metal songs. Consequently, I guess most members of their fanbase are Metal fans and Prog Metal fans whereas lots of classic Prog fans do not take DT seriously at all. That's why I think it would be best if they stuck to their roots. In Prog they cannot hold a candle to the greats because they lack true emotion, subtlety and depth and the will to be innovative. However, in Prog Metal they're one of the very best bands. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 15:53
Sorry, but if you're referring to the parts where Petrucci is strumming an acoustic guitar, with some synth voices in the background ... that could be ANYTHING. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: King of Loss
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 15:58
Lack True emotion? After listening to Yes and King Crimson and then DT, I don't see much a difference, except that Dream Theater is just heavier. Dream Theater has a lot of emotions in their playing, except its a different type of emotions as compared to Progressive Rock. Heck, at parts John Petrucci sounds miles more musical than a lot of these Progressive Rock greats. |
Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 16:23
Maybe these unimaginative compositions could be anything, but for me the analogy to Waters is obvious. Waters often uses such simplicity and sweetness that could be anything so that the music doesn't distract the listener from the lyrical cynicism and the (great, effective) shaky vocals. And Waters's cynicism is the only thing that makes such moronic compositions bearable for these progweatherbeaten ears.
To 'King of Loss': Sorry, I give up. Pointless discussion. It's a well-known opinion that DT sound like emotionless scale riders and music school graduates rather than like emotional musicians. As I've said: I give up. Sorry.  ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 17:00
Ok ... but we just found out two posts ago that the lyrics and vocals (obviously) don't remind of Waters. So we just have the generic strumming. => Your initial statement "sounds like Waters" is wrong.
Feel free to bash Waters anytime, I don't mind.
That opinion may be well known ... to be false. Only people with no musical background would call Petrucci an emotionless scale rider. But to appreciate his playing, you would have to listen to him without prejudice, which seems ... unlikely. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 17:23
And where did they get the inspiration for such generic moronic singalongs from? Sorry, no, I'd rather think they wanted to play something Floydian, something reminiscent of classic concept album parts everyone is familiar with.
No, I won't. Most stupid compositions can sound great with Waters at the helm.
ROFL. Unbelievable. Please read posts without prejudice! I appreciate most of Petrucci's playing very much. Nevertheless it's emotionless (as well as the band's playing in general), and I appreciate it because it is emotionless and technical since the musical results can be some of the best Prog Metal tracks one can think of. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 17:32
ROFLSM. His playing isn't emotionless. It isn't overtly emotional, but watch the DVDs ... tons of emotional solos. The same applies to Steve Vai ... many people know that he plays some very advanced stuff and sometimes really fast solos, and they automatically assume that he's an emotionless "technician". But when you watch the DVD, you realize from the first minute on that he is dripping with emotion. ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 17:48
Aha ... uhm, I have to watch him to see that he's an 'emotional' player? No, thanx. I'd rather listen to Rothery and Gilmour. They make me hear it!
As I've said: I like most of Petrucci's playing very much. There's nothing wrong with sounding emotionless, technical and shallow as long as it fits to the songs and the overall concept. And there were a lot of wonderful songs: "6.00", "Under a Glass Moon", "The Mirror", "Take the Time", "Learning to live", "Scarred", "Lines in the Sand", "Light Fuse and Get Away", "A Change of Seasons" ... yummy, yummy. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 17:55
So you would say that the blues solo in the intro of Scarred is emotionless? ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 18:04
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The way he plays it: yes, of course. There's no depth at all. And that's fine if you ask me. ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 18:09
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Being a guitarist myself, I - naturally - disagree again. In fact, I remember my guitar teacher, who plays in a very successful local BLUES band, introduced me to Dream Theater and particularly liked about Petrucci that he plays flawlessly and - at the appropriate occasions - quite emotionally. But what do we know ... Let's agree to disagree! ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 03 2005 at 18:45
Of course, I know which occasions you refer to. E.g. the solo in "Lines in the Sand" sounds quite atmospheric. It could almost be on a Floyd album. Almost. But it wouldn't be played by Gilmour but by Renwick (not the best example!) or some other technically skilled but faceless sidekick who knows the ins and outs of his instrument and knows how to simulate emotional phrases. They have the skills to do that. Such sections are part of their technical repertoire, and they can retrieve them whenever they like, just like the 'emotions' good and bad actors can retrieve anytime they're needed. But just like actors such technical guitarists are rarely carried away by their own playing. And one can hear that. Sorry, don't want to sound stubborn but ... I'd just feel like a Martian if I added Petrucci (of all guys ... ) to the list of 'emotional' players. The world would be turned upside down.
 (And let's find an album we could bash together. )------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: MikeEnRegalia
Date Posted: July 04 2005 at 03:34
I didn't say that he's an emotional player (my words were "he's not overtly emotional"). Emotionality is not his foremost quality. But he is not EMOTIONLESS. That's why I suggested that you watch (and listen to ... it seems that I have to spell this one out for you) the DVD and look at his face while he improvises on songs like Hollow Years, Trial Of Tears ... ------------- https://awesomeprog.com/release-polls/pa" rel="nofollow - Release Polls Listened to:
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Posted By: Miaugion
Date Posted: July 04 2005 at 05:00
I didn't think the point was the facial expression though. Sorry, but I guess we're both bored stiff now. Let's try a different topic in the (not too) distant future. [CUT] On topic: Recommendations (for starters): 01 Awake (=> "6:00", "The Mirror", "Scarred") 02 Images and Words (=> "Take the Time", "Under a Glass Moon", "Learning to Live") 03 Falling into Infinity (Although most of the tracks are probably only digestible for MTV fans "Hell's Kitchen" and "Lines in the Sand" are essential and highly recommended) 04 A Change of Seasons (=> title track) ------------- You house proud town mouse ha ha, charade you are |
Posted By: Manunkind
Date Posted: July 14 2005 at 06:38
Nope 1. Regression - 1 star (it gets the one star because it sounds like a bonfire song to me and makes me want to roast a sausage or two, yum!) 2. Overture 1928 - 5 stars 3. Strange Deja Vu - 3,5 stars (missing something badly...) 4. Through My Words - 3 stars (the melodies could've been better) 5. Fatal Tragedy - 5 stars 6. Beyond This Life - 2,75 stars (VERY inconsistent, average sections, alternating with brilliant and awful ones, kind of like the album in a nutshell) 7. Through Her Eyes - 0 stars (leaves me irritated and it's not like I don't like peaceful songs, I LOVE the warmth of "Wait For Sleep", for example, but this one is everything "Wait For Sleep" isn't) 8. Home - 5 stars (woohooo!!!!! 9. The Dance of Eternity - 5 stars 10. One Last Time - 5 stars 11. The Spirit Carries On - 2 stars (solely for Petrucci's awesome solo 12. Finally Free - 5 stars Overall, I find the album is very inconsistent and badly paced, especially the first half. "SDoIT", while not flawless, is IMO much better
------------- "In war there is no time to teach or learn Zen. Carry a strong stick. Bash your attackers." - Zen Master Ikkyu Sojun |