No ones advocating, we are discussing!

hdfisch wrote: But just the topic of the thread alone is implying the suggestion to use drugs for certain type of music! And what is even more frightening that this one is the most popular thread. I think this fact doesn't cast a very good light on our site! Where are the moderators?

Well one of them, Maani, has posted in the thread itself! So he obviously doesn't agree with you!

Nobody forces you to use drugs. If you don't like the thread, don't look at it.

...

Although I do agree that such discussions are no way normal, knowing that children post here too.

Quite ridiculous responses I've to say, but ok I see this is obviously not the right place to say something against drugs!

Snowdog: I haven't read Maani's name anywhere on this thread as a poster!!!

nacho:Whether using or abusing, drugs ain't good in any way in my opinion!

Gentle Ronnie: As a collaborator I feel responsible to look at any thread whether I like it or not just to know what's going on!

BaldFriede: This is a quite stupid attitude, of course anything could be as well lethal if over-dosed, like distilled water can be toxic. So in your opinion even in case of heroin or similar "hard drugs" it just depends on the dose. And of course you could control this really perfectly?

I guess the posters here are stoned anyway!

hdfisch wrote: nacho:Whether using or abusing, drugs ain't good in any way in my opinion!

So I guess you never drink a coffee in the morning to help you wake up...

hdfisch wrote: Quite ridiculous responses I've to say, but ok I see this is obviously not the right place to say something against drugs! Snowdog: I haven't read Maani's name anywhere on this thread as a poster!!! nacho:Whether using or abusing, drugs ain't good in any way in my opinion! Gentle Ronnie: As a collaborator I feel responsible to look at any thread whether I like it or not just to know what's going on! BaldFriede: This is a quite stupid attitude, of course anything could be as well lethal if over-dosed, like distilled water can be toxic. So in your opinion even in case of heroin or similar "hard drugs" it just depends on the dose. And of course you could control this really perfectly? I guess the posters here are stoned anyway!

Hdfisch:

I respect what you're saying but your approach is rather ignorant. Maybe you should ask yourself, "what is a dangerous drug?" instead of relying on the church's/parents/government's definition. If the thread had been "What types of liquor do you drink when you listen to Prog", I don't think you would have thought twice about it.

But someone says the words "drugs" and all of a sudden, your buttons are pushed. There are gradations of drugs, from sugar to pot to liquor to crack and beyond. So for you to have this self-righteous attitude about all drugs is rather offensive when you don't know what you're talking about.

bluetailfly:

Okay I'm not an expert on drugs and probably so are most of the posters in this thread. Moreover I give a f*****g s**t what government and especially church are saying, it's just my own feeling of responsiveness. And in my opinion there isn't something like non-dangerous drugs, including nicotin and alcohol. Maybe Canabis (that's probably the one most people have in mind) is less dangerous than these two legal ones at least as long it's not being abused, but still I would not consider it as harmless. And lastly I found the question of the topic alone provoking. If it would have been something like: Which Prog music is fitting best with smoking weed? I'd have found it only funny, but saying generally "drugs" which can be anything up to heroin I don't find appropriate here, sorry! I don't like to be a preacher and I don't mind smoking a pipe or similar everynow and then but I would't go to the public and say "hey folks when you listen to xy music you should take this or that"! Certainly no one is doing that here directly but it is somehow implied in the topic!

Just my opinion!Peace

hdfisch wrote: bluetailfly: Okay I'm not an expert on drugs and probably so are most of the posters in this thread. Moreover I give a f*****g s**t what government and especially church are saying, it's just my own feeling of responsiveness. And in my opinion there isn't something like non-dangerous drugs, including nicotin and alcohol. Maybe Canabis (that's probably the one most people have in mind) is less dangerous than these two legal ones at least as long it's not being abused, but still I would not consider it as harmless. And lastly I found the question of the topic alone provoking. If it would have been something like: Which Prog music is fitting best with smoking weed? I'd have found it only funny, but saying generally "drugs" which can be anything up to heroin I don't find appropriate here, sorry! I don't like to be a preacher and I don't mind smoking a pipe or similar everynow and then but I would't go to the public and say "hey folks when you listen to xy music you should take this or that"! Certainly no one is doing that here directly but it is somehow implied in the topic! Just my opinion!Peace

Thanks for the clarification. My response at this point then is, why are you worried about it? Everyone here is a big boy or girl and I don't see anyone here trying to hurt anyone else.

hdfisch wrote: Quite ridiculous responses I've to say, but ok I see this is obviously not the right place to say something against drugs! Snowdog: I haven't read Maani's name anywhere on this thread as a poster!!! nacho:Whether using or abusing, drugs ain't good in any way in my opinion! Gentle Ronnie: As a collaborator I feel responsible to look at any thread whether I like it or not just to know what's going on! BaldFriede: This is a quite stupid attitude, of course anything could be as well lethal if over-dosed, like distilled water can be toxic. So in your opinion even in case of heroin or similar "hard drugs" it just depends on the dose. And of course you could control this really perfectly? I guess the posters here are stoned anyway!

Perhaps I'm mistaken then.I must be thinking of another thread!

WiguJimbo wrote: I agree with you hdfisch, knowing that there are children here (including me!) that might be open for such suggestions, this is not the appropriate place to discuss drugs or how magnificent they can be. I mostly try to ignore that thread.

This is completely out of topic, but you are the very first person I know that being almost 18 (in a few days, according to your profile) defines himself as a child...

I had done a lot of forbidden things at your age, but yes, I have to tell you that it's better for you to stay away from them...

hdfisch wrote: I just realized there is a thread were some members are advocating drug abuse.Should this not be removed?

Although I agree that the thread topic is provocative,I dont like the idea of any subject being taboo.Yes we have young people on the forum but there is far more counterbalance of opinion on the thread than these people would find out in "the real world."

The way I view the thread is that some people do advocate taking drugs,but most posters seem to be saying "be careful" which is good advice.A reasonable analogy is the one of adolescant sex,kids are going to have intercourse,lets make sure they take precautions.

Besides some of our more imaginative forum members are just playing the "pissing up the wall" game....

I don't do drugs at all.

Never have.

Right where's my crisps

So conclusion is either pro-DRUGS or pro-BUSH?????

Actually if it would come to these two alternatives, I wouldn't know which evil to choose. I'm really glad that there are some other options as well.

BTW I'm a convinced atheist and to be called a supporter of GW equals an insult for me!

Jim Garten wrote: Nice one, Tony; at last - a reasoned response to hfisch's perfectly understandable concerns (despite the fact he is apparently a Bush supporting church minister who works for the big bad government ). The reason we can discuss drugs on an open forum (and we must never lose sight of the fact this is an open forum, accessible to anyone with a PC - including very young kids) is down to the laws governing free speech, where everyone has a right to their say; therefore, hfisch's opinion is as valid as anyone else's, and whilst I may not agree with what he says, he does not deserve sl*gging off

hdfisch wrote: But just the topic of the thread alone is implying the suggestion to use drugs for certain type of music! And what is even more frightening that this one is the most popular thread. I think this fact doesn't cast a very good light on our site! Where are the moderators?

shut up it is just a discussion you prat.

hdfisch wrote: Many thanks Wigu for supporting.At least one more reasonable person and moreover in this young age. I think that is proofing that you are not a child at all, moreover you're probably more grown-up than many much older fellows here! WiguJimbo wrote: I agree with you hdfisch, knowing that there are children here (including me!) that might be open for such suggestions, this is not the appropriate place to discuss drugs or how magnificent they can be. I mostly try to ignore that thread.

I object to being called unreasonable, just for not sharing your opinion!

Dear all:

I was one of the first here to post an oppinion somehow contrary to that of hdfisch, although I think still on the constructive side. I wasn't too happy with his post saying that probably we were stoned (I haven't been stoned for a long time now), but some of the posts here are just making me take his point of view. So please, don't do any drugs if you don't know how to cope with them...

Otherwise, if you are posting in a "clean" state of mind, please look for a shrink, obviously you need it.

hdfisch wrote: Well that's YOUR opinion. If you're taking drugs what you obvously do according to your posts you have to reckon to be called unreasonable! Snow Dog wrote: hdfisch wrote: Many thanks Wigu for supporting.At least one more reasonable person and moreover in this young age. I think that is proofing that you are not a child at all, moreover you're probably more grown-up than many much older fellows here! WiguJimbo wrote: I agree with you hdfisch, knowing that there are children here (including me!) that might be open for such suggestions, this is not the appropriate place to discuss drugs or how magnificent they can be. I mostly try to ignore that thread. I object to being called unreasonable, just for not sharing your opinion!

I think your being completely illogical, unreasonable and possibly mad!

Thanks nacho, obviously you realised that your initial assessment of that thread being only about USING drugs and not ABUSING was not quite right. In fact I was quite shocked how many people are obviously not only consuming so called "soft drugs" as weed but really harder and very dangerous stuff. And I doubt that all of them are mentally mature enough to handle such harmful stuff.

We always have to be aware that there are as well very very young visitors at this site who are still to be iinfluenced very easily. That is mainly my concern why I was starting this thread here!!!

IMO there should not be applied double standards here. Drugs are as dangerous (or even more) as porn for young kids!!!!

spectral, I might exaggerate and over-react a bit, but guys like you just belttle such things. I don't agree with your point, it's a bit too naive. Finally reading through most of the posts in this thread I'm not quite sure whether everybody speaking about using drugs was really mentally mature enough (regardless of age) to be aware of all the consequences. On the other hand since I finally found enough time to go through all these posts in detail I was surprised in a positive way that in deed most of the posters were not supporting to take drugs. Some were admittedly only weed-consumers (that I don't mind by the way, since I did as well already) but the ones advocating stuff which goes beyond this where really in a minority. Maybe a reason for my over-reaction is the fact that I lost someone in my family just because of over-dosing of heroin. I really hope that no one of you guys come that far and I don't want to say by this that you're going necessarily into that direction.So like this I'd love to close this thread and not discuss anymore about this topic!

Go on and smoke your weed or spliff if you like, but don't exaggerate it and don't try something else!There isn't anything better than this one!

Prog,peace and love forever!

spectral wrote: hdfisch, you exaggerate big time!  if the kids are intelligent enough to find out about prog, then they are intelligent enough to know about the dangers of drugs.  you seriously don't expect people to read this forum and take things to heart, let alone using the opinions of people here to go out and do drugs - do you?

abyssyinfinity wrote: ...And notice I took only cannas 2-3 times for year, when I met a particular friend of mine, I hate cocaine & other drugs (Ecstasy and similar drugs are only for losers disco-ravers and similia..), so my only drug is                        PROG                        MUSIC

what would happen if you overdose on prog? 

can anyone give examples of people who have come close to death overdosing on yes or genesis?  I came close a few years back with Camel.  I battled for 2 weeks in a coma, finally realising that a song within a song was only a song and not actually a song within a song even though I thought it was a song which was within a song given that it's name is song within a song.

Snow Dog wrote: hdfisch wrote: Well that's YOUR opinion. If you're taking drugs what you obvously do according to your posts you have to reckon to be called unreasonable! Snow Dog wrote: hdfisch wrote: Many thanks Wigu for supporting.At least one more reasonable person and moreover in this young age. I think that is proofing that you are not a child at all, moreover you're probably more grown-up than many much older fellows here! WiguJimbo wrote: I agree with you hdfisch, knowing that there are children here (including me!) that might be open for such suggestions, this is not the appropriate place to discuss drugs or how magnificent they can be. I mostly try to ignore that thread. I object to being called unreasonable, just for not sharing your opinion! I think your being completely illogical, unreasonable and possibly mad!

Even though I wrote the above I can see your point about the thread, in that people were quite open and frank about taking hard drugs! This  is after all  private affair that concerns the individuals involved. How you can call me unreasonable for having the occasional joint though i just don't understand!

nacho wrote: So please, don't do any drugs if you don't know how to cope with them...

Every person has his limit, every sensible person knows it.

goose wrote: Every person has his limit, every sensible person knows it.

This is true, but without emphasizing neither opinnions against or towards drugs, I fear it's difficult to see where "the thin red line" is drawn until you have passed it. So be carewful what ever sh*t you dump to yourself.

Here in Finland people mostly do plain boozing. There's a lots of winos, and it's even socially respected to be a serious drinker. The amount of vodka you can drink and the number of persons you kill when going to restaurant are the subjects that make a REAL MAN. 

Our goverment has a monopoly of liquor sales, and the taxes of alcohol we're about 70% of the price. Last year the goverment had to decrease their prices, as the restrictions of importing alcohol to your own use from abroad were removed. Now all alcohol hazards are growing, as those people who send all their available money to drinking can get about two times more booze as they used to. Violent incidents, childrens custody charges, sickleaves from jobs, drunk-driving accidents and alcohol based sicknesses, they all have rised along with the countionously growing consuption of alcohol. So at least IMHO there are lot more important issues to get hysterical about than "drugs", whatever one even want's to comprehend with that term.

Eetu Pellonpää wrote: goose wrote: Every person has his limit, every sensible person knows it. This is true, but without emphasizing neither opinnions against or towards drugs, I fear it's difficult to see where "the thin red line" is drawn until you have passed it. So be carewful what ever sh*t you dump to yourself.

That's definitely a valid point - but I wasn't talking exclusively about a physical limit - more about how much/what an individual feels comfortable with taking - I'm sure some people are happy to die a few years younger if they can drink and smoke all their lives, and that's their own choice - I'm too scared of death to think like that, and so it's nearly always well over six or eight weeks between taking any drugs other than alcohol - perhaps not last week but I was on holiday in the Netherlands . I think I'd definitely better not live there  and it reinforces my anti-decriminalisation stance no end.

oliverstoned wrote: you admit yourself you're a polytoxicoman and you blame people to make allusions to weed...funny I think the term "drugs" is not good cause it suppose addiction, which is not the case of all substances evoked under this term, lile LSD for example, which is not addictive at all. I prefer the term "power plant", or "lucidogen" (instead of hallucinogen).

LSD is addictive, heh.

Anyway, I, myself, have taken an anti drug stance since I got clean, which was a terrible process, but I don't think discussions of the matter should be forbidden. It's actually an important life experience in my opinion. Granted it would be nice if everyone was smart enough to stay away from them, but most people aren't. I like to think that people will learn from their mistakes however, and walk away more knowledgeable from it, with more life experience, and maybe, just maybe, they'll walk away less naive from that, I know I did. I don't like the idea of drugs enhancing music, to me the music is great the way it is, and I don't need a substance to enhance my listening experience. On the other hand, however, I don't like the idea of a subject being taboo on a forum with a reasonably intelligent populus, as long as the substances are talked about in a intelligent way, and not advertized or advocated.

That's my two cents on the subject.

hdfisch, first of all, you rule!

at last an intelligent  prog fan who condemn drugs!

you know, we are surrounded by people who just want rights, rights and rights, and do not think about responsabilities and consequences: i call them average people. we are surrounded by "ostie de ti-culs" who think they know everything, who thing they can defy the law, and most of all who think they have rights for every reason. these days, PA has been infested by such persons, so that it just becomes unbearable! some people here compare you to Bush; don't worry: some people here compare my views to the Third Reich politics! As long as you notice that my objective is not to kill or harm  people, you understand that their comparisons are more than ridiculous. Only intelligent people understand the benefits of control, to not say KControl!

what ordinary people do not understand is that with only rights, society lies in a total chaos; however, with an appropriate amount of control, society becomes better organized, more efficient and better sensibilized to common goals. overdose of rights are for parasite people living on the social welfare who think other people than themselves are responsible of their status. I hate P.E.T. Trudeau' human rights chart, because he contributed this way to put some chaos in Canada!

greenback wrote: hdfisch, first of all, you rule! at last an intelligent  prog fan who condemn drugs! you know, we are surrounded by people who just want rights, rights and rights, and do not think about responsabilities and consequences: i call them average people. we are surrounded by "ostie de ti-culs" who think they know everything, who thing they can defy the law, and most of all who think they have rights for every reason. these days, PA has been infested by such persons, so that it just becomes unbearable! some people here compare you to Bush; don't worry: some people here compare my views to the Third Reich politics! As long as you notice that my objective is not to kill or harm  people, you understand that their comparisons are more than ridiculous. Only intelligent people understand the benefits of control, to not say KControl! what ordinary people do not understand is that with only rights, society lies in a total chaos; however, with an appropriate amount of control, society becomes better organized, more efficient and better sensibilized to common goals. overdose of rights are for parasite people living on the social welfare who think other people than themselves are responsible of their status. I hate P.E.T. Trudeau' human rights chart, because he contributed this way to put some chaos in Canada!

WTF are you talking about?!