Genesis vs. Death
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77531
Printed Date: November 26 2024 at 11:40
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Topic: Genesis vs. Death
Posted By: Gandalff
Subject: Genesis vs. Death
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:38
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Well,
it seems that the flood of nonsensical, weird or quite ridiculous "Band vs. Band" polls is really neverending. Why not to cooperate on creating them, this once about Biblical theme?  ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:40
| Death is way better than Anderson's awful band. Starless isn't even a good piece of music. |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:45
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Genesis never wrote anything even half as good as "Crystal Mountain". Death every time. ------------- 
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Posted By: VanVanVan
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:46
 ------------- "The meaning of life is to give life meaning."-Arjen Lucassen |
Triceratopsoil wrote:Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:48
| Genesis at their best would be hard to beat, but they were very rarely at their best. Death on the other hand only got better with age. |
Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:50
Chuck died too young  -------------  
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 15:55
------------- 
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Posted By: NecronCommander
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:00
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This is off topic, but that Destroy Erase Improve image in your signature is very cool, Zargus. -------------
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:01
 ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:19
That joke wouldn't be half funny even if Genesis had a song called Crystal Fountain.
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:20
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Well Genesis wrote White Mountain, which is pretty good, and yes my pictures are very kewl. -------------
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:27
Nevermind, Crystal one is though better, they say! ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 16:39
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Imagine Peter Gabriel's intro speech for that one:
 "Let us now travel to the icy peaks of a mountain built upon deception and greed. A place where evil takes it form and commandments are reborn. The Crystal. A bit faster Phillip. No, faster Phil. Where's Gene Hoglan when you need him?" -------------
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Posted By: kawkaw123
Date Posted: April 14 2011 at 17:47
| I always vote for Genesis in these things and I'm not going to stop now |
Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:00
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Genesis
------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump...... |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:02
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Is Death the end of life? Or does it have another meaning I'm not aware of? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:02
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Death! But to say the truth I would like a combination of the two bands. That's why Opeth is my favorite band.
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:22
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Genesis = beginning, birth Renaissance = re-birth, new-beginningExodus = procession, departiure
Amageddon = last battle on the fields of Mageddio -------------  
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Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 07:51
well you're the one with the monolith in your sig, so........  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:21
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Erm...Genesis ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:24
| Who the Hell is Death? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 10:35
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Genesis is a leading prog act without a trace of metal, Death a leading death metal band with no prog.  Why not have us choose between a BMW and a Phillips television set instead? I'd choose Opeth anyway. |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 13:54
 ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 13:56
 ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 14:57
the realms of Hell and the realm of Death are also to completly different, and not really related, they comunicates, but they are bad at communicate and hostilaty have been reported among its residents, the agents of Death are not willingly entering the halls of Hell, nor do the spys of Hell willingly traspassing the border to Death. the near sight of it would be unbearable...
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 16:04
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Almost half the voters would prefer death than having to listen to Genesis? That's a bit extreme. But I can sympathize with them. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Marlon
Date Posted: June 12 2011 at 19:35
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Death all the way!!
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Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 14:26
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dreadful poll, what's next - Beatles vs Obituary? |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 17:06
this is my most important post this milenium -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 17:10
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Neither is my favorite band.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 18:41
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I'm going on innovation here, and although Genesis brought something new to the prog rock table, they didn't push an entire genre of music into another direction in the same way Death did. Death gets my vote And plus I only enjoy about two albums from Genesis, and about 5 Death albums
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 18:51
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Genesis. Though Death is good.
Justin Bieber vs Cannibal Corpse seems like a good next poll... ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:10
I'm asking the same question.  Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:11
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The first official death metal band!
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com |
Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:17
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Death is so much more awesome. ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 14 2011 at 19:40
I guess it's just contempt for metal. -------------
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Posted By: JeanFrame
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 09:49
| Genesis |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 17:17
Of course I searched Theo...What I mean is who are they to be compared with Genesis.  Iván -------------
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Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 18:37
Death is one of the godfathers of extreme metal, death metal, extreme progressive metal and progressive death metal and Chuck Shuldiner invented many things which are still in use today in the heavy metal scene. Genesis is an unsuccessful English band with some of the least united group of friends I have ever seen. I do recognize that Trespass and Nursery Crime are reasonably good albums, though being the only ones they were able to release with some actual quality throughout the whole record and not in some individual songs alone. -------------   
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Posted By: BlindGuard
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 18:44
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I love Death (hehe) but i vote for Genesis only because of 'The Lamb'. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Shelef/?chartstyle=lastfmplain" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 18:48
Caio  Death is more than just a death metal band, not one of the millions that all sound alike and try to be uber br00tal. They more or less made the sound. Their later stuff also moved into more technical territory, and were a huge influence on tech metal. They are true innovators in metal and Chuck was a great songwriter. Even their old stuff had some groove and real movement to it, not just bashing their instruments away. The comments have been pretty civil actually, I expected them all to be "WHAT DEATH HAS SO MANY VOTES WHAT THE HELL?" Anyway, some Genesis is pretty good but Death has made much more good material and had way more innovation and impact on its genre than Genesis did for its. |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:11
| Genesis would've had Death beaten in my heart if they'd had just one more album as consistent as Selling England. As it stands, the Death material beginning with Human and ending with my favorite death metal album of all time, Sounds of Perseverance, swiftly defeats anything by Genesis for me. |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:14
Indeed. He improved on every released record, unlike some english band who actually got worse with every passing record. Just for the record (lol, Marillion quote), I don't hate Genesis. -------------
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:22
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All instruments aside- I say Death wins in an all out fight. Death wins.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:31
1.- Unsuccessful: From a Prog perspective? I believe not: In Progarchives, Genesis has3 of their 5 Gabriel era albums in the top 15 (2 in the top 5) The Lamb in place 63, and A Trick of the Tail in place 66..........Death has 1 album in place 83 Death first album is in place 83 after The Lamb which is 20 places before. - Death studio albums have an average of 76 ratings and reviews - Genesis Prog studio albums have an average of 865 ratuings and reviews by album. - From Genesis to the Revelation and least rated (Not even Prog) has 350 ratings - Symbolic, the most popular and rated album of Death has 166 ratings and reviews. This is not unpopular, they passed the test of time. 2.- Least united group of friends? Maybe, but not less than: 1.- Waters & Gilmour and still made of Pink Floyd the most popular and successful band ever 2.- Squire vs Bruford....Squire vs Anderson (After 40 years they split for commercial reasons), Wakeman leving at least 5 times because differences.. 3.- ELP, the three guys can't be less united
4.- Dennis de Young vs Tommy Shaw + Chuck Panozzo + James Young; the only left founders took side with Shaw instead of their 40 years friend and co-founder de Young. 5.- And many more But who cares, this is a musical site, we don't care if they are friends or enemies as long as they make great music.. Genesis, like it or not are icons for 90% of Prog listeners and 100% know about them, Death are known by a small percentage, I guess not more than 20% if even. Iván -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:47
I think Caio had general success in mind, not success only between proggers.
Yes but once you change the system of references to the overall music scene, prog bands don't come close to metal bands in term of success. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:54
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Harmonium....This is a Prog site. And even, in an overall music system Genesis is better known because the Collins era, which I don't care for. Remember, Genesis is the 18th band that sold more albums in history, while Death is not in the list Genesis is in the R&R Hall of fame......I guess Death is not. (Not that I care too much, but if the question is about success...well.... So even if we go to non Prog scenarios, Genesis is anything but unsuccessful Iván
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 19:55
So we shouldn't be allowed to discuss things from a general perspective, only a prog perspective? |
Posted By: Formentera Lady
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:05
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This reminds me of the Yes vs. Protest The Hero thread, where I made my experiences. Listened to one Death song. Will never again. Thank you. (BTW, 'death' is not a biblical theme, not more than 'life'.) ------------- http://theprogressiveweb.blogspot.de" rel="nofollow - Visit me in Second Life to talk about music. |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:06
I don't hate Genesis either. Don't even dislike em I enjoy a few albums, but yeah which do I prefer? Death has made nothing but gold really, (silver at worst) and they did improve and change a bit every album. Shame that most here will think "lol death metal silly kids" I get not liking it, but Chuck was a great musical mind, and so many will never realize Oh and yeah Genesis is good but far less consistent and really...they were another prog rock band. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:09
Also made the overall comparison and Genesis takes a bigger distance. Iván -------------
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:27
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Now Iván, let me make things clear for you. Death created a whole new genre, which is death metal. You got to credit them whether you like the music or not. I for one don't even give a rat's arse about Death's albums but I respect them a lot. Now, Genesis was a symph prog group (  because that genre is pretty much dead nowadays) that released 3-4 nice albums and then SOLD OUT (double for lack of teh progginess in selling out).Needless to say, I'd take a completely innovative band over another that sold their music by the pound.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:38
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You Polo, but not the vast majority of Prog listeners. I consider from Foxtrot to The Lamb, all 5 stars albums with ATOTT and W&W very close, much more than just nice albums, I wouldn't accept a Death album for free. It's obvious you don't like Symphonic, and it's OK with me, I consider Death Metal just noise...A matter of of opinions. But taking merits from the most popular Prog band in any Prog site I know is unfair Iván. -------------
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:44
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words words words blah blah opinions trolling look....look at me. i'm special. laugh at my jokes blah derp blah blah it's f**king nothing ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 20:44
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Ivan, you must be kidding? There is no way you said that. I'm sorry but Polo made it perfectly clear liking death metal has nothing to do with it. He said he doesn't care about it at all but respects the band for their innovation. Which is true, even if you think its noise Death did create a genre that has spawned thousands and thousands of bands, and they also influenced the tech metal genre which grew to become very progressive and jazz influenced. You may not like it all and that's fine but you seem to disregard their impact on music because you think it's noise. Oh and missed the point completely.... |
Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:01
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Death's impact on music, and correct me if I am wrong, is only metal whereas Genesis impact stretched beyond progressive rock when they entered pop. Genesis where a huge pop band and helped define pop music that we know and love. Genesis are more influential when considering music as a whole since they had a impact on various genre's. Not that I mean to disrespect Death, however. They were a highly innovative band, even if I don't like death metal. To get back to the original topic, I definitely prefer Genesis, despite their pop-oriented albums.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:02
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I have to be honest, and is my truth as I always say it. I respect tastes, but this doesn't mean I don't believe Death Metal is noise, so I can't feel any respect for a band that makes noise, that's why you don't find reviews by me about bands like Death. I don't say it's good or bad, that's subjective, I simply believe that many sub.genres of Metal are the same thing FOR ME. I love Iron Maiden, Symphony X, Yngwee Malmsteen, AC/DC and pain of Salvation, but I simply don't care enough to feel respect for most of the rest. What's wrong with that? This is what I feel. Some people love Rap, there must be some innovative and some Rap performers who created styles, but I don't feel any respect for any of them.
People is too sensitive lately. Iván.
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:09
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No. No. You keep talking about taste. You've yet to give the band any respect. I don't give a frogs piss about taste, we all have our own and are entitled to it. You just seemed to disregard what Death did for metal, a huge genre. To be fair you still are, you keep going on about taste...what some of us were trying to say is the band had a huge influence on metal. Respect them for that is all, as a fan of music. There is nothing wrong with it all Ivan, but that is useless to the discussion, your personal taste has nothing to do with it. Sensitive? Erm, you are clearly not familiar with my posting style are you? How influential was Genesis on prog rock? They were big yeah but what did they do unique or innovative? Before people get into a fan storm...I like their music a lot. Just don't see them as having much real impact on prog rock, other than the fact they were a big name. |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:17
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Genesis' discernible influence extends pretty much only to Neo-Prog, which does suck regardless of taste. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:18
No I don't have to give them any respect, I don't find any difference between Death or Thrash or many other Metal sub-genres (Most likely my ignorance), so why should I respect what they did? BTW: Most Neo Prog is directly influenced by Genesis, and a good percentage of good Symphonic bands claim they are their main influence. But even if they weren't that influential, I would still respect the music they did, as I respect Symphony X but not Dream Theater (As a band, because I respect their members individually) despite being DT ,much more influential. Iván
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:19
| Yeah real great genre they influenced too...why even bother when you can just listen to Genesis? |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:21
Why should I care for Death if each and every Death Metal band sound exact to my ears? Iván -------------
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:23
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Every Genesis fan sounds exactly the same to me. Want some cheese with that whine? -------------
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Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:23
erm because they did influence an entire genre of music. That's what I've been saying, sorry if I sound harsh but you don't seem to be reading what I'm saying. I was talking about respecting them for what they did because their influence was huge. Unless you just don't care because you don't like it. I honestly don't like "In the Court of the Crimson King" that much, it's boring. However, I respect it for its influence as it pretty much created prog rock as we know and all it's influence there. So is it clear? I was asking to respect them for the influence even if you don't like the result...if you can't do that then sorry but that's extremely closed minded. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:25
Do you want to take it to a personal level? I never said a word about Metal fans. Iván -------------
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Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:25
No, but you said every DM song was the same. Sounds like an insult to the genre to me. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:27
Please understand me:
As simple as that Iván -------------
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Posted By: Garden of Dreams
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:29
Genesis were actually very influential on prog rock. Just some bands: Big Big Train, The Flower Kings, IQ, Karmakanic, Marillion, Neal Morse, Phideaux, Rush, Simon Says, Spock's Beard, Transatlantic. A lot of those bands play symphonic prog but they are some of the most popular current prog bands.
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:29
| LOL GENESIS IS SO BAD |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:32
Well OK, simple as this then: I think you are a very close minded person, musically at least. Sad that you can't even respect a band for its influence on a wide swath of music just because you don't like it. |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:33
| Also sad that you use "without Genesis there would be no Marillion" as an argument, as if that would be a bad thing. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:35
ITT: revelations abound. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:36
ITT: Stonie is not really that cool edgy guy inb4 come at me bro u mad u jelly w/e other meme you'll use to hide behind |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:38
now Ivan is getting really angry. Ok here goes my neutral two cents: 1. Genesis is a big influential Symphonic Prog band, but they did not create a genre 2. Death is a big influential Death Metal band, a genre they themselves created Both are amazing. HOWEVER, Death has a slight upper hand BECAUSE they CREATED a GENRE. Whether you like them or not, you must at least accept the fact that they were quite the creative group. Of course that goes without saying that Genesis was creative as well, crafting some of the best music of the 70s, HOWEVER, they went with the flow, and although they did progress the sound of symphonic prog, they did not create it. The were a group of some of the best songwriters ever, but they wrote in it's most raw form the same stuff that many other bands in their era made. Death, on the other hand, made an album and then an explosion of bands occur ed trying to be them because they were so mind-blowingly creative. Whether what they were copying was noise or not is arbitrary because they CREATED a massive subgenre of metal. Yea. ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:46
I have gathered you are irritated, and if you wish to avenge this injustice then I invite you to advance and engage me in fisticuffs. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:55
| ITT: LOL NEOPROG FANS |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 21:59
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Please go on. I've never heard this before.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:04
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Lets go point by point: 1.- Close Minded:
Not close minded, I just have a different understanding of music than you, that's all, there are hundreds of genres some I like, others not, I don't consider Death Metal one of them, that's my opinion. Taste has nothing to do, I don't like Gentle Giant neither VDGG but I respect them because IN MY OPINION they make coherent, and original music with virtuoso musicians and in the case of the second with outstanding lyrics Now this is closed minded:
You are making derogatory comments about the quality of Neo Prog, I clearly said that I don't say if Death Metal is good or bad because taste is subjective 2.- About Marillion.
I never mentioned Marillion, I believe that with or without Genesis Marillion would had existed, the personality of Fish and talent of all the members couldn't be stopped[QUOTE=Polo] [QUOTE=Ivan_Melgar_M] , probably they would sound different, (because there's a Genesis influence), but they would had still existed. My browser is giving problems, so I follow in the next post. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:06
I sad what I THINK about Death Metal, I also said I don't know if it's bad or good, I don't dare to do that, because taste is personal. I took good care to say I have respect for Metal listeners But you are making personal attacks, that's different Iván
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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:06
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(Ivan. Hey buddy, it's Andy. Let me give you a hint. Give up, you'll just tire yourself out with these guys. They're relentless). ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:22
| Just....wow. |
Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:22
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ikr haha ------------- http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:43
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It kinda depresses me. Is English Ivan's native language? I never thought I'd do this, but my feelings drag me over to Ivan's side. He never said Death metal sucked - just that he didn't like it or respect it. Why does it matter he respect Death? I don't respect any musicians or bands. I love Death, and I love many musicians/bands, but I can't think of any I'd respect. They're all humans to me, who probably cheat on their wives or dream about it, or who'd steal the candy from a laughing baby's mouth. Not that NOT doing these things would garner my respect. I'll respect Robert Fripp when he shows up to take me out for a coffee when I'm feeling f**king awful about my day. As soon as Dave Mustaine sends me a feel better card, writing and coloring it himself (with either Roseart or Crayola, I'm not a hater), and personally shows care for me, I'll respect the sh*t out of him. I don't disrespect Death or Genesis, but I don't respect them, either. Sometimes I think many PA members forget that a great deal of our membership either cannot speak English or cannot speak it as fluently as their native language, or just in general, even on level linguistic ground, text conversations can lack very much that is essential to proper mutual understanding. At the end of the day, I don't ethically or morally care if you all want to gang up and ad hominem Ivan into oblivion - go right ahead. But I don't recall him saying that death metal or Death were universally/intrinsically/scientifically inferior to symphonic prog or Genesis. That I don't recall at all. Obviously he likes one band more than the other. If nobody did, why would this poll even have been created? Gosh I'm depressed tonight.
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 22:57
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You all have to know and understand Ivan. He's not a metal fan, he's quite conservative, he probably has never heard more than two or three death metal bands for more than two or three minutes to be able to tell the difference. He will never do it. For anyone with ears, Death (the band) sounds quite different from, say, Morbid Angel, Carcass, Obituary, Benediction, etc. But it's easier and safer to say they all sound the same. Now, in the "noise" part, well, there's real art music that also contains noise (REAL noise) so that attack is not really too effective. Ivan's contempt for most (not all) metal is understandable and the reason why he threw the snart comment that I replied originally. Of course, in the metal world, fans would ask "Who the hell is Genesis?" This is a prog forum and many prog fans are really from a distant era...
Now it's not the place to disrespect Genesis either (like Caio almost did, ignoring what they are). Genesis, in my view, is by far the better band (they are my favorite band in all rock anyway, on par with DT) but Death was an amazing group that made revolutionary metal music. To the Caesar what belongs to the Caesar. And really, don't bring popularity into this. The only place where Death will win is in a metal environment. In the big scheme of things, Genesis was 100000 times more popular. Which, my love of Genesis notwithstanding, doesn't really mean a thing. -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 15 2011 at 23:50
That's not truth Theo, Guigo knows this because he's also in a Spanish email Prog group with me, all of the guys (except Guigo because he lives in Brazil and a couple of Colombian guys) join very frequently to listen music and watch videos. 8 out of 10 of this guys like Metal as much as they like Prog, so we reached an agreement to listen as much Metal as Prog, we've seen Children of Bodom, Crimson Death, Disillusion, Massacre, Morbid Angel, etc videos...Sometimes for hours, because we join at least twice a month (In the past months I been too busy but until summer we did it constantly), but still, no matter how hard I try (because they are my friends and I want to enjoy the music sessions), I can't see great difference between this bands.
No Theo, it's easier and safer to keep quiet and don't say what you think, but that's not my style.
Of course there are, I constantly said that King Crimson´s Thrak is noise for me and that Gentle Giant is complexity for the sake of complexity, and I'm not from a distant era, I started to listen Prog when I was 12 in the late 70's.
This is not the place to disrespect any band, you won't listen me saying "X band is crap" or "All the Metal listeners are idiots" , but I can say "I don't like X band" or even say "X and Y bands sound almost exactly the same". Many people say Triumvirat are cheap clones of ELP, IMO they are absolutely different, but that's my opinion, I'm able to find that difference, but I would never insult anybody for believing they are exact.
That was my point when somebody said that Genesis was an unsuccessful band. Iván -------------
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 09:35
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Good thread. It has my own seal of approval. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 09:53
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Protest the Hero.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 09:55
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I prefer being 'born' everyday over being 'dead' everyday..... -------------   
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 12:25
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 13:51
Hey now... Why bring PTH into this? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: CCVP
Date Posted: June 16 2011 at 17:43
Quite so, I have been a bit too harsh on them, specially concerning that this is a progressive ROCK site, but I hardly believe putting my point more politely would change its substance. Anyway, I'm impressed it spawned such an interesting conversation. (and I'm being 100% honest here) -------------
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 01:25
| I see some stupid replies to this poll, some dudes doesn't know a crap about prog music. even I like and I'm big fan of both bands, I still prefer Genesis, what they release between 1970-1980 is essential |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 01:34
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Death aren't a death metal band. Chuck himself denied taking credit for the death metal genre, even though he's obviously one of the biggest influences (the genre being named after his band and all). While Death use a lot of metal tropes and aesthetics, I feel like they have a lot more in common with Jazz. Death are a jazz band. "Individual Thought Patterns" is a jazz album. And in that regard, they really have very little in common with Genesis, who have virtually nothing to do with jazz. "Death vs. Hatfield & The North" would make for a better poll. (And now I can't unhear Chuck singing "Share It" in my head)
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Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 01:38
most of us post/enjoy "stupid" posts.  Give me one thread where someone is NOT off topic or silly..... Chill out bro. ------------- |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 02:54
I know, these two bands are just like apples and oranges to compare, thus I´m surprised by such many "fervent" replies for this topic. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 05:55
   no comment |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 13:33
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Well, this poll inspired me to investigate Death, anyway. edit: this is not a suicide note ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 14:21
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 14:27
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Death? [does a quick Wikipedia seach] Ah.... it is a band! ... Genesis. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: June 17 2011 at 14:29
Genesis is more my taste. I'm selling my last few Death CD's now... 
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