Nursery Cryme VS Godbluff
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Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 16:14
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Topic: Nursery Cryme VS Godbluff
Posted By: Varon
Subject: Nursery Cryme VS Godbluff
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:27
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I prefer GODBLUFF. What about you?))))))))) ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Replies:
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:28
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Hi,
Nothing against Nursery Cryme, but it's just a rock song compared to Peter Hammill! Sorry Genesis ... not enough depth and sometimes too many words saying not much! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Phideaux
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:34
| This is just wrong! They are both totally perfect. They have so much depth and the perfect amount of words saying quite a lot. Great albums and two bands really firing on all cylinders! |
Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:36
That's why I thought it would be interesting to see the results  ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Phideaux wrote:Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:38
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Godbluff by miles and miles. And I love Nursery Cryme. But Godbluff is a top 5 album for me. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:42
| Definitely and unquestionably Godbluff. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:50
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Nursery Cryme, an album that I at first listens thought was weak and overrated, plus the muddy production ruined the good moments.
Now I think it's incredible and as a whole it works greatly, the flow with that production is simply unique. Each song is really good, although obviously different.
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 16:50
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Nursery Cryme for me. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 17:03
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Nursery cryme!
------------- Sonorous Meal show every Sunday at 20:00 (greek time) on http://www.justincaseradio.com |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 17:26
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Godbluff. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 17:36
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Godbluff is a perfect album, and it deserves its high rating. Nursery cryme is not a perfect album genesis at that time hadent perfected thire songwritng skills, but its very good, but i yust feel its lacking in many things. personaly i feel it whuld have been more fair to compere Godbluff and SEBTP, and Nursery Cryme and the least we can do or H to he. Since they are more similar in production and sound and not yet perfect songwritng. Anyway my vote ofc goes to Godbluff one of my favorit prog albums. ------------- 
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:04
| I still can't get into Van der Graaf, sorry. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:27
I agree with the bolded, although I still prefer Nursery Cryme over Godbluff, the latter is undoubtedly the more mature record.
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Posted By: m2thek
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:28
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Godbluff has some wonderful vocals.
Nursery Cryme has some wonderful vocals as well as wonderful music
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Posted By: kawkaw123
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:42
| I LOVE GENESIS |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:46
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If it was only for Musical Box, Nursery Cryme would still be better, but if we add Fountain of Salmacis, Giant Hogweed and Harold the Barrell, there's no competition. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: silcir
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:49
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for me its easy. GODBLUFF, my favorite VDGG album and one of my all time favorites, also one of my first prog albums along with GG's octopus and JT's bursting out. Nursery cryme is great anyway.but godbluff tops any prog album for me, excluding the thickness of those bricks, |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:53
 -------------
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 18:57
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Nursery Crime, without question. The problem with VDGG is that they make great musical compositions, but unfortunately there is all that pretentious caterwauling that obliterates the music. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 19:02
| BTW, thanks poll-creator! You made me want to listen to VdGG, I haven't done that in a long while. (Still Life on) |
Posted By: TheLionOfPrague
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 20:23
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GODBLUFF. I prefer Genesis over VDGG, but Godbluff is their best album (and Pawn Hearts), while Nursery is not between my favorite Genesis albums (although I like it, I prefer SEBTP, Foxtrot, ATTOTT, etc,) ------------- I shook my head and smiled a whisper knowing all about the place |
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 22:16
Me either--I wish someone could explain their appeal--to me they very often sound like what a comedy movie would put in a soundtrack if a scene called for prog to be played in the background---perhaps performed by Jack Black.
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Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 22:19
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Posted By: SayYes
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 22:30
| Nursery Cryme! |
Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 22:42
Nursery Cryme, because Godbluff shamelessly paraphrases my nickname.
Seriously, because I like Gabriel´s Genesis really more than often over-combined Generators. ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: The Monodrone
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 22:42
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Godbluff, no doubt. -------------  
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Posted By: Gandalff
Date Posted: March 29 2011 at 23:00
Incidentally - I noticed that Genesis is currently included in 7 topics from 15 on first page, i.e. 46%. Isn´t it normal? ------------- A Elbereth Gilthoniel silivren penna míriel o menel aglar elenath! Na-chaered palan-díriel o galadhremmin ennorath, Fanuilos, le linnathon nef aear, sí nef aearon! |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 02:34
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Both 5 star albums. Godbluff is - together with Still Life - my favourite VdGG album. But I prefer Nursery Cryme a little. ------------- 
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 02:41
| Nursery Cryme, but Godbluff has no weak spots either in terms of composition . |
Posted By: palinurus
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 04:20
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Uff! Magical songs on Nursery Crime with Genesis line up. But Godbluff is the return of a band without doubts!
Godbluff 10,5! Nursey 10.
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 04:44
| Godbluff, mainly because I don't like The Giant Hogweed or The Fountain of Salmacis very much. |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 06:34
| Nursery Cryme for me too. Have tried hard to get into VdGG, but they are not a favorite. So vote Genesis. A good album, but not their best. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 07:53
| Nursery Cryme! |
Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 08:02
------------- "I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 08:35
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Godbluff is the only VdGG album I have and it's got some great moments.
But Genesis is prog for me, and Nursery Cryme is that little gem that took me awhile and now is perhaps my favorite. Ant's writing with Steve's playing. Hungry kids, really superb. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 08:46
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Nursery Cryme for me. Brim full of classics. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ThinLizzy
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 08:58
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I prefer VDGG to Genesis. ------------- And then one day you find Ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run You missed the starting gun |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:01
Every opinion is worthwhile, but it's interesting that you can make that comment while using Tales From Topographic Oceans as your avatar... the very album that is held up as an example of everything that's wrong with prog by its detractors. The band that wore capes, had twenty banks of keyboards, and a giant opening/closing clam on stage (not that I don't love the live video of Ritual) I think would be a far better fit for a comedy film taking a pot shot at prog! (And by the way, I like a lot of Yes!!!)
Nursery Cryme is a band finding its feet after a major lineup change (not even Stratton Smith liked the album); the group was far more confident on Foxtrot and what came after.
Godbluff is brimming with power and confidence. It's the pinnacle of what VdGG was about at that stage and, for what they were, it's perfection.
If you hate VdGG, then you couldn't vote for them. But respective of what each album was for the bands and their followers, it's no contest. Godbluff all the way. ------------- jc |
Posted By: digdug
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:02
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Nursery Cryme easily for me ------------- Prog On! |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:08
He said that their songs could fit a sountrack, for a comedy that needed prog being played in background. I dont know how the appearance of either band matters. Sounds like hes calling them generic/predictable.
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:19
Right. And I'm saying that, given all the vitriol that critical opinion has heaped upon Tales..., that album has done waaaay more to damage the reputation of prog than anything VdGG has (in fact, VdGG are critics' darlings... the one prog band it's "cool" to like according to hipper-than-thou critics and musicians). There are plenty of "golden moments" that you could insert from Tales into an anti-prog comedy (but there are also a few good parts here and there, and Ritual overall is a good tune, as is at least half of The Revealing Science of God). And it didn't sound to me like he was calling VdGG generic/predictable... that would be just bland. It sounds like he was calling them terrible, which (to me, bizarrely enough) is perferable to bland. ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:23
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I was wrong about VdGG being the one band it's okay to like if you're a 'hip' music dude. Crimson was also cool. (Not that any of that should matter, but that is the way it played out for a long time). Those two bands, especially VdGG, had punk cred at a time when punk had massive cred. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:58
You are right of course but as you see even in that case ( the best VdGG album and third Genesis album according to PA) Genesis wins. SEBTP or FOXTROT would destroy any VdGG album without competition unfortunately. I don't like the word "uderrarated" but IMO VdGG are veryvery underrated)))))) ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 11:59
I don't think they are. They have huge support here. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 12:04
But didn't Pawn Hearts beat The Lamb in a poll here recently?
I don't think any band here is better than another, it's all down to taste obviously. And while I've been having a go at Tales, I do like a lot of Yes... and I can certainly see where people would hate VdGG and that some of the more over-the-top bits [gloriously over-the-top to me!] would make others run for the exits... and even end up in a comedy movie! But the most extreme parts of any prog band could end up in a comedy movie. Take Magma for instance... their whole output could, and yet I love them way more than Yes or Genesis (they're second only to VdGG for me... well, maybe Beefheart is up there as well... Can, also) ------------- jc |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 15:25
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I'm a huge fan of both bands,both are in my top 10. If it had been "H To He Who..." or "Still Life" or "Pawn Hearts" i would have taken VDGG in this poll but... "Godbluff" while a 4 star album(in my opinion) it has never caught on with me as much as "Nursey Cryme" has.
I don't think i voted in the "Pawn Hearts" versus "The Lamb..." poll because i couldn't decide. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 15:30
If I may make a suggestion ...
You don't "get into" VdGG or Peter Hammill.
Your perception of what music is, and your appreciation of the music, changes when you listen to poets like Peter, or Roy Harper ... because for them it is not the music dictating the lyrics (a la top ten and rock'n'roll and most prog), but the other way around ... the instruments are there to augment the sentence or the wording.
It is very difficult at times, and I remember when I first heard "Silent Voice, Empty Stage" and I knew right away ... this is not radio, this is not "hit", this is not pulp music, this is not ... anything that you or I would expect.
Basically, it is no different than, let's say ... a Picasso ... you just appreciate the expression and worry less about the fact that ... not many are going to appreciate it ... until way later, when your ear and your taste changes some and one day ... you go ... wow ... that's really cool ...
Genesis, is much easier to listen to ... wayyyyyyy more conventional and accessible ... so more folks appreciating that is not unusual ... but some folks don't think that Peter Hammill screaming, is considered singing, and at that point the comparison goes down the tubes.
I like Genesis, of course, and have the albums (I stop at Trick of the Tail!), but I can tell you that I have over 50 PH and VdGG albums ... the uniqueness and the expression ... and the ability to do it so much, for so long, and so prolific ... that sometimes it's hard to not think that Genesis, is ... just a rock band ... specially after Peter Gabriel left! And I'm not sure any of us can say that about Hammill or VdGG more often than not. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 16:06
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VdGG and Genesis (with PG) both leaned hard on theater, VdGG much more than perhaps any band I know of. I HATED Hammill's voice when I first came here and saw all the praised and tried to get into VdGG. But as an actor reciting a drama rather than a singer (though his technique is actually quite good) I was able to appreciate it. I like Godbluff a fair bit.
But classic era Genesis was a band with monsters in every seat, each contributing something different. Nursery Cryme sees them all both pushing themselves but not yet pushing each other aside.
Both great albums. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 16:21
that is how I would have expressed it had my English been this eloquente -------------  
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Posted By: esky
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 16:30
Whenever anyone uses the word "pretentious" in regards to prog, it comes off rather mamby-pamby. I'd like to say I'm sorry you're not fond of Peter Hammill's singing, but I don't give an f. Do come around, though, won't you?
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 17:28
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 18:33
 -------------
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 30 2011 at 18:55
| I think Peter Hamill sings like a theatrical Bowie---I don't find it interesting or original at all mainly because it sounds theatrical---screams and all. Early Genesis is for me harder to listen to and understand then Generator and more original. Albums like Trespass, Nursery Crime SEPTP or LAmb are not easy listens---but bottom line--prog for me is about powerful, magical musicians --on guitar, keys, voice, drums, bass---ie. Yes and Genesis to name a few. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 00:45
| Easy..."Nursery Cryme" wins my vote. I think "Godbluff" is way overrated. |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 03:14
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I entered this thread just cause I were interested to see how large is the gap that Godbluf has on NC. It was a surprise to discover that NC leads. From reading the posts here it seems to me that some voters did not hear VDGG much. I knew for example that Ivan will choose NC cause he said many times that it is his favorite album (together with Foxtrot if I remember right) and I know he heared enogh of Godbluf but I feel some others here did not hear it (as somebody said he never got into VDGG) and I think it is wrong to vote in this situation.
I love NC (my favorite track is "The return of the giant hogweed" but all tracks are good IMO) and if more people prefer it it's fine with me but voting without knowing the other album make the poll useless. ------------- omri |
Posted By: Libor10
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 05:17
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Well, I've goth both albums at home, like VDGG (and I'm looking forward to Saturday as I'm going to see them live in Prague), but it's fair to say I love Genesis (especially with Gabriel) and thus there isn't any contest here for me. If only for Musical Box I should vote for NC. On the other side, comparing these two record, the winner wins only by slight distance (Foxtrot and Selling England are in my Genesis top 2 :-) ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 11:08
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The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!! The song that epitomizes what Progressive Rock means (Complex. elaborate, interesting melody, aggressive, with radical changes and intelligent lyrics plus a good violent component). This alone makes it better, but if you add Fountain of Salmacis (At leas)...WOW. Iván -------------
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 11:35
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^Can’t agree with you, Ivan. The Musical Box is fantastic, but so are all the four tracks on Godbluff.
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 12:09
Sounds like you're describing the four tunes on Godbluff! I like Musical Box, Salmacis, and Hogweed just fine (a few of the others are filler on that album). Ivan, what tunes do you like from Godbluff and why wouldn't you think they fit the description you give above? ------------- jc |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 12:19
Sorry to say it...I don't like VDGG at all. But always believed that The Musical Box is the best song ever. Iván -------------
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 13:31
Fair enough (you're certainly not alone there!). Then what tune(s) on Godbulff do you like least; what bugs you about that tune(s).
I ask because your description of Musical Box/Nursery Cryme (aggressive, intelligent lyrics, etc) is exactly what goes on w/Godbluff when I listen to it. Actually, Godbluff is more violent and aggressive (but that could be a turn off). That's a trait, I believe, that Genesis learned from VdGG. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 13:59
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I thought it was pretty established that Peter Gabriel admired Hammill's work. When that started and how much influence there was I don't know, and whether there was anything reciprocal. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 20:18
AND ... PG produced more than one piece for Peter Hammill, and I think that Peter is represented in one of those compilation albums on Peter Gabriel's label. And PG's words are very nice and complimentary.
I would think there was some influence here, and PG would have known about PH via the label and a few other things. Essentially, by the time that PG and Geneiss did their 2nd album, PH already had 4 or 5, and I am not sure that he was too hard to miss.
I don't think that we have to worry about who's on first, or second or third, but when it comes to individuality, because PH was probably at the forefront of the whole thing, but I am not sure that PH was concerned with the whole "competitive" nature of things, and he just stuck to his own insides and work and not worry about anyone else ... and I think this is really important these days to be able to be creative.
In general, and the same happened to Peter Gabriel, the more famous and known they became, the less creative and inventive they became ... and you can not sit here and say that about Peter Hammill. You have to be able to throw away the past and those ideas ... and PH did ... but I am not sure that Genesis or Peter Gabriel can think like that when it comes to their music, because of their "fame" ... and the fact that 10 thousand other people are also making money off them!
The one comparison that would be tough would be if you plugged up ... Godbluff against The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway ... because in essence ... you have the same parallel and study ... done left handed by one and right handed by the other! So to speak! I would still pick Peter Hammill though ... but Lamb is very special for me as well! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 20:31
Good post, you hit the nail on its head again!  -------------
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Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 20:51
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Only a brainwashed Genesis fan would rate Nursery higher than Godbluff. Godbluff should be winning this thread comfortably |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 21:16
Having an own and personal taste is not being brainwashed, brainwashed would be for example to think VDGG,King Crimson and Gentle Giant are the peak of Prog if I simply don't like most of their music. I was a Genesis fan when not many liked them in comparison with Yes, Wakeman or ELP, Genesis really got the respect of the majority when Gabriel had already left the band, so being a Genesis fan is anything except being brainwashed. And if you think Godbluff should be winning, learn to accept hat the majority doesn't agree with you. This doesn't mean one is better than the other, even when I believe that in a site like Prog Archives, every Prog album and band got the respect they deserve. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 22:42
Godbluff has a higher average rating than Nusery Cryme, but is has fewer ratings and is less known. Poll results don't mean much. It's very common for people to vote in such polls who aren't really familiar with both choices. You'll get VdGG fanboys who vote VdGG irregardless of the album, and without really knowing the competition, and Genesis fanboys who do the same. There are rather more Genesis fanboys, but I won't draw conclusions based on that.when it comes to the poll results in this competition. I do hope that most who have voted for either album have at least really listened to both albums. Maybe I shouldn't have voted because although I have heard Nursery Cryme considerable times (I used to be really big on Genesis), I haven't listened to it in full in years; whereas, Godbluff, which I voted for, is fresher in my memory. Sometimes I choose to listen to both albums again before voting in polls -- especially when my memories are rather hazy, and noting that my musical interests do change over time. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 22:56
Substitute "Pawn Hearts" for "Godbluff," and you may have a point. Otherwise, I'll choose early Genesis every time. I hardly think "brainwashed" is the appropriate term though. The word "enlightened" would be a better description. |
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 22:57
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NC is good, but Godbluff is better. ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: March 31 2011 at 23:54
My problem is to be called brainwashed because we like one album more than other. IMO Genesis reached their peak in Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot, both two sides of the same coin, and even when SEBTP and The Lamb are masterpieces, always believed that NC is slightly superior. It's a matter of taste. Iván -------------
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 06:03
Who can find fault with this. I come to a different conclusion, but so what? And the term 'brainwashed' hardly applies here, I agree (of course, neither does the word 'enlightened' that someone else used a few posts ago when describing why some folks like Genesis over VdGG...)
But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!
The song that epitomizes what Progressive Rock means (Complex. elaborate, interesting melody, aggressive, with radical changes and intelligent lyrics plus a good violent component).
This alone makes it better"
The 'this alone makes it better' part struck me the same way that the 'brainwashing' part did you, at least in terms of how off-the-mark it is. You still never mentioned what tune on Godbluff doesn't meet those requirements (complex, aggressive, etc). I guess I just feel like, while it's cool you don't like VdGG, that you don't really know the album we're talking about... but if I'm wrong, say so and I'll eat crow. I can say that I know both Nursery Cryme and Godbluff extremely well and have for decades.
The thing here is, I feel that some people will vote for Genesis or VdGG (or whoever in any of these polls) based on who their faves are, without knowing the other artists' work too well. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 09:52
Please Bucka001, you are new here (At least in posts), but if you spent more time in the forum, you would ALREADY KNOW I NEVER TALK ABOUT AN ALBUM I HAVEN'T HEARD OR NOT FAMILIAR WITH, so please, don't make those guesses again, because they are untrue. I don't know how old are you or how long you listen Prog (not important either), but I'm on this for exactly 34 years, and in this time i heard all the most important classic Prog bands and in most of the cases and even when I don't like most of their music, have all their albums, because all of them have the touch of the genius, and I respect that. No it doesn't, a brainwashed person doesn't take decisions for himself, but because he/she has been programmed to do so. In my case I made an informed decision, for example, I'm listening "The Udercover Man", and even when it's elaborate and well crafted, there0's something missing IMO, that ingredient that separetes the good from the great, Yes is dramatic but I believe too derivative of Bowie) and I could give an opinion about each and every song, but I don't need to justify me. I believe that The Musical Box is the best song ever released by a Progressive Rock band, and even when this is a subjective decision, I believe there are reasons that justify that opinion. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Harold-The-Barrel
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 09:57
Hard to choose, Godbluff is probably more consistent, but i'm going with Nursery Cryme
------------- You must be joking.....Take a running jump...... |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:03
Ivan, I don't know how you read my previous post, but I was agreeing with you and saying that I can find no fault with your opinion, and I also stated that the person who used the term "brainwashing" went a bit over the top with that. And the reason I thought you may not be familiar with the Godbluff album is becuase 1) You admit you don't like VdGG (so why would you take the time to really know a random album of theirs; in the same way, I've heard enough Dream Theater to know that I don't like them, but I can't tell you stuff about specific albums) and, 2) I asked you several posts ago about specific tunes on Godbluff and you didn't reply, although you've replied to other people's posts since then.
You're wrong about me being new here. I've posted quite a bit for two or three years now (maybe more). So you made a wrong assumption about that. If you've been listening to prog for 34 years, you're probably younger than me (I remember Tarkus and Trilogy and Yessongs, etc, when they came out; I started being hip to prog around '72/'73). I also wrote a book on VdGG and interviewed Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Armando Gallo (Genesis biographer), and Paul Whitehead (a close friend, who painted covers for both Genesis and VdGG).
And Undercover Man is not derivative of Bowie. It may sound like Bowie (I can understand that interpretation), but it's the other way around as far as who's being derivative. For a long time it's been known that Bowie is a Hammill fan and has been influenced by him, as has Gabriel who has stated "The one artist I'd like to base my career around is Peter Hammill."
Not that any of that should make you like Godbluff... it's totally fine that you don't (many of my own friends can't stand VdGG, so I get it)! ------------- jc |
Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:25
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...oh, and I also interviewed John Anthony at length (who produced Nursery Cryme and several VdGG/Hammill albums). File this post in the shameless book plug department!
Paul Whitehead has been a dear friend of mine for several years. I can say that one thing Nursery Cryme has going for it (among many other things, definitely a good album) is that it's Paul's favorite album cover that he's ever worked on.
I interviewed Paul initially several years ago, and he spoke about Genesis, VdGG, and several other things. Check it out:
http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/paulw.htm" rel="nofollow - http://www.vandergraafgenerator.co.uk/paulw.htm ------------- jc |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:26
Not totally Bucka: "But, Ivan, I thought it was equally ridiculous when you stated "The Musical Box guys!!!!!!!!" I don't think its' ridiculous to compare what for me is the best song ever released with Goldbluff, even if Nursery Cryme was formed by The Musical Box and 7 other songs, still I would go with Nursery Cryme.. But I believe that at east Hogweed, Harold the Barrel and Fountain of Salmacis are also masterpieces. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:38
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And I insist, I find "Undercover Man" extremely similar to parts to Space Oddity released in 1969 while Godbluff was released in 1975, so yes, I still believe Godbluff it's musically derivative from early Bowie..At least that's my impression. Both Bowie and VDGG started releasing albums in 1969 and there's no connection between Space Oddity and Aerosol Grey Machine Just a comment, I love Paul Whitehead's covers, but everything is so personal, that I find Trespass much more solid than any other Genesis cover independently of what Paul Whitehead thinks or likes, it's extremely beautiful. Iván
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Posted By: bucka001
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:40
Well, I see your point. To be honest, I think it is something akin to ridiculous (in a way that saying I don't like Fellni's films because I like decadance, humor, and grotesque imagery is ridiculous since it's all in there), but 'ridiculous' is probably too strong a word and more inflammatory than I intended. ------------- jc |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 11:49
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Don't worry Bucka, we all use strong terms that later I repent. Now, I like complex elaborate music with a strong melody music, but I also need that X ingredient to make it perfect to my OWN PERSONAL TASTE, I find that ingredient in early Genesis and not in VDGG. There's also an issue, even when Hammill is a great lyricist, I find .Genesis lyrics much more dramatic, and I like that. BTW: I like and grotesque imagery but my favourite Fellini movie is "Il Viteloni", precisely the only one that escapes to those standards. Being that he goes too far in movies like Rome and SatiriconIván -------------
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Posted By: Steven Brodziak
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 17:10
Pink Floyd vs Genesis is still in the air. I have yet to vote in this poll and it seams Genesis is beating VDGG.
Is someone else going to do the Yes - Genesis poll? This all goes back to "Did Genesis create the best string of 5 albums Trespass-Lamb"
------------- Well, there it is. (Amadeus) |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:21
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if I would use one song to describe the word sublime it would be Seven Stones on NC, what a song so powerfull RAARGH -------------
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Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: April 01 2011 at 18:53
Are you apologizing to the people who like VDGG? Because no apology is necessary, it does not effect me. If you are, however, saying that you are sorry for yourself because you can't get into VDGG well then I too am sorry for you...
Best thing ever said on this site. Mr. Hammill is truly amazing, and for those who "can't get into" his or VDGG works are at a true loss, at least that is my opinion...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 15:04
You were partially right, took my Godbluff copy and listened it several repeatedly for the first time in two decades, and enjoyed it, much better than Pawn Hears and rated it with 4 stars (really 3.5). Still I believe that NC is superior and by far. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 18:46
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 19:09
You just nailed it for me. If the comparison was SEBTP against Godbluff I'd award it to SEBTP but takes nothing away from Godbluff.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 02 2011 at 22:30
I don't like King Crimson either, but still rated ITCOTCK and Red very high. Iván -------------
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 05:58
The problem many people have with VdGG is that Peter Hammill sings the lyrics as if he is living through them, with all the emotions that are in it, and since the emotions are extreme so is his singing, and he is being accompanied by the band in an appropriate matter for that, which often leads to disharmonious sounds. I love that kind of singing Hammill did not invent it, by the way; the Swedish born German actress Zarah Leander dd that too in the 30s and 40s of the last century. Two decades later another great German actress and singer, Hildegard Knef, did the same: The great Ella Fitzgerald, by the way, once mentioned that she wished she could sing like Hildegard Knef; she was a great admirer of her. So you see Hammill is by far not the inventor of this kind of singing. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 06:01
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Godbluff is my favourite VDGG album and Nursery Cryme is only about my 4th favourite Genesis album so Godbluff has to win for me -------------  
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Posted By: Mista-Gordie
Date Posted: April 03 2011 at 12:14
| Genesis is by far a best band than VDGG for me, but Nursery Cryme is their weakest album from the Gabriel-era (even if it is damn good) and Godbluff is the best VDGG album with Pawn Hearts, so I'd say Godbluff. However, there isn't a single song in Godbluff that is close to The Musical Box. This is such a masterpiece and even SUpper's Ready isn't by far better than it. |
Posted By: zachfive
Date Posted: April 04 2011 at 14:39
Cool story... but I never said he was, nor did moshkito.
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Posted By: DanthraX
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 23:29
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Tough decision, two of my favorite albums in the whole prog catalogue, but Godbluff has something so indescribable that amaze me, from the moment Undercover Man starts with it's "here at the glass" until Sleepwalkers fades... I even get sad when the record is over jajaja... I'm so happy I discovered VdGG a couple of years ago, thanks to PA, so thank you all who voted 4 or 5 stars for Godbluff!  ------------- I look up, I'm almost blinded by the warmth of what's inside me and the taste that's in my soul, but I'm dead inside as I stand alone... |
Posted By: esky
Date Posted: April 06 2011 at 11:31
Yes, a very interesting and intricate item in the VDGG catalog. I'm still stumped though on how it can be compared to 'Cryme. Apples and oranges again, I'm afraid.
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Posted By: Steven Brodziak
Date Posted: April 06 2011 at 17:33
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Wow! So close! ------------- Well, there it is. (Amadeus) |
Posted By: Varon
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 11:42
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G o d b l u f f ------------- Would you catch the final words of mine? Would you catch my words??? |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 11:44
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Well vote, then we will have a tie.
------------- BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: davidk
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 10:21
| I would take any Peter Hammil/ Van Der Graaf Generator album over Nursery Crime, GODBLUFF ALL THE WAY! |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 19:30
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Go Godbluff Go! You can do it! -------------
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Posted By: Steven Brodziak
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 22:17
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It's a Cryme to have a tie. ------------- Well, there it is. (Amadeus) |
Posted By: dr prog
Date Posted: April 10 2011 at 21:04
| Musical box is the most overrated prog song of all time. There were 100s of better songs back then |
Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 17:21
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"Godbluff" by a country mile. " Nursery Cryme" is not one of my preferred Genesis albums. ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |