WHERE'S FAIRPORT CONVENTION?

Those Founding Fathers of Prog Folk.

jonirob wrote: WHERE'S FAIRPORT CONVENTION? Those Founding Fathers of Prog Folk.

Dodgy territory.

Surely when Bob Dylan brought in an electric band to back him, you had prog folk - was it Newport Jazz festival or Manchester??? And if you want the parallel to a pop group having a full studio orchestra back them (i.e the Moody Blues), David McWilliams (with the Raymond Lefevbre Orchestra) or even Paul Simon first solo album sneak in before FPC.

 When Richard Thompson was with them, they were just barely prog. Afterwards, no way!

I think there's a place for the band here myself- other bands like Trees and Horslips are here, and whilst they are excellent bands, Fairport Convention were clearly an influence on such acts.

Similarly, bands like Pentangle and The Incredible String Band could be included too, as they, like Fairport Convention, took folk music into unchartered territory. Acts like Comus (thankfully present) took it even further out of the woods.

Perhaps the finest progressive folk/rock album to these ears is 'Now We Are Six' by Steeleye Span, which had some quite heavy rock music mixed in with the traditional folk leanings of the band.

However, tangerine62's claim does have some merit- I think if bands like Fairport were here, it's possible that some people would come out and demand for categories like 'prog country', such as The Band and The Flying Burrito Brothers.

I think you dismiss them too lightly there Tang62.

I don't support their inclusion here myself, as they were primarily a folk or folk rock band. There's no doubt though that some of their stuff was prog folk.

Tracks which come to mind include "A sailors life", "Sloth", and the wonderful "One more chance", sadly Sandy Denny's swansong with the band.

Many of you know that I am a folkie at heart (on top of being a jazz buff, a rock fanatic and classical amateur - tooting my own horn here, uh?) , and that there are a few folk prog groups included in PA......

But Fairport and ISB and Steeleye....... sorry , not prog enough for inclusion (IMHO , anyway)!!! I was not keen on the Horslips inclusion already.......

But they should be mentioned somewhere in the PA because of their very influential carreers.

The Pentangle , however...... Folk-blues-jazz all mixed up in one is very progressive and rock

Not to start the debate again, I was listening to the Island remaster of Liege and Lief album with two excellent bonus tracks....

Fairport Convention's role with prog is more with the amazing amount of musicians that came in and out of the group such as Denny , Hutchings , Thompson , Swarbrick (future tull ) Pegg (also Tull) and Mattacks (Tull and Spirogyra guest) as well as mainstay Nicoll, than with the folk rock they developped.

I can now say that early Fairprt Convention was definitely more US/California folk for theur first two albums (FC and What We Did On Our Holidays) short tracks and very conventional folk rock. Things started changing around Unhalfbricking but mostly due to A Sailor's life (12 mins if I remember well ) and that track received most attention, after the Dylan Cover "Si Tu Dois Partir",  and that "epic " - long improvisation instrumental moments - was the key to the sound change of Liege And Lief.

They got sensational critics for being the first group to develop a british-sounding folk rock by using a typical british folk repertoire (ashley Hutchings wish) and put a rock beat to it and creating their own self-penned folk rock (A Sandy Denny thing). Tam Lin and Matty groves again were the longest tracks that got most light , but these were more of a solid groove with lenghty instrument passages , than an ever changing soundscape. This L&L album was very influential on a lot of groups (some of which rightly diserve their inclusion in the PA) a bit as Sgt Pepper's LHCB was to prog. But to say that this group is worthy of inclusion is pushing things a bit far.

By the time their next album , Full House , was out  both main influences were gone (Denny in solo via Fotheringay and Hutchings first approached for Mr. Fox then went on with Steeleye Span which really concentrated for the first albums on traditional folk covers) but Sloth (again the longer track ) got most of the shine. The rest of the album seems to be content to build on normal folk rock although there are many enjoyable moments , nothing to bring  a proghead to the edge of his seat.  By this time Swarbrick and Thompson were the leaders, but Thompson was to turn to Suffism (a form of Islam trance with the Swinging Dervishes) went solo with his wife, produced highly acclaimed solo albums (baren to the minimum) but living in extreme self-imposed poverty although the couple had two kids. This album is not to be mistaken with the live album called House Full (clever title, ain't it).

Later albums seem to be repeating the Full House formula (albeit less the lenghty groovy tracks)although I am really familiar only up to Babacombe Lee, which most agree is the last classic FC album.

I really like 'Babbacombe Lee'- it's a terrifically played and sang folk rock concept album that's one of the most underrated albums in their catalogue. I have yet to hear much beyond that album too, but 'Rising For The Moon' had Sandy Denny returning to the fold, and whilst I don't think it's as good as the earlier albums, it's still a great record, if a little bit slicker sounding. I have heard some of their more recent stuff like 'Red And Gold', which is more or less just straight-ahead folk-rock with nothing too special about it, and reviews of their later albums always seem to say 'their best for 25 years'; the fact that every album's greeted with this makes me wary.

I didn't realise that Ashley Hutchings was to join Mr.Fox- they are a superb band that I think deserves a place here; check out tracks like 'Mendle', which are very progressive and musically interesting.

I'm in the process of putting together an extensive UK folk collection myself, and one band I've heard is very good is Dando Shaft. Anyone able to shed any light on this combo?

Excellent summary Hugues, spot on.

The only thing I'd add is that "Rising for the moon", Denny's last album with the band is well up there with the classics. "One more chance" was in my opinion, her finest composition.

salmacis wrote: I didn't realise that Ashley Hutchings was to join Mr.Fox- they are a superb band that I think deserves a place here; check out tracks like 'Mendle', which are very progressive and musically interesting. I'm in the process of putting together an extensive UK folk collection myself, and one band I've heard is very good is Dando Shaft. Anyone able to shed any light on this combo?

As for Mr. Fox, both Pegg , Bob and wife Carolann are outstanding musicians but totally un-commercial, making it tough to listen and enjoy their stuff. Only one track from their two albums is of interest to progheads : the 12 min+ Gypsy. BTW: both albums just got re-issued separately with their original artwork restored. Both previous re-issues were on a 2 on 1 cd.

Dando Shaft: Three albums between 70 and 73. Some good stuff but try out the compilation called Reaping The Harvest first. They sound a bit like Spriguns Of Tolgus or early Horslips. All DS albums cds have been released through Repertoire label.

In folk prog, The Trees , Comus and Spirogyra (all three on the PA) are definitely my faves along with Pentangle. Also worthy of note : water Into Wine band.

You might want to check out The Unbroken Circle site: gives you a very special look at folk rock stressing the acid/psych/prog folks: this is all part of Wyrd folk . amazing: http://www.theunbrokencircle.co.uk/index_light.html - http://www.theunbrokencircle.co.uk/index_light.html

Have fun!!!!