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PLEASE: Lock DT’s reviews for a month &

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Topic: PLEASE: Lock DT’s reviews for a month &
Posted By: Man Overboard
Subject: PLEASE: Lock DT’s reviews for a month &
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 04:53
also retroactively delete any from the past 3 weeks.    The forums themselves have calmed down a bit, but it's just SICKENING to see reviews for all DT albums all over the front page that have nothing to do with the albums themselves, but are instead geared towards the love or hate of the band itself, or even the prog metal genre.  It pisses me off to no end.  After the month is up, maybe people on both sides can be bloody adults about the issue and if they want to comment on DT or prog metal, do it on the forum in a polite fashion, and if they have an informative review about the album THAT IS ABOUT THE ALBUM, they can post that as a review.

You know it's bad when a DT fan is calling for the locking/deleting of their recent reviews. 


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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.



Replies:
Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:05
I have to admit, you do have a good point. I just want you to understand that I have become a little tired of the DT craze myself, and my reviews (whiich are all my sincere and honest opinions) on this band are focused on broadining the minds of those that are only commited to this band. I to used to be a lover of so called "Prog Metal" till someone introduced me to King Crimson and Genesis. I apologise for for upsetting you , perhaps I went about it the wrong way, but my intensions were good.

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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
              John 7:38


Posted By: henri_ds
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:06
+1


Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:13
You could lock the dt reviews for a year you would still see alot of reviews when the option is unlocked again


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:18
Originally posted by JesusBetancourt JesusBetancourt wrote:

I have to admit, you do have a good point. I just want you to understand that I have become a little tired of the DT craze myself, and my reviews (whiich are all my sincere and honest opinions) on this band are focused on broadining the minds of those that are only commited to this band. I to used to be a lover of so called "Prog Metal" till someone introduced me to King Crimson and Genesis. I apologise for for upsetting you , perhaps I went about it the wrong way, but my intensions were good.


Yours was one of the reviews that caused me to make this thread.  I still love prog metal, though King Crimson is in my top 3 list of bands...  Genesis is another I love...  as well as modern symphonic prog like The Flower Kings.  I feel that making "reviews" like yours is going about it the wrong way, it is only likely to inflame people and cause them to post more 'counter-reviews'. 

And what album did you hear?  Surely the 24-minute title track cannot be described as "prog-metal" or "alt-rock". 


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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:18

Wait until I've heard Octavarium and have posted MY review!



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Logos
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:19
And it's obvious that quite a few of the Octavarium reviews still concern the LaBrie-soloalbum-leak. Just read some of the latest "this is just pure metal.." sh*t-reviews.


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:19
Blacksword:  Let it sink in for a month or so before posting a review.  "First impression" reviews are what started this whole mess in the first place!  

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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:23

As I said, I apologise. I admit I WAS doing this the wrong way... I have gone agienst my own code of ethics.."If you have nothing nice to say about something, dont say anything". I am a humble person and I hope you accept my apology. I promise I will not submit reviews that will enrage and upset my fellow progers.



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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
              John 7:38


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:25

Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

Blacksword:  Let it sink in for a month or so before posting a review.  "First impression" reviews are what started this whole mess in the first place!  

I fully intend to. I never review straight away, although I'm sometimes tempted. I think the only DT album I've ever reviewed before is Train of Thought, which I didn't like. That was only after a few spins, but my opinion didn't change with time.

 



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:26
It's okay to post a review of an album that goes against the general consensus.  Just make it intelligent and informative:  give specific examples.  If you really feel an album is one star, it better make Love Beach look like Close To The Edge, ya know?

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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:28
Not an easy task in that case

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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
              John 7:38


Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:35
I'm almost *certain* that Love Beach is the reason that they are so stern about 1-star reviews...  no matter how much you detest a particular album, would you REALLY prefer to listen to this gem?






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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:37
I cant beat that argument

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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
              John 7:38


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:43

I've only ever given 2 1 star reviews before. For Emerson Lake & Powel, and for Invisible Touch. With hindsight I actually think I was unfair in both cases.

I have never awarded 1 or 5 stars since. For anything.



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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 05:44
And after seeing that i never shall

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"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water"
              John 7:38


Posted By: Cluster One
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 06:06
Can't...take...anymore...DT...fanboys...and...their...review s...

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Marmalade...I like marmalade.


Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:48


Is it possible that with new releases, only collaborators, (which I assume are experienced in progrock and are balanced about musical genres)  reviews are counted in the first month and other reviews submitted are still viewed but held for that month from counting towards any overall rating given to the album and at the end of it are reviewed for their balanced viewpoint and relevance to the said album before being added.

Anyone agree or disagree with this??


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Eternity


Posted By: maani
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:58

All:

Every member and visitor is entitled to his/her opinion.  However, many of you are correct: what many people are writing are not "reviews," but either general support or non-support for the album.  In this regard, I have been deleting some of the "reviews."  So, if you see your "review" missing from the page, you will know why.

A "review" is just that: a review.  It is not an "I really love this album, and it's the best the band has ever done, so all of you who don't like it are idiots," or "I think DT fans are off their rockers by calling this a good, even great, album.  It's terrible, don't buy it."  Those are not reviews.

A review talks about the songs, the approach, the musicianship, the production, etc.  I would say only about 50% of the Octavarium reviews I have read do that.  The other half are, as noted, little more than "I love it" or "I hate it," with little or no supporting writing.

Either review an album, or don't submit a "review."

Peace.



Posted By: Arsillus
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 09:32

^ Well put maani. Are you guys just sick everything DT, or just these pseudo-reviews that don't even reveiw the album?



Posted By: barbs
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 09:55
Originally posted by maani maani wrote:

All:

Every member and visitor is entitled to his/her opinion.  However, many of you are correct: what many people are writing are not "reviews," but either general support or non-support for the album.  In this regard, I have been deleting some of the "reviews."  So, if you see your "review" missing from the page, you will know why.

A "review" is just that: a review.  It is not an "I really love this album, and it's the best the band has ever done, so all of you who don't like it are idiots," or "I think DT fans are off their rockers by calling this a good, even great, album.  It's terrible, don't buy it."  Those are not reviews.

A review talks about the songs, the approach, the musicianship, the production, etc.  I would say only about 50% of the Octavarium reviews I have read do that.  The other half are, as noted, little more than "I love it" or "I hate it," with little or no supporting writing.

Either review an album, or don't submit a "review."

Peace.



  Thanks for clarifying Maani. 


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Eternity


Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 10:22

Well one of the problems I see, are the forum like responses in the review section.

It starts with one not all to bad review, which is either very positive (5 stars) or very intolerant of the genre, and the band (0 stars'because it doesn't fit the reviewers definition of prog).

I don't mind the first possibility, some people are blinded by their fan-obsesion, and these reviews are easily discarded as over enthousiastic fan's , the second I find offensive to the site, and the many fans a band has.

Anyway back to what I wanted to say.

After one or two of those posts, other reviewers are attacking that review in the review section, which is not the place. Discussion is for the forum, reviewing, and opinionating is for the reviewsection, but no review should be made about another review.

An album review, should be an objective expression of ones subjective view on an album, but a review shouldn't be insulting to other people who have a diferent opinion.

 

Hmmm well

 

As a suggestion, when you notice a "bad" review, don't try to counteract that review in the review section, with an attack on the review, but get these kinds of discussions to take place at the place it belongs (The Forum).

Funnily I read some other forum threads in the past, and some people said, that sometimes they raised or lowered their rating to counteract a rating they didn't appreciate. This is not the right thing to do. A rating you give should be given on basis of your own reasoning, and should be justifiable on the albums own merits as a reviewer sees fit.

 

If somebody understands me that's a bonus, else



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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 10:42

I think we need to bear in mind the amount of effort which goes into writing the material for an album by the band members.  Consequently, any prog album needs to be given at least 15/20 listens over a period of about 3 months before it can be properly reviewed... experience has taught me that my oppinion mellows after the first few listens as the music is put into context along with the rest of the band's catalogue/ bands in the genre.  I think any artist deserves this from us, and the site desrves it if it is to retain its credibility.

Please think very hard before giving a '1' star rating; very occasionally, albums do deserve this, but it can only be considered as an insult to the artists themselves.



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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: Ben2112
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 13:32
Originally posted by Man Overboard Man Overboard wrote:

also retroactively delete any from the past 3 weeks.   
The forums themselves have calmed down a bit, but it's just SICKENING
to see reviews for all DT albums all over the front page that have
nothing to do with the albums themselves, but are instead geared
towards the love or hate of the band itself, or even the prog metal
genre.  It pisses me off to no end.  After the month is up,
maybe people on both sides can be bloody adults about the issue and if
they want to comment on DT or prog metal, do it on the forum in a
polite fashion, and if they have an informative review about the album
THAT IS ABOUT THE ALBUM, they can post that as a review.

You know it's bad when a DT fan is calling for the locking/deleting of their recent reviews. 



I feel your pain MO. Though I'm not sure your solution is the answer, I too am getting fed up with the constant bickering and immature behavior on both sides of this issue. I am a (perhaps overly) positive person and try to refrain from online arguments as they're just so pathetic and pointless usually, but it has been getting harder and harder to maintain positivity. Today seems to be the first day in ages that the general mood of the forums is pretty genial, and I think your post probably has something to do with that.


Posted By: con safo
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 14:29
I think after the rush is over an admin should go through the reviews and delete any that have nothing to with the album itself, or are just blatant jabs at the band or prog-metal, its so childish.

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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 14:35

I seem to recall something similar happening with IQ's Dark Matter a few months back, though noy on quite the same scale in terms of reviews. With any luck DT won't be recording anything new for at least 2 years, and this current wave of fan mania has pretty much died down (on the forums anyway).

As Daevid Allen once said, it's all much too serious to take seriously. 



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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom




Posted By: Lindsay Lohan
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 15:37
Ah well there is not a single dt review on the front page now.


Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 15:41

^ The front page consist mostly of 70's music.

 

Like that was the only progressive era We need more present day proggers for balance.

 

DT fans please come back



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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT


Posted By: bamba
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 16:36

i'm tired to see all that octavarium reviews  DT POSTS  AND TOPICS.

 



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Learning Flute [Amigo de Manticore y Memowakeman] (primo)[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2187/2437702285_fbb450500d_o.jpg


Posted By: Borealis
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 16:45

Octavarium already is ranked 15 in the all time Top100. Its better ranked than King Crimson Red, Jethro Tull Thick as a brick, Genesis Nurcery Cryme, Camel Mirage, and ELP Brain salad surgery. That is enough for me

Can't stand DT fan/hate boys anymore...



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Vive le Québec libre!...


Posted By: Borealis
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 17:13
DREAM THEATER Octavarium
Review ( http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=35575 - Permanent link ) by http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=86 - FishyMonkey @ 10:32:13 PM EST, 6/7/2005

PROG REVIEWER
5 stars  —  Wow. What a change. What a ****ing change.

It's impossible to describe how much better this album is than its predecessor, Train of Thought. So much diffetn so much better than ANYTHING they've written. More focused, no meandering solos for three minutes, no cheesy songs that get REALLY annoying after a cople listens (although I Walk Beside You almost did it if it weren't for the awesome begginning), no Labrie wailing everywhere.

No, this is probably Dream Theater at their best, no doubt. A more modern, focused, original and almost electronic sound at some points, while highly progressive and symphonic in others like the beastly title track. This album has...everything. It's such a huge difference, it's impossible to describe. At first I didn't like it. I was confused by how different it was than ToT, SDOIT, hell EVERYTHING they've done. It grew on me, slowly but surely, and now...I'm sure it's their best album. Only Images and Words, SDOIT disc 2 and SFAM give it a run for its money, but in the end, I flat out like Octavarium more.

The Root Of All Evil: This is an AWESOME song, no doubt. Consider it part 3 of The Glass Prison/This Dying Soul series, and it definitely is betetr than its predecessors just because it is so much more focused. It begins with a cool electronic feel, and then you hear the riff from This Dying Soul come in quietly, and some cool footsteps that make think of SFAM. Then the main part blasts in, and your face will be shocked. Simple guitar and drumming parts with Portnoy keeping time instead of going crazy, yet it sounds even better than SOME of those crazy moments. Labrie comes in, sounds very mature for a change, which is awesome. Soem powerful moments scattered throughout, the whole track is awesome. No flaws. 10/10

The Answer Lies Within: Typical ballad. Not as good as Wait For Sleep, but pretty damn good. The segue between TROAE and this song is really relaxing, and the whoel song is a nice relaxing song. It's a nice listen, even if it isn't your most played song. Pretty, that's all. 9/10

These Walls: Well, when I first heard, I thought it was DT meets nu-metal. How wrong I was. The beginning part is always interesting, and how it leads into the opening riffs is awesome. Then the band explodes into this awesome 6/8 song with a strong melody and is very catchy overall. Petrucci doesn't really do much besides put in a memorable melody at the end. Portnoy is REALLY making it happen though, no doubt. His fills are interesting and catchy, making the song extremely memorable. The continuum makes the osund interesting as well. It's not perfect -- it still sounds a bit nu-metalish to me. But it's the best damn nu-metal I've everheard. 9.5/10

I Walk Beside You: The clocks and violin hits at the beginning is interesting and pretty freakin' sweet, but the chorus sucks. That's this song in a nutshell. I like half of it, the other half can die. Too U2-ish for me. You'll listen to it once and then maybe twice, but for your ballad listen The Answer Lies Within, or better yet, go back to Images and Words. 8/10

Panic Attack: The heaviest, most thrashy DT song ever. And one of the best. Portnoy is once again AWESOME here, and Petrucci sounds great. Ruddess isn't really that prominent except in a couple parts. Labrie really does well here, no doubt. All in all, if you want to ease a metalhead into prog, this is a perfect transition piece. Awesome awesome stuff. 10/10

Never Enough: Maybe my favorite track on the album. It's pretty electronic, and features soem of the BEST and most badass drumming I've ever heard. The opening guitar part reminds me of The Root Of All Evil in it's awesomeness. The chorus is semi powerful with lyrics that make you wonder...is this it? DT's last album? Well, maybe not that sorta train of thought, but the song is definitely about the diservice we as fans have done to them. The chorus kinda drags though, keeping this from being another flawless song. It's just the drumming that keeps me coming back, the frikkin' drumming! The whole song is awesome though, so the lyrics are nullified cause the song is that good. After the first chorus, Portnoy really gets going, and it's AWESOME. 9.5/10

Sacrificed Sons: OK. Porcupine Tree fans. Take Russia On Ice. Make it heavier and a little mroe intense in the beginning. You get this song. It took a bit to sink in, much like Russia On Ice, but it is DEFINITELY an awesome song in every way. The beginning is t the song really gets going after about four minutes...good old DT. No complaints on this song, honestly. 10/10

Octavarium: OK. Here it is, the 24 minute epic. And boy, is it epic in ever yway. Starting off with Ruddess having a liiiiittle too much fun with continuum, the real song kicks off after about 3 or 4 minutes, don't remember which. Then a nice acoustic part comes in...and FLUTE! WOW! King Crimson influence right there baby, and I love it. Then for awhile, not much happens, although it's pretty. About halfway through the song, Ruddess goes crazy. It drags a bit, but it's still cool. Oh, at aroudn the 10 minute mark, I CAN HEAR MYUNG. AND IT REMINDS ME OF YES! Alright! Good stuff. The song builds more until it climaxes in an awesome way with Labrie shotuing at the top of his lungs. Labrie isn't really good at that, but...it's still REALLY effective. Then the song exludes with some FVrench Horn and flute work, REALLY NICE! The whole song builds so great, it's really a great listenign experience. I prefer some of the other songs on the album ,though, just because the first 12 minutes get a little stale...but, hey that happens in all good prog songs basically! I give this a 10/10 simply because of the sheer epicness of the hwole piece, it's really good. Not the best, but close. 10/10

So there you have it. DT's best, no doubt. I can't believe how creative they got here, it's awesome. And I can only think of one time where they solo too much here...only once. The rest is all tight, addicting and awesoem songs. Awesome work, DT.
 
 
 
Did you noticed the date this was sent? The same day the album was out! Man, calm down a bit... It surprise me from a prog reviewer. And he's not the only one.


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Vive le Québec libre!...


Posted By: Cesar Inca
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 17:28

 

One of these days I'm gonna cut you into little pieces... or even better, I'm gonna write a 4-star review for DT's "Octavarium"!! 



Posted By: Man Overboard
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 17:49
You know, FishyMonkey's review is actually credible.  He's a personal friend of mine, and I know for a fact that he had the album for two weeks before the release date.  I know because I hooked him up with it when I got it 2 weeks before, and we both bought the official release when it came out.

Still, I stand by my original post.


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https://soundcloud.com/erin-susan-jennings" rel="nofollow - Bedroom guitarist". Composer, Arranger, Producer. Perfection may not exist, but I may still choose to serve Perfection.

Commissions considered.


Posted By: FishyMonkey
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 17:55
Yes, thank you S_P (Man Overboard). I listened to the DT album for about two weeks straight, and I don't mean background music while I do HW. I mean honestly listen. And trust me, I went through a lot of changes of opinion with that album. At first I hated it. I meant vehemently. Then it grew on me slowly but surely, unti lI realized there was much more to it than meets the eye (or what met my ears the first listen).

I stick by that review now too, three weeks now, still haven't gotten tired of it. Just gotta fix the typos in that review... :(


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http://www.last.fm/user/FishyMonkey/?chartstyle=artists">


Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 18:02

I know some of you might find this difficult to believe, but I bought 'Octivarium' over a week ago, and haven't played it yet.  It's just sat there patiently in the rack, next to ToT, waiting for me to find the appropriate time to savour. 

I don't think that will be until all the hype dies down, and I will take my time to work out my own oppinion, away from all this pressure.  I'm kind of awkward like that!



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Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson


Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 18:05

I have no problem with that review

It's quite decent, if not good written.
It doesn't convince me to go and buy it, but it's a good, though long read



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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT


Posted By: SevenColoured
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 18:26
+1


Posted By: HeirToRuin
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 18:37
Reviews should be moderated.

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ARTEMIA - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic" rel="nofollow - http://www.reverbnation.com/artemiamusic
L.i.E. - http://www.reverbnati


Posted By: pvaz
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 22:32

While I have to agree that DT reviews need to be locked out, at the very least until the album is released, there are other alternatives.  Simply redo the rating system.  Eliminate all 5 star reviews.  Classics like Close To The Edge and Thick As A Brick will still remain at the top of the 100 list.  However DT albums would sink like a brick, as DT fans give every album of theirs 5 stars.  This would work for at least a week while DT fans scream for murder, but than rather than do anything intellegent, they would just sumit 2x as many 4 star reviewsWacko.  Hopefully somewhere along the line everyone will realize what poor, pathetic, and most of all, delusional fools these men are by wasting their sanity on such issues.

 

 

Of course we have to wonder which poor, pathetic, and most of all, delusional fool is wasting his time by writing this.



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Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.


Posted By: con safo
Date Posted: June 15 2005 at 22:53
That would bring down the scores of much more than DT albums, did you happen to see how many genesis fans give 5 star reviews? ELP fans? Yes fans? VDGG fans? ... the list goes on, its not just DT fans.

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