Meat Loaf to Prog Related
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71392
Printed Date: March 03 2025 at 12:39
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Meat Loaf to Prog Related
Posted By: Lynx33
Subject: Meat Loaf to Prog Related
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 06:57
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Meat Loaf to Prog Related
------------- Mindez elmúlt. Ma már tudom köszönteni a szépséget. |
Replies:
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 07:10
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If this is a genuine proposal then you need to say why you think he fits in prog-related. Also, a quick search will reveal at least 4 previous proposals. If you have a look at these threads you will find out the status of these proposals and what the general opinion was. |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 07:13
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63501&KW=meat - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63501&KW=meat http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59207&KW=meat - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59207&KW=meat http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30447&KW=meat - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30447&KW=meat http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16806&KW=meat - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16806&KW=meat The general opinion in most cases seems to be a resounding NO. |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 11:34
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My opinion is Yes ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 11:39
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As much as they may be progrelated, those other four threads do sum it up. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:32
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tuxon wrote:Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:42
There's already three votes yes, what do you know?  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:42
| How did Meat Loaf influence Prog, and what makes him "exceptional"? |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:46
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he did invent cheese -------------  
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Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:47
He didn't influence it, but he was influenced by it. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:53
..or Jim Steinman was. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 12:59
That's what I thought, but the PR expectations were changed some time ago to must be influenced by and must be an influence on Prog (before that it was or rather than and). But now the definition (guidelines) has changed again, and it doesn't look like like they must meet the influence on criterion anymore to be considered (though it's still mentioned, in fact in the number one place). Meat Loaf did not meet former standards for entry, as I see it, so maybe things will be different now. |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:00
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Yeah that's more true... ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:26
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Prog-Related? By the current PA standards he could have a place in Crossover! ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:32
Don't know what to do: laugh or get mad  it is.There was someone at some point was thinking ABBA was a good addition for prog-related.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:35
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to me Alice Cooper fits better then Meat Loaf in Progarchives, he was one of the first to bring theatrics on stage and they were influenced and did also influence prog bands (Genesis hinihint, stage show, costumes) -------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:39
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I've supported Alice Cooper, and continue to for Prog Related. Regarding Abba, though I would not support the addition for Prog Related, it is not altogether without merits, I think. To me, this is a proggy song: And, incidentally, not to make a case for Abba, I find some similarities with Abba to Mellow Candle which is in Prog Folk (two female singers of course). My basic position is that (at least almost) everything suggested has a degree of merit (the degree can depend upon the listeners' expectations and associations, knowledge of the music and familiarity with other similar acts etc.) |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:48
ABBA is one of the best pop bands, cleverly made pop, by skilled musicians (especially the keyboardist) and the girls did amazing vocals. A lot of 70s musicians had great, complex arrangements but that don't make them prog. Even French artist Joe Dassin (Le jardin de Luxembourg is quite an epic
). |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 13:52
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I don't think so.
2 out of 3 aint bad..
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:03
Look it is really simple..... Should Mr. Steinman's band fit any revised definitions of prog related, then please someone get your proposal justification " act" together and submit to Easy Livin to take it to the admin team. But to just say the band should be here is as good as saying " There will be weather tomorrow" ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:11
For me theatrics have no bearing and only the music counts. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:12
I certainly don't think Abba is Prog, and although I like Abba considerably, I couldn't say if it's one of the best pop bands (though I think Abba is good). What I meant is that although I would not support Abba for Prog-Related (and definitely not a Prog category), I do not think Abba musically has no merits as a band with a progressive rock relation. It's a matter of degree, and that degree depends opon various factors, and different people will disagree on degree. "Eagle", at least, is proggy-sounding to me. I can think of a lot of French pop that has proggy qualities that I wouldn't support for inclusion, and yes, that Joe Dassin song is pretty epic and has some degree of merit. I don't support Abba for PA, but I don't think the suggestion as ludicrous/ laughable as some others. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:16
------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:21
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"Don't let your meat loaf, ha ha ha." Frank Zappa
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 14:29
Absolutely, of course. If it did I might offer support for ABBA in Prog-Related (or if we were a track-based rather than album-based resource). The ABBA suggester did provide other music he thought worthy. LATE EDIT: Actually, one song can make an album, especially if it's an album length song. |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 15:43
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I think that Meat Loaf is, generally spoken, just a bit more prog related than the Talking Heads, who have been added recently. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 17 2010 at 15:50
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I like Meat Loaf the most in The Rocky Horror Picture Show: |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 10:25
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How Jagger said "It's only rock and roll but I like it". Having 12 minutes songs doesn't always mean progressive. I agree about Talking Heads. If they are on PA who's next? Echo and the bunnymen? ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 10:49
| ''We're doomed, captain! Doomed!'' |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 14:31
Tom Tom Club and Television, maybe. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:07
Nah not Tom Tom Club. Silly little one liner comments and still no justification to Admin for Meatloaf. If those interested are not going to make a case and just flame, we have a Just For Fun section too ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:11
I think Jim Steinman should be in prog related. Meat Loaf is just a singer and really has nothing to do with his music. If you listen to his non-Steinman albums they are terrible generic rock. ------------- 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:35
I'm hardly proposing Tom Tom Club, but it is Talking Heads related. Television might have a case, but we are getting off topic. I say let people have their fun. By the way, let's not forget that one of the admin posted in this thread.
An admin can propose if they want to, but there is a concern in regards to the opposition, and any flaming is an indication of how people feel. So it's not just a matter of justifying it to admin, since an admin has already expressed that he feels that there is justification by showing support (as I see it) -- of course other admin may disagree --, but also to placate (justify it to) the opposition. If people care enough for and against, then maybe there will be some good debate here. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 15:55
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I wouldn't really mind seeing Meat Loaf in here, alongside Jim Steinman's own solo output and some of the other projects he spearheaded. Not particular strong candidates for related as far as I'm concerned, but they are examples of prog related material even if diluted, and such an addition would most likely give the site more traffic as a side effect. The strongest points for this case is the time period. The 80's were barren for prog and prog related both, and seen in that context an addition isn't that farfetched. Especially in light of the revised guidelines for the related part of the database. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 16:05
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I have my Exivious, I have my Comus, I have my Univers Zero, I have my Khan, I have my Ohm, my Devy, and of course Genesis....and.... Meat Loaf.
 That's how this thread makes me feel.
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Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 16:17
I don't know if this comment was in part directed at me but I'll explain my own silly little one liner. A couple of previous posts seemed to be questioning the addition of Talking Heads to PA. My remark is a quote from Dad's Army (an old British sitcom, if you're not aware of it) whereby the Scottish character responds pessimistically to every minor setback. I'm a Talking Heads fan and I was being ironic that the site was somehow doomed because of the addition of Talking Heads. I hope that clears that up.
Are we not allowed a joke around here, or is this thread precious? You yourself encouraged a self-confessed troll to post in the Atheism thread not so long ago. Or is it only certain people that can do that?
I'm really getting fed up with people jumping down others' throats around here.
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Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 16:22
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^ The old if X is here why not Y without any justification was pissing me off. If I missed Dad's Army my apologies. I am just amazed that so much desire for an artists inclusion results in zero justification to admin by whoever....is motivated
A bit like wanting to drive from Austin to Denver without stopping for gas..... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 16:50
| If I had the will, I would quote posts from the previous four threads proposing Meatloaf categorised into "for" and "against". I was against it based on my youtube listening of Bat Out of Hell. And the big problem with so many of the "The old if X is here why not Y" comments is that they are apples and oranges comparisons (not sufficiently relevant). |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 16:55
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Personally, I think apples and oranges are pretty similar, in the grand scheme of things. That's why I always say "Apples to Airplanes" instead.
-------------
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 17:08
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Yeah, that's true. As I sometimes have liked to say to people who say you can't compare apples and oranges: ridiculous, they are both fruit and they're both delicious, and that's just a start. At least most people don't compare apples to airplanes here, though one could (they compare varieties of music rather than really different things, but the closer the comparison usually the better for justification purposes). I usually say it's better to compare apples and apples, or at least limes and lemons, than apples and oranges for justification purposes (the case should be sufficiently relevant). |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 17:53
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Apples and Airplanes - both respect gravity and neither can be used to milk a goat. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:19
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A sheep is not a creature of the air. Beware of flying apples though. So, on a tangent, if you like meatloaf, what do you like in your meatloaf? So we've had MeatLoaf, Cooper, and Talking Heads brought up. I personally don't mind the whole "if X is here Y should be" if defended further. Of course, when it comes to these three artists, one I know quite well, the other two primarily by name. I'd been advocating for TH inclusion for a while and am glad to see them here. In the end, if you are going to open a thread about an addition, make your case when you do or don't open a thread. Not directed at anyone in particular. I see Lynx opened a thread and just buggered off so far. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:29
Yuck! I hate that stuff... I had to eat it the other night for dinner!  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:32
OK, I'm not going to insult whoever made the stuff you had, but if you go non-traditional, it can be really good. Your standard cafeteria style is guaranteed to be horrid. Unless you add the sweat of a big fat guy... ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 18:39
Standard cafeteria stuff = disgusting  However, the more progressive cooking styles should be in symphonic.  -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 20:20
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In first place I must say I'm probably the biggest Meat Loaf fan here, so my opinion isn't tainted by prejudice and/or dislike, so being absolutely familiar with their music, will give my arguments against the inclusion with absolute confidence of impartiality: 1.- The Meat Loaf & Steinman collaboration must be credited as the pioneers of Wagnerian Rock, but not all Rock directly or indirectly related with Classical music is Prog. 2.- Meat Loaf & Steinman's music is much more elaborate and complex than most mainstream and even many Prog musicians, but in no way complexity is a synonym of Prog. 3.- Meat Loaf music is clearly related with Rock Opera, but again, Rock Opera or theatrics are not exclusive of Prog. As a fact (well IMHO) Meatloaf is an excellent example of melodic Hard Rock with some Metal connections and an elaborate structure but in no way Prog, even when I would be glad to review the music of the band/artist, his inclusion would imply the addition of other artists as Yngwie Malmsteen and that would be misleading Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: September 20 2010 at 21:46
That's interesting to hear that you are a Meat Loaf fan. You clearly know your Meat Loaf. It should probably be put in the oven now. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: September 21 2010 at 00:15
Good synthesys of what I think, too.  ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |