"Prog Goes Metal" vs. "Metal Goes Prog"
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70562
Printed Date: December 01 2024 at 21:38
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Topic: "Prog Goes Metal" vs. "Metal Goes Prog"
Posted By: Anthony H.
Subject: "Prog Goes Metal" vs. "Metal Goes Prog"
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 21:27
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While listening to various progressive metal bands, I've noticed two distinct sub-types within the genre: 1) Progressive rock meets metal (Dream Theater, Pain of Salvation, Ayreon, Riverside) 2) Metal meets progressive rock (Symphony X, Psychotic Waltz, Shadow Gallery, Pagan's Mind) I consider both equally progressive. Who else thinks this is a valid way of looking at the genre? -------------  |
Replies:
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 21:56
| aye maybe |
Posted By: watchmen
Date Posted: August 21 2010 at 22:12
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Maybe, like Triceratopsoil said, but I think that Shadow Gallery is more "prog goes metal" than "metal goes prog"; at least their first album is more in that way. ------------- 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 03:54
Since metal is an established and defined genre, it's the first approach that is, at least in theory, more progressive. Except, prog goes metal to me really means stuff like Red, Larks Tongue In Aspic PtII, Pantagruel's Nativity and so on. I cannot really draw such a significant line of distinction between say DT and SX. DT have become more and more metalized over the years, but even from the beginning the main difference between them and SX was that DT's base was the more commercial and mainstream 80s hair metal and to an extent heavy metal, with some influence of Metallica in the riffs where SX's was traditional and power metal. However, the base for both was clearly metal to begin with and not progressive rock. PoS are a step away from what you describe in some songs and ACT get even closer and er, they get called eclectic prog. 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 05:43
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There's also "extreme metal guys go avantgarde" or "black metal guys add folk instruments to their sh*t"  |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 05:48
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watchmen wrote:Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 06:18
I would say that the first categoriy is more progressive, more complex compare to the second category. I prefer the first one, obviously... |
Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 07:10
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All I know is, it's two great tastes that taste great together. ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: dtd350
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 09:36
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^Agreed, but I am a metal head as well as a progressive rock adict so maybe my opinions are a bit skewed where as someone who likes the classic rock and progressive rock end of things and metal might be a bit much for them would dislike these genres. I agree with the OP as well. I think all these artists are progressive within their prespective sub-genres. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/dtd350 |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 09:47
| Hmm, I am a metalhead and barring the absolute top tier of prog metal, it doesn't do much for me. I would rephrase what you said and say that at least to like the melodic side of prog metal, you need to like 80s hair/glam metal or even 80s pop rock like Toto a lot. I do like some aspects of Toto, but it's not my favourite kind of music and that kind of slick, over-conscious mode of expression doesn't agree with me. Unfortunately, it's a very pervasive element of prog metal where metal is brutal (pun intended) abandon. |
Posted By: Niv
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 10:22
Maybe it's too late at night, but I found that hilarious! -------------  |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 11:08
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^ it wasn't a joke, try Unexpect / Meshuggah on one side and Negura Bunget on the other and you'll see it was just an honest description!
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Posted By: TheOppenheimer
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 11:31
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i find the first (prog meets metal) to be more prog, complex, fluent and balanced while i find the second (metal meets prog) too metal-ish, with some prog influences anyway, i really like both genres, and none is better than the other. ------------- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio. |
Posted By: Niv
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:13
I'll have to do that in daylight hours then  ------------- |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 13:40
word |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 17:30
My favorites! ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 17:40
Well, it's somewhat valid, but very vague. Also keep in mind that you've only mentioned traditional prog metal bands there. You're completely forgetting about the prog incarnations of death metal, black metal, avant metal, industrial metal, doom metal, folk metal, goth metal, etc. etc. etc... It's valid when you're saying something like "this band is first and foremost a metal band, but they have quite a few prog influences" or vice versa. Otherwise, it's a pretty poor way of describing a band IMO. ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: tuxon
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:00
This sums it up IMO, couldn't agree more
progressive metal bands are firsty and foremost metal bands, with progressive as secondary genre
progressive rock bands are first and foremost rock bands, with progressive as secondary annotation.
and a little overlap between rock and metal is to be expected as metal is rock, just more metalic ------------- I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT |
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:29
They all seem more progressive to me.
Metal meets progressive rock would most likely be post-Human Death, Portal, Opeth, Edge of Sanity, Atheist, Negura Bunget or Cynic... ------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 18:45
Meshuggah, Gorguts |
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 19:22
So just because these bands are more extreme than traditional prog metal acts, it means they aren't as progressive? Therein lies the problem with this entire concept. The bands mentioned are progressive death metal. Because they are progressive death metal, does that make them any less "prog"? I don't think so. With Death and Atheist this is somewhat true (they are first and foremost death/thrash bands), but the others are either pure progressive death metal or progressive black metal. -------------
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 19:25
| You've got it backwards; they're not less progressive, just more metal |
Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 22:14
Very much agreement. ------------- |
Posted By: JJLehto
Date Posted: August 22 2010 at 22:17
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I think it's a valid way to look at it. I often said I could never decide if "prog metal" is a subset of progressive rock, or metal. I think it's just a bridge. So your view is accurate IMO. Some bands are clearly metal /w prog while others are more prog w/ some metal |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:10
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Yeah, I think the "VS" in the name of the thread is bad. This is music, why there should be an antagonism or fight. Metalheads love prog metal, Progfreaks love prog metal... is always a win...
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Posted By: Anthony H.
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 10:28
I didn't mean it like that. I simply used "vs." to illustrate the difference between the two. ------------- |
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 17:13
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The way I look at it rather simple. Prog/Tech/Experimental Metal bands/artists take progressive rock influences, and apply them to metal influences. The resulting music is a fusion of such styles. There's not one single true arbiter of influence, they are as varied as the base prog/experimental music itself. |
Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 17:53
THIS
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 18:43
I would think that the fact that things are metal have absolutely nothing with "progressive" at all ... and in the cases of some of your examples, a long cut does not "progressive" make, although it seems to define some of this metal stuff.
I don't consider DT progressive anymore. Specially after doing a loud impression of a cheap rock band without keyboards and bass on a stage! That is inexcusable and only says that they do not have enough care to the quality of the music they are putting out ... they are playing something, but you can't hear 2 of them!
Shadow Gallery is a bit of a different story ... and I am hoping, like a friend of mine, that Labrie leaves DT and joins Shadow Gallery, since DT is now just metal for metal's sakes on any stage and they obviously don't know any better when they are on the road ... that is not the quality that one would expect from a band that cares deeply about their music and what it is about! DT's time is over as long as they do not know how to involve their keyboard player and bass player ... and singer!
The problem I have with "metal" is that for the most part it is nothing but loudness with an effect in the guitar or what not ... and in the end, if you were smart enough to turn off the effect you have ... the same thing that was there before ... exactly the same ... and after a while it is not worth it anymore. And some of these are trying to make themselves relevant by singing about something important ... that's so original! Let me go to the bathroom now!
All in all, if the only reason you, or I, listen to these things is because it is "metal" ... or because it is "progressive" ... I really think that ... it's over! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: danielfortin
Date Posted: August 23 2010 at 20:44
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