General Music Discussions - Most Controversial/Persistant Nominees?

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Most Controversial/Persistant Nominees?

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Topic: Most Controversial/Persistant Nominees?

Posted By: Textbook
Subject: Most Controversial/Persistant Nominees?
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 15:15

Who are the bugbears of this section, the people that either keep getting suggested and knocked back, or get accepted only to have an ongoing grumbling of "WHAT? REALLY?" in response?

I've noticed Tori Amos and Bjork seem to have almost become running jokes in this regard, in that they are frequently suggested, but the admin has dug its heels in on the matter and they ain't getting in. There's old chestnuts like "Amos makes about the same music as Bush so how come Bush is in and Amos is out and its counterpart "LOOK, KATE BUSH'S MUSIC IS PROGRESSIVE BECAUSE SHE HAS BEEN IN A BUILDING AT THE SAME TIME AS DAVID GILMOUR PROBABLY". Any others?

Replies:

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:11

This really isnt the right section for this thread. But I'm at a loss to think where it should go. Any suggestions are welcome, but it won't be staying here for much longer.

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:13

General Music Discussions?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:23

done

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:25

^ hey i was just thinking aloud! LOL

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:26

I wondered what the funny noise was coming from the west.

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What?

Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:27

Judas Priest is one that always makes bad blood boil 'round these parts. One that I suggest again and again is Helloween - no one wants that to happen either.

Let's also not forget about the one uber-troll who would not let up on Korn and Stratovarious....

Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 17:52

Artsy stuff from new wave are is occasionally popping up, XTC for example. Also some borderline proggy AOR, such is Toto.

Phil Collins.

Some more elaborated Southern Rock bands.

Grateful Dead.

One that is not mentioned often (but it should be Evil Smile

) is Scott Walker!

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https://japanskipremijeri.bandcamp.com/album/perkusije-gospodine" rel="nofollow - Percussion, sir!

Posted By: Bitterblogger
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:31

Collins, easily. Others:

Mars Volta

Asia

Trevor Rabin

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:33

Someone argues that Mars Volta aren't prog? How does that work? Even if you hate them, they're clearly prog.

I notice hackles are raised when Coldplay gets mentioned.

Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:35

I need to check out som XTC

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:43

aginor wrote:

I need to check out som XTC

English Settlement is a good starting point.

If you like a bit of psyche pop then their side project Dukes Of The Stratosphere is worth a listen.

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What?

Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:45

OK will do, (I hope they have XTC albums at the local CD store, if they don't I will use the Internett

CDON or something)

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 18:48

Textbook wrote:

I notice hackles are raised when Coldplay gets mentioned.

And even though they aren't prog, they don't deserve it. They're still a good band.

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 19:34

It's clear a portion of the user base isn't comfortable with Muse either. I think they may just squeeze in but they're more prog influenced than full-on prog to me.

Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 19:39

The constant suggestion of new bands is perplexing.

Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 20:00

I'm not sure if Steely Dan qualifies for this thread, but "Aja" sure sounds like prog to me.

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"The pointy birds are pointy pointy
Anoint my head anointy nointy"
Steve Martin The Man With Two Brains

Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 20:03

^ Steely Dan is here. To the dismay, and jubilation, of many.

Thoughts on Velvet Underground? Proto?

Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 20:43

Textbook wrote:

It's clear a portion of the user base isn't comfortable with Muse either. I think they may just squeeze in but they're more prog influenced than full-on prog to me.

Or Iron Maiden or Metallica. It's strange, but I realized that many people were offended by addition of The Beatles on ProgArchives years ago. There were arguments like "This will never happen", or "Over my dead body". Now, things like Pepper or Abbey Road are completely normal thing to expect here.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14723&KW=the+beatles - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14723&KW=the+beatles

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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 21:02

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

The constant suggestion of new bands is perplexing.

And I thought that people should respond only when they have something interesting to tell.

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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 21:05

OK, I wanted to think a little bit, so I searched Suggest New Bands list for some of:

Here are some of
1)Well known names
2)Often suggested artists/bands
together with most suitable discussion.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62480&KW=Helloween - Helloween (4 times - we can expect them to being suggested at least once per year - Halloween)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68846&KW=Judas+Priest - Judas Priests (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53018&KW=Tori+Amos - Tori Amos (3 times - the last was your own suggestion, hehe - she has probably the biggest chance to get in)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8859&KW=Coldplay - Coldplay
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65173&KW=Phil+Collins - Phil Collins (4 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49333&KW=Grateful+Dead - Grateful Dead (4 times - again, your topic is here as well Textbook, so I'll choose old one)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60541&KW=Within+Temptation - Within Temptation (4 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17470&KW=tom+waits - Tom Waits (4 times) - funny thread, especially OP
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28302&KW=Bjork - Björk (4 times) http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68946&KW=Them+Crooked+Vultures -
Them Crooked Vultures (2 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45104&KW=Stevie+Wonder - Stevie Wonder (2 times - we all know new thread, so here is old one)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68439&KW=Gorillaz - Gorillaz - just once, but it was nice suggestion and one of the better ones
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29731&KW=Faith+No+More - Faith No More (2 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65542&KW=soundgarden - Soundgarden (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35474&KW=boston - Boston (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54143&KW=system - SoaD - 9 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51173&KW=John+Frusciante - John Frusciante - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53657&KW=Smashing+Pumpkins - Smashing Pumpkins - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15205&KW=Talking+Heads - Talking Heads - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45598&KW=30+Seconds+To+Mars - 30 Seconds To Mars - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48287&KW=Velvet+Underground - The Velvet Underground - 6 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66473&KW=Byrds - The Byrds - 5 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16806&KW=meatloaf - Meatloaf - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60608&KW=dylan - Bob Dylan - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21469&KW=rolling - The Rolling Stones - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64357&KW=Pete+Townshend - Pete Townshend - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20567&KW=UFO - UFO - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14718&KW=Stratovarius - Stratovarius - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60319&KW=Megadeth - Megadeth - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60626&KW=toto - Toto - 5 times - huh?
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63277&KW=Donovan - Donovan - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61932&KW=Sonata+Arctica - Sonata Arctica
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55145&KW=Scorpions - Scorpions - interesting discussion
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61934&KW=Annie+Haslam - Annie Haslam

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9667&KW=Buckethead - Buckethead old
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57900&KW=Buckethead - Buckethead new - 5 suggestions

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61848&KW=Buggles - Buggles
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60711&KW=Serge+Gainsbourg - Serge Gainsbourg
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48474&KW=avantasia - Avantasia - 2 times

Special guest:

Mars Hollow - suggested 4 times in 10 weeks (from April 1st to June 15th)

OK, I'll continue tomorrow. I kinda like this list. I think I'll consult it in future. So far, I traveled year back in past.

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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 21:16

I'm one of the people who tried to get Bob Dylan in here

He had two albums that may have been proto, but after listening to the rest of his output... Oh no...

Although The Velvet Underground could be proto...

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:11

System Of A Down are the record holders eh? Just being nominated nine times should suggest something's going on there. My opinion is they were evolving towards being a prog metal, but never quite got there. They could perhaps get in on influence.

They're not a bugbear but I personally would love to see Magazine here though I bet I never will.

I remember just recently, Nine Inch Nails getting in caused a bit of a stir. I'm a NIN fan but I still thought that was a strange call.

Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:26

Of course, to list some of my favorites I'd like to see here without making the case (mostly):
Tori Amos
Afro Celt Sound System
Allman Brothers, The
Badalamenti, Angelo
Bears, The
Buckethead
Budd, Harold
Carlos, Wendy (strictly for Beauty In the Beast)
Claypool, Les (here but needs his own category for the mess of projects he's made that were one outs)
Bruce Hampton (another one of the fighting weird Colonels)
Europa String Choir
Jackson, Joe
Johnson, Eric
Kuhn, Joachim
L. Subramanium/Stephane Grappelli and also /Larry Coryell
McLachlan, Sarah
Mitchell, Joni
Monade
Pere Ubu
Police, The (for the later albums)
Praxis
Arcana
Rhodes, Happy (new to me)
Rush (ow ow ow don't hit me Tongue

)
Stereolab
Sting
Summers, Andy
Talking Heads
Ten Seconds
Van Tieghem, David
XTC

I may have missed one or two that aren't on my list or slipped under the radar screen here.

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:28

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

The constant suggestion of new bands is PURPLEXING.

Based on the new avatar.

Ignore me- I'm in the cups again.

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https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays

Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:31

Textbook wrote:

System Of A Down are the record holders eh? Just being nominated nine times should suggest something's going on there. My opinion is they were evolving towards being a prog metal, but never quite got there. They could perhaps get in on influence.

They're not a bugbear but I personally would love to see Magazine here though I bet I never will.

I remember just recently, Nine Inch Nails getting in caused a bit of a stir. I'm a NIN fan but I still thought that was a strange call.

Yeah, it should suggest that the people posting the suggestion threads don't know how to use the forum's Search option. LOL

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http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:31

Epignosis wrote:

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

The constant suggestion of new bands is PURPLEXING.

Based on the new avatar.

Ignore me- I'm in the cups again.

Yes, we should shut it all down and start a revolution tossing out all the artist additions we don't agree on!!!! Tongue

Although the PURPLEXING is making really sleepy...

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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:34

SJ: Really now, who searches to find out if a similar thread has ever been made before they create a new one? I bet whoever they are they also index their socks.

Posted By: CinemaZebra
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:40

Textbook wrote:

SJ: Really now, who searches to find out if a similar thread has ever been made before they create a new one? I bet whoever they are they also index their socks.

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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:42

Textbook wrote:

SJ: Really now, who searches to find out if a similar thread has ever been made before they create a new one? I bet whoever they are they also index their socks.

Before I suggested Claudio Rocchi I used PA's search and Googles "site:progarchives.com" search. Just sayin'.

Oh silly me, I've put sock 36G in sock 26G's spot. Wacko

Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: July 12 2010 at 22:56

CinemaZebra wrote:

Textbook wrote:

SJ: Really now, who searches to find out if a similar thread has ever been made before they create a new one? I bet whoever they are they also index their socks.

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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 03:34

Marty McFly wrote:

OK, I wanted to think a little bit, so I searched Suggest New Bands list for some of:

Here are some of
1)Well known names
2)Often suggested artists/bands
together with most suitable discussion.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62480&KW=Helloween - Helloween (4 times - we can expect them to being suggested at least once per year - Halloween)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68846&KW=Judas+Priest - Judas Priests (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53018&KW=Tori+Amos - Tori Amos (3 times - the last was your own suggestion, hehe - she has probably the biggest chance to get in)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8859&KW=Coldplay - Coldplay
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65173&KW=Phil+Collins - Phil Collins (4 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=49333&KW=Grateful+Dead - Grateful Dead (4 times - again, your topic is here as well Textbook, so I'll choose old one)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60541&KW=Within+Temptation - Within Temptation (4 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17470&KW=tom+waits - Tom Waits (4 times) - funny thread, especially OP
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28302&KW=Bjork - Björk (4 times) http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68946&KW=Them+Crooked+Vultures -
Them Crooked Vultures (2 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45104&KW=Stevie+Wonder - Stevie Wonder (2 times - we all know new thread, so here is old one)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68439&KW=Gorillaz - Gorillaz - just once, but it was nice suggestion and one of the better ones
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29731&KW=Faith+No+More - Faith No More (2 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65542&KW=soundgarden - Soundgarden (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35474&KW=boston - Boston (3 times)
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54143&KW=system - SoaD - 9 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=51173&KW=John+Frusciante - John Frusciante - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53657&KW=Smashing+Pumpkins - Smashing Pumpkins - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15205&KW=Talking+Heads - Talking Heads - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=45598&KW=30+Seconds+To+Mars - 30 Seconds To Mars - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48287&KW=Velvet+Underground - The Velvet Underground - 6 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66473&KW=Byrds - The Byrds - 5 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16806&KW=meatloaf - Meatloaf - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60608&KW=dylan - Bob Dylan - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=21469&KW=rolling - The Rolling Stones - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64357&KW=Pete+Townshend - Pete Townshend - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20567&KW=UFO - UFO - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14718&KW=Stratovarius - Stratovarius - 4 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60319&KW=Megadeth - Megadeth - 3 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60626&KW=toto - Toto - 5 times - huh?
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63277&KW=Donovan - Donovan - 2 times
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61932&KW=Sonata+Arctica - Sonata Arctica
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55145&KW=Scorpions - Scorpions - interesting discussion
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61934&KW=Annie+Haslam - Annie Haslam

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9667&KW=Buckethead - Buckethead old
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57900&KW=Buckethead - Buckethead new - 5 suggestions

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=61848&KW=Buggles - Buggles
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60711&KW=Serge+Gainsbourg - Serge Gainsbourg
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48474&KW=avantasia - Avantasia - 2 times

Special guest:

Mars Hollow - suggested 4 times in 10 weeks (from April 1st to June 15th)

I think seriously the only bands worth considering from the exhausting list here are:

System of a Down - I have Hypnotise and mesmirise and they are very proggish - perhaps like NIN

The Byrds - more psychedelic but highly influential like all the late 60s psych bands.

Soundgarden - Superunknown is an incredible prog album but the band has been denied due to later non prog albums.

Within Temptation - in the same vein as Nightwish, After Forever and Epica - its the old operatic female vocal with metal guitars. Same style but totally rejected.

The rest really do not fit in to the prog genre easily. Prog related if anything, and thats pushing the boundaries for some of those artists (Tom Waits, Phil Collins, Coldplay), but we dont want a site full of Prog Related material as thats not what the site is here for.

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Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 03:43

Soundgarden? Really? And yes I'm a fan but they're not prog. I'd put in Pearl Jam before them due to their tendency to do bizarre experimental tracks and odd genre jaunts and tribal numbers but I would also add that I wouldn't even put Pearl Jam in to begin with, I'm just illustrating how surprised I am by the Soundgarden talk.

What about Magazine? Have you guys even heard Real Life? I really think the gang here would like it.

Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 04:50

Nice finds, Marty! Thumbs Up

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 06:33

Textbook wrote:

What about Magazine? Have you guys even heard Real Life? I really think the gang here would like it.

"Superunknown" by SG has those fantastic arrangements and the time sig excellence of 'Spoonman' as well as 'fell on Black Days' 'Superunknown' and a few others that really bend muscial time sigs to the max, I just love that album. I reviewed it on Metalmusicarchives.

Pearl Jam? hmmm, that's feasible.... I loved Even Flow and Alive but admit I havent heard much apart from these. They are easy to get hold of at the library. Which album do you recommend as i am open to new prog as long as its prog that is.

I heard 'Ten' is great and their latest.

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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 06:44

Marty McFly wrote:

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

The constant suggestion of new bands is perplexing.

And I thought that people should respond only when they have something interesting to tell.

Hell no!

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 07:11

ACR: I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly prog. I wouldn't have them on PA. I was just illustrating how unprog I think Soundgarden are.

Anyway in my opinion PJ have never done a terrible album, but they only have one masterpiece- Ten. Their entire discography is worth soldiering through if you want to see probably the best pre-Radiohead example there is of a band turning away from commercial pressure to just do their own thing. On their second to fourth albums you can almost hear them deliberately chasing fans away with some of the things they do. After that they relax a little bit but the oddness doesn't quite ever depart. Their last two records have been a lot more accessible (and better for it imo- kudos to PJ for daring to release their infamous experimental tracks on their albums but very few of them are good music) as I think Vedder has calmed down and is just making music he and his fans will like instead of trying to prove something with each LP as he did in the past.

Check out this thread of mine for info and samples- I should update it with review of fourth LP No Code soon.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68825 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68825

Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 07:12

Dean wrote:

aginor wrote:

I need to check out som XTC

English Settlement is a good starting point.

Another thing aginor needs to check out is http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&client=firefox-a&hs=Zdz&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&q=English+Spell+check&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= - English Spellcheck (please).

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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 07:13

Rocktopus wrote:

Dean wrote:

aginor wrote:

I need to check out som XTC

English Settlement is a good starting point.

Thats rather good. LOL

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 07:20

Stratovarius springs to mind as one proposal that went on and on (and on).

Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 08:14

A Perect Circle gets occasionally suggested too.

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https://japanskipremijeri.bandcamp.com/album/perkusije-gospodine" rel="nofollow - Percussion, sir!

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 08:15

Metallica.........that one went on for years.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 08:18

I remember Dire Straits has been suggested a few times (obviously always by IDIOTS who don't know what PROG is and only listen to POP...) by a few people and met with a combination of reasonable, calm reservation and hysterical, visceral RAGE and text walls. I don't know, I can understand disagreeing with the suggestion but the lengths that some went to to try and misrepresent and discredit arguments and even to try to prevent any further discussion are incomprehensible to me. I can't imagine caring all that much about something not really 'prog' being on the site.

Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 16:58

Of course, Dire Straits cannot be considered Prog. Some suggestions are doomed from beginning, but some of them gained big support. Like System of a Down.

Maybe some of you are against SoaD being added. But those who support them are here too. My personal opinion is that they would be good for, let's say Crossover Prog. Not so typical band, eh ?

harmonium.ro wrote:

Nice finds, Marty! Thumbs Up

Thanks to you.

And all others who like my findings.

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Mars Hollow - suggested 4 times in 10 weeks (from April 1st to June 15th)

I think seriously the only bands worth considering from the exhausting list here are:

System of a Down - I have Hypnotise and mesmirise and they are very proggish - perhaps like NIN

The Byrds - more psychedelic but highly influential like all the late 60s psych bands.

Soundgarden - Superunknown is an incredible prog album but the band has been denied due to later non prog albums.

Within Temptation - in the same vein as Nightwish, After Forever and Epica - its the old operatic female vocal with metal guitars. Same style but totally rejected.

The Byrds, I think that they are worth too.

SoaD, indeed.

Prog-Related ? It's not problem, really. I expect that about 2-3% of albums on PA are in this category (+ Proto-Prog). It's not that much.

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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:00

Marty McFly wrote:

Of course, Dire Straits cannot be considered Prog. Some suggestions are doomed from beginning, but some of them gained big support. Like System of a Down.

Maybe some of you are against SoaD being added. But those who support them are here too. My personal opinion is that they would be good for, let's say Crossover Prog. Not so typical band, eh ?

Why cannot Dire Straits be considered prog...or at least Prog Related? When i listen to Love Over Gold...I hear Prog!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:03

Snow Dog, I like to see the Warren Zevon in your sig, that's good stuff

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:06

The Truth wrote:

Snow Dog, I like to see the Warren Zevon in your sig, that's good stuff

Shame he died. Great man. But i can't talk to you anymore. Just who is that girl?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:07

It's canadian actress Ellen Page

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:10

Don't know her....whats she been in?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:11

She's famous for Juno and is in the newer movie Inception. She's also the spokesperson for Cisco I believe... But I just think she's cute

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:14

^ She was on Johnathon Woss last Friday - she can juggle too.

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What?

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:15

The Truth wrote:

She's famous for Juno and is in the newer movie Inception. She's also the spokesperson for Cisco I believe... But I just think she's cute

Is she that tiny actress? If so i saw her on Jonathan Ross on Friday night with Penn and Teller.

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:16

Yeah she's only like 5'4 I think...

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:17

Dean wrote:

^ She was on Johnathon Woss last Friday - she can juggle too.

I'm sure she can

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:17

The Truth wrote:

Yeah she's only like 5'4 I think...

..and looks about 16, but she's about 23 isn't she?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:19

Dean wrote:

^ She was on Johnathon Woss last Friday - she can juggle too.

Totally missed your post Deano!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:22

Snow Dog wrote:

The Truth wrote:

Yeah she's only like 5'4 I think...

..and looks about 16, but she's about 23 isn't she?

No idea, I'm just an admirer.

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http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 17:23

The Truth wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

The Truth wrote:

Yeah she's only like 5'4 I think...

..and looks about 16, but she's about 23 isn't she?

No idea, I'm just an admirer.

According to Wikipedia she's 23. Smile

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 13 2010 at 19:33

Ellen Page for Progressive Hotties.

Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 03:20

I nominate Wynona Rider as the most persistent female item from the Just For Fun section.

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 03:36

I totally think we should have a Progressive Hotness genre. You know, women who transcend the normal conventions of beauty and take it to bold new places. Grace Jones and so on.

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 10:32

Snow Dog wrote:

Marty McFly wrote:

Of course, Dire Straits cannot be considered Prog. Some suggestions are doomed from beginning, but some of them gained big support. Like System of a Down.

Maybe some of you are against SoaD being added. But those who support them are here too. My personal opinion is that they would be good for, let's say Crossover Prog. Not so typical band, eh ?

Why cannot Dire Straits be considered prog...or at least Prog Related? When i listen to Love Over Gold...I hear Prog!

Um... well, if Dire Straits get in, then so will The Police. And Malaysia will fall to communism.

Also, I love the way this thread has gone LOL

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 10:41

TGM: Orb wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

Marty McFly wrote:

Of course, Dire Straits cannot be considered Prog. Some suggestions are doomed from beginning, but some of them gained big support. Like System of a Down.

Maybe some of you are against SoaD being added. But those who support them are here too. My personal opinion is that they would be good for, let's say Crossover Prog. Not so typical band, eh ?

Why cannot Dire Straits be considered prog...or at least Prog Related? When i listen to Love Over Gold...I hear Prog!

Um... well, if Dire Straits get in, then so will The Police. And Malaysia will fall to communism.

Also, I love the way this thread has gone LOL

I don't see the connection between Dire Straits and The Police. Confused

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 15:38

Me neither, but apparently that's how it works...

Posted By: Marty McFly
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 17:50

OK, I agree that it's still subjective. But isn't everything subjective ? Truth also isn't one, there are more truths. In fact, as much "truths" as human beings. And I'm not even talking about case when someone changes his mind. Then hell freezes over or something like that. :-D

But some bands are more Prog than others, aren't they ?

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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

-Andyman1125 on Lulu

Even my

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 17:54

Marty McFly wrote:

But some bands are more Prog than others, aren't they ?

Of Course...thats why the edges are blurred...its all about degrees....when does something "suddenly" become not prog?

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 18:28

There certainly is a domino effect here. If you let a band that isn't all that prog in, it really does make it easier for other not-so-prog acts to slip in. I mean that's really how the whole power metal genre slipped in, on the "well if THAT is in, then THIS must be in" tip.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 18:57

^ can you elaborate on the domino effect wrt to "the whole" power metal genre being here, because a) I don't think it did and b) it isn't.

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What?

Posted By: Textbook
Date Posted: July 14 2010 at 19:13

Well it's not an objective thing so you may well disagree. But I know some people here find Epika, Kamelot, Rhapsody Of Fire, Nightwish etc etc etc to not be progressive. But once one got let in, it seemed that all the others had to go in too.

Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: July 30 2010 at 08:50

Mars Hollow - suggested 4 times in 10 weeks (from April 1st to June 15th)

OK, I'll continue tomorrow. I kinda like this list. I think I'll consult it in future. So far, I traveled year back in past.

About SoAD, if for me you can write 10 Big smile

I'm the one who suggested Annie Haslam, but I was a newbie actually. I wouldn't suggest her now.

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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 07:29

bump

its such a great thread it doesn't deserve to be buried 45 pages down in the bowels of obscurity

Helloween should be added to Prog Related

I had to say that cos it must be stated by someone every month.

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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 14:42

Textbook wrote:

What about Magazine? Have you guys even heard Real Life? I really think the gang here would like it.

I recall reading an article in a Modern Drummer magazine which listed Soundgarden's drummer as one of the ten best progressive rock drummers or some such thing. Just saying.

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Posted By: Andy Webb
Date Posted: December 07 2010 at 15:53

Even in my short time here, I think ive seen stratovarious get suggested at least twice, and people have said they were before too!

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http://ow.ly/8ymqg" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: December 09 2010 at 12:28

Every couple of years I lobby to get Nurse With Wound on here. I think the main reason they're not is that no one (including me) wants to wrestle with their discography.

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Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: December 09 2010 at 17:55

Slartibartfast wrote:

Of course, to list some of my favorites I'd like to see here without making the case (mostly):
McLachlan, Sarah
Rhodes, Happy (new to me)

Like I said last week, I'd say YES to Happy in a heartbeat. I think her work speaks for itself. She has connections to artists already in the archives and was influenced by artists in the archives. IMO, she would fit right in Crossover given what has been approved recently (and I say that positively) . :)

As for Sarah, I'm familiar with most of her output, I'd guess that Solace or Touch would be the prime reasons she would be nominated. I've always thought that Touch sounded somewhat prog-influenced, but neither album is very close to crossing my prog threshold, or "phold", as I like to call it ;)

Posted By: AmericanProgster
Date Posted: February 20 2011 at 05:00

Bump (just for the hell of it).

Another group that wasn't mentioned in this thread was Angel. They've been suggested more than 3 times (most of them by me, just see my sig). First two albums are great examples of when 70s hard rock/metal crossed over to prog. But alas, every single time their suggested they get shot down as a glam group. sigh the ignorance of it all! LOL

JK. Sorta...

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https://dawnapproach.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - https://dawnapproach.bandcamp.com/

https://soundcloud.com/dawn-approach" rel="nofollow - https://soundcloud.com/dawn-approach

Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: February 20 2011 at 08:11

You need to find a copy of "Punky's Whips" by Zappa.

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Trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 21 2011 at 08:57

Textbook wrote:

Well it's not an objective thing so you may well disagree. But I know some people here find Epika, Kamelot, Rhapsody Of Fire, Nightwish etc etc etc to not be progressive. But once one got let in, it seemed that all the others had to go in too.

As far as I can see, only Epika was voted on, and they got in by the smallest possible margin.
The other bands were never voted on but were added when everybody could add bands.

So they can't be used as a precedent and frankly I don't know who "all the others" are you refer to.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: February 21 2011 at 12:22

Bonnek wrote:

As far as I can see, only Epika was voted on, and they got in by the smallest possible margin.
The other bands were never voted on but were added when everybody could add bands.

So they can't be used as a precedent and frankly I don't know who "all the others" are you refer to.

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

I don't care because I don't care about prog metal, but I hope you can see how frustrating this is to people who do care. I only learned of the Nightwish situation recently, but it is mindboggling (to me, anyway) that there are prog metal bands that the the Prog Metal Team (apparently) universally thinks should not be in prog metal. The headaches you have caused yourselves just to save a few reviews people wrote years ago, which they could repost at countless other websites if they didn't want their work to be "wasted"...

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if you own a sodastream i hate you

Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: February 22 2011 at 00:12

clarke2001 wrote:

Artsy stuff from new wave are is occasionally popping up, XTC for example. Also some borderline proggy AOR, such is Toto.

Phil Collins.

Some more elaborated Southern Rock bands.

Grateful Dead.

One that is not mentioned often (but it should be Evil Smile

) is Scott Walker!

Scott Walker, YES!!!

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: February 22 2011 at 05:19

I mention this every year and havent done so in 2011 yet so here we go

*clears throat*

GARY NUMAN FOR PROG RELATED!

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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 23 2011 at 04:54

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

For the record, I was only voicing my own opinion and I have no idea if there would be a consensus about this or what the admin team thinks of those headaches...
I think I'll put this up for discussion some time but right now we have more urgent matters, frustrating as the situation may be.

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 23 2011 at 11:06

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

I have always disagreed with the site's stance on this matter. Once a band is in, it is a solid indication of its being prog, no ifs, no buts. Whatever be the reasoning behind it, if a band is later not believed to be prog or large sections of collabs don't think it is and it still happens to be on the database, it is quite frankly a ridiculous situation. If, when a band is being suggested, the presence of some bands from ostensibly the same sub genre cannot be used as an argument in their favour, then whether a band in the database should really be here should also be up for re-evaluation because to reject the "X-Y argument" is to tacitly accept that there is room for doubt over whether even the bands already included in the database are really prog at all. Further, since the website seems to believe prog can only described through indicators and not defined in exact words, the fact that some bands have been voted as prog by the website previously is a sound argument for a fresh suggestion if strong similarities between the suggested band and the bands already present in the database can be demonstrated. Yeah, I know what the site's policy is and that I have to accept it, blah blah, but I still have to say that it doesn't make sense at all and lacks consistency and logic.

Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: February 23 2011 at 13:09

rogerthat wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

I agree. I get that the idea is to evaluate a band based on its own merits, not by a comparison to another band, but when there's an artist that obviously comes from the same sub-genre with similar influences, a similar approach to composition, a similar style of playing, etc... and then they're rejected while the other artist is already in, well, it kind of feels like an elephant in the room. Especially if they're bands that the admins and genre teams didn't approve and likely wouldn't approve if they were suggested today.

IMO the best way to solve the issue of these "legacy" bands is to just put them up for evaluation and delete the ones that don't get approved, but that's up to the admins and teams, of course.

Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 03:11

FunkyM wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

^^ Far too simplistic an idea to have them evaluated and then deleted. I personally object strongly to any such suggestion. Previous posters obviously dislike prog metal - oh sorry - some flavours of prog metal such as symphonic prog metal. Well - there are many of us out here in netland that like the admissions they way they are. Symphonic prog metal is an important part of the prog metal genre and imo, should be acknowledged as such Unhappy

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"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence"
- Robert Fripp

Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 03:46

Bonnek wrote:

For the record, I was only voicing my own opinion and I have no idea if there would be a consensus about this or what the admin team thinks of those headaches...
I think I'll put this up for discussion some time but right now we have more urgent matters, frustrating as the situation may be.

I'm just basing my perception on the opinions of you, T, Caio, HughesJB4, and what rushfan said in the Apocalyptica. I don't know either if everyone agrees, but even if you could marshal all the prog metal forces together, you probably wouldn't get anywhere. As far as I can tell it's nearly impossible to get anything deleted.

valravennz wrote:

It's the prog metal collabs who think "symphonic metal" is not prog metal, not I. I don't like prog metal, and I don't listen to it, so I am basing my statements off of the opinions of people who do.

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if you own a sodastream i hate you

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 06:18

Henry Plainview wrote:

Given virtually infinte time almost everything will be nearly deleted.

It's not easy to get bands deleted, but it's not difficult either. Admins cannot delete bands, only M@X has that power and a few bands have been deleted over the years. One notable case of course was My Dying Bride, who were re-added 4 years later.

And that's the nub of the matter - there is no consensus even amoungst the collabs and we have to find the underlying trend behind the he-who-shouts-loudest. All the contentious legacy bands have their albums reviewed and rated - most of those bands have 3 and 4-star averaging albums (if not all - too ~~lazy~~ busy to check, but certainly the three prog metal bands mentioned here have 4-star averaging albums in their discographies). While that isn't proof positive, it is an indication that this is not a clear-cut case for deletion - while people are giving 5-star ratings to albums as Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music, (which statistically at least 50% of the people must be to achive a 4-star averaging album), then the vast majority who reviewed/rated the album (ie gave 3,4 & 5 stars) believe the album to be progressive rock/metal. The case for deletion has to be pretty conclusive to override that opinion, and that is the "impossible" in your statement.

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What?

Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 06:49

^ Not sure if I would follow the same reasoning.
The ratings for those bands might indicate that they sit well with Prog Metal fans, but it doesn't make them Prog.

To give a non-metal example, I think The Stooges might be quite appreciated amongst Kraut fans and the rocking proggers but it wouldn't make them a sensible addition.

On a remark a few posts above, liking the bands or not has nothing ado with it (I quite like Kamelot), but the fact that they are here makes it hard to argue for me why we wouldn't allow Power Metal band XYZ.

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 06:55

Henry Plainview wrote:

valravennz wrote:

It's the prog metal collabs who think "symphonic metal" is not prog metal, not I. I don't like prog metal, and I don't listen to it, so I am basing my statements off of the opinions of people who do.

In the mystical Venn diagram between Power Metal, Symphonic Metal and Progressive Metal there will be intersections between sub-genres where some artists can exist and others do not. Pure Symphonic Metal (should a thing ever exist) can never be pure Progressive Metal (should a thing etc. etc) but some Symphonic Metal can be indistinguishable from some Progressive Metal.

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What?

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 07:06

Bonnek wrote:

^ Not sure if I would follow the same reasoning.
The ratings for those bands might indicate that they sit well with Prog Metal fans, but it doesn't make them Prog.

To give a non-metal example, I think The Stooges might be quite appreciated amongst Kraut fans and the rocking proggers but it wouldn't make them a sensible addition.

On a remark a few posts above, liking the bands or not has nothing ado with it (I quite like Kamelot), but the fact that they are here makes it hard to argue for me why we wouldn't allow Power Metal band XYZ.

Human nature has a lot to do with how an album is rated, and liking an album is often enough to gain it a few high ratings regardless of whether it is Prog or not, however I suspect that the majority "vote" would rate dependant upon its Prog quotient - and bear in mind I am refering to average ratings, not indivual opinion. So while Raw Power is a highly regarded album, I doubt it would achieve 4 or 5-star status on a Prog site.

The average ratings for each of the After Forever album is a case in point, where our ratings differ wildly from those on AllMusic or RYM (both sites give a fairly consistent 3.5 rating for all their albums, we don't).

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What?

Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 08:15

^ Aha, I see your logic now.
I guess I have the impression that people rather rate in accordance to how much they like an album and not how prog it is. It's probably a mix of both...

In support of your theory, over the last month, the PMT added about 40 bands and one of the most recognizably Prog of them (Wolfspring) just got its second review in a week, while much of the other bands have not been reviewed at all.

Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 08:19

valravennz wrote:

FunkyM wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

But why? I think a lot of those bands should remain (and hey, if it were up to me I'd have Within Temptation here too), but I'm afraid I don't see why these bands/albums should be exempt from the same evaluation process every other band goes through to gain a spot on PA. Just liking them and them being here before the rules were in place doesn't seem like a good enough reason, IMO.

If the admins/collabs have more important stuff to deal with though, I'm happy to leave them be. Smile

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 08:45

FunkyM wrote:

valravennz wrote:

FunkyM wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

The site is never going to be consistent because it is a collaboration, not only of the owner, 2 support Admins, 6 "ordinary" Admins, 86 SCs and 27 Collabs and 134 Prog Reviewer, but of all the 100s of members who suggest artists to add - each with their own interpretation of what "prog" is and what our admissions policy should be. Where those members are involved in, or have been involved in, the admissions evaluations, each applies their own criteria based upon personal predilection, understanding and interpretation derived from whatever guidance is provided by the sub-genre definitions, http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&title=site-policies-and-guidelines-artists-and-albums" rel="nofollow - site policies and the numerous essays listed in the PA's http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp" rel="nofollow - Prog Rock Guides - and of course from personal experience and knowledge. Since it is impossible to get a consensus from each of the 256 collaborators/reviewers for every single band suggested we have to accept that compromise is the only viable approach in this collaboration, and that compromise will result in inconsistency over time.

It could only ever be consistent if all the additions were down to one person, (and I'm sure there are many people would would love that power, but few [if any] who could carry the responsibility).

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What?

Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 13:00

Dean wrote:

FunkyM wrote:

valravennz wrote:

FunkyM wrote:

rogerthat wrote:

Henry Plainview wrote:

But not deleting them years ago is tacit approval by the administration, so it doesn't matter how they got here.

If anyone tells me Within Temptation should be here because After Forever and Nightwish are, I'd simply answer none of that lot should be here. Approve

It could only ever be consistent if all the additions were down to one person, (and I'm sure there are many people would would love that power, but few [if any] who could carry the responsibility).

Yeah, but this isn't a case of inconsistent approvals by the genre teams. These are bands that are on the site that were apparently never evaluated at all. That would seem to be exactly the opposite of what you describe above - rather than being on PA through a collaborative effort, these legacy bands are here because somebody added them before the rules were established.

Like I said, I have no problem with Nightwish (for example) being on PA. But I agree that having them listed under prog-metal will imply to those visiting the site that they meet the site's criteria for prog-metal and imply that prog-metal team considers them prog-metal.

If genre team members are saying that some bands are only in the PA because they never had to be evaluated, then I'm just suggesting that maybe they should be evaluated so people can settle the debate, that's all. If there's more important stuff to worry about, that's cool. Smile

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 13:16

FunkyM wrote:

Yeah, but this isn't a case of inconsistent approvals by the genre teams. These are bands that are on the site that were apparently never evaluated at all. That would seem to be exactly the opposite of what you describe above - rather than being on PA through a collaborative effort, these legacy bands are here because somebody added them before the rules were established.

Like I said, I have no problem with Nightwish (for example) being on PA. But I agree that having them listed under prog-metal will imply to those visiting the site that they meet the site's criteria for prog-metal and imply that prog-metal team considers them prog-metal.

If genre team members are saying that some bands are only in the PA because they never had to be evaluated, then I'm just suggesting that maybe they should be evaluated so people can settle the debate, that's all. If there's more important stuff to worry about, that's cool. Smile

No, if we do that for some legacy bands that some people think shouldn't be here then we have to do that for all bands added before the genre teams were established; and since the genre teams change as people come and go then would would have to do that everytime there is a team change. That is impractical and wrong. There was nothing inherrantly wrong with the pre-team system, those collaborators who added artists in those days were SCs, and therefore entrusted to add those artists - it was still a collaborative effort.

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What?

Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 13:40

Dean wrote:

I don't think there's any evidence that there'd be an impetus to reevaluate non-controversial legacy bands, but point taken. Smile

Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 13:44

FunkyM wrote:

Dean wrote:

I don't think there's any evidence that there'd be an impetus to reevaluate non-controversial legacy bands, but point taken. Smile

It has been questioned in the past on this forum whether Pink Floyd is prog. That makes them ( and Genesis, Yes, Tangerine Dream, Mike Oldfield, Jethro Tull, Dream Theater, etc., etc.) controversial in someone's estimation.

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What?

Posted By: Hawkwise
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 13:46

THE SENSATIONAL ALEX HARVEY BAND !!! about time they where here god damn it Angry

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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 23:29

I concur. In my general experience, and not just here but in discussing with musicians and listeners, prog metal people evaluate whether a band qualifies as prog metal or not in relation to metal and not the whole rock music umbrella. That imo works fine at say metal-archives where prog metal is a metal genre, but not here where it is a prog genre. Even though it is unintentional, it almost seems discriminatory to use a different yardstick for one sub. In a nutshell, what is prog metal for a metal database need not necessarily be prog metal as a prog rock sub genre on PA and if we say that it is, then even that jazz rock/fusion music which is not considered prog enough for PA would have a strong case, a lot of 60s psychedelic rock bands would have a strong case too. I am sure people are going to question that but if you do can you really convincingly argue for why Nightwish is undoubtedly prog rock on a website where Radiohead being prog has been accepted grudgingly and reluctantly. Now, if you think Nightwish is more prog than Radiohead, I rest my case. Big smile

It is easier to make a case for why Nightwish, at least at the time of the release of Oceanborn, was a little out of the norm in the metal scene but, if we look at it that way, what about Sabbath, Purple, Rainbow, Iron Maiden or Metallica's defining contributions to metal, all of which is slotted in prog related and not prog metal? What about Judas Priest's 70s albums, which aren't even on PA? If the argument is that they are not prog rock, it is not very difficult to argue against Nightwish that way either.

It is not necessary to delete them from the archives but at least the PM team's position on Nightwish has to be clarified and the idea that maybe they are prog enough for Prog Related but not Prog Metal could be considered. I feel that with Nightwish's presence in the archives, the case for rejecting say Stratovarius becomes much more difficult and flimsy (not that I personally want power metal in the prog metal sub, no). It is not logical to say Nightwish was accepted by a different set of collabs and nothing can be done about it now. If it's on the PM database, it has to be considered while evaluating new suggestions. I obviously don't mean ONLY the band being somewhat like Nightwish is justification enough. It should be consistent with the cross-section of bands in that sub but PM team members frequently go, "Don't bring up Nightwish". I don't think that makes sense.

Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: February 25 2011 at 23:40

WalterDigsTunes wrote:

The constant suggestion of new bands is perplexing.

lulz

And someone mentioned The Velvet Underground as proto! I concur!

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