You don't listen to prog...
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Topic: You don't listen to prog...
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Subject: You don't listen to prog...
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 10:58
You appreciate it.  ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Replies:
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:08
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I'm pretty sure that I listen to it. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:18
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My ears are in use so I must be listening to it. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:20
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I'm not appreciating the EYESTRINGS album i'm listening to right now. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:28
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I'm a multi-tasker. I can listen and appreciate at the same time.
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Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:41
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I'm not necessarily talking about the physical act of listening to the music, I'm just saying that it's a genre that must be appreciated not just listened to casually. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:49
And I'm just saying that's nonsense. -------------
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LastDaysofParadise wrote:Posted By: Makntak
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:01
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20,000+ combined posts Vs 10 - give the lad a break, he's just saying is all
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Whoever Controls Your Eyeballs Rules The World |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:06
How could I appreciate something I don't listen to? Or why would I listen to something I don't appreciate? 
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Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:13
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You're taking it on a literal sense. Obviously you listen to the music. What I'm trying to convey is that prog music is for those that can appreciate it and not just for the casual listener. Not many people only listen to one or two prog bands/albums and that's it. Generally people listen to a lot of prog bands. What I'm getting at is that the genre of progressive rock/metal is something that must be appreciated by the listener and not just listened to. I know everyone here appreciates the craftsmanship and time it takes to produce a prog album. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: Shevrzl
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:18
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Perhaps 'you don't hear prog, you listen to it' would have expressed what you wanted to say better? |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:19
What do you mean? Of course you can appreciate artists you don't particularly listen to. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:21
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I don't listen to prog... I LIVE PROG. ------------- "Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre |
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:23
Not quite. I know what I'm trying to say but perhaps my wording isn't the greatest for doing so. I'm just trying to say it's a complex genre that takes time to really get to know and love and that time takes appreciation of many different artists and their works. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:28
What do I appreciate in them if I haven't listened to their music? |
Posted By: Shevrzl
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:29
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Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:34
'particularly listen to' as in "not very often." ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:46
Basically, it takes work to appreciate all of the various intricate details that are coming out of your speakers while prog is playing. If you just hear it, you might just hear noise, but if you really listen than the work of art that is prog will really come to your ears and you will grow to appreciate it....or it may still just be noise.   ------------- 
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Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:50
Exactly. Also, to the average listener it may sound just like rock music, but to a trained ear it's a beautiful culmination of talent. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:50
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On the other hand, if a prog band plays in the forest and there is no one around to hear it do they really make a sound? -------------
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:55
There's a Zen Buddhist proverb about this, but I've forgotten what it was. I guess it was something like "That you don't hear a sound in a forest does not mean that there is no prog band playing there." |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:55
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One might say that one can't just hear prog to really appreciate it, one must really listen to it to appreciate it. There's been prog I didn't appreciate no matter how many times I heard it (or more correctly, despite having heard it many times), but maybe it's because I disliked it that I couldn't bring myself to really listen to it while hearing it (say a friend would always play it, and though I could have said For the love of God, turn it off!" or left the room, I didn't want to hurt that person's feelings). |
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 12:58
The band members would hear it so yes they would. If they're excluded, some animal would. If all the animals are dead, one can hope. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: Shevrzl
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:04
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this is like schrodinger's thought experiment... |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:07
I knew there was a flaw to using that saying. It reminded me of when I went to see Matt Parmenter from the band Discipline do a solo set at a bar. Unfortunately, I was the only patron there at the time. His bandmate from Discipline was also there, and the members of the second band were there setting up their equipment behind him. That is as near as I have come to the "if a prog band plays in the forest and noone is there to hear them" scenario.-------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:24
You were the only person in the audience the whole show? That's rough. What if you had left early? Would he have kept playing? ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:28
| i find for myself that the key to really listening to and appreciating music is to totally focus and concentrate on the music at hand-never combine any other mental or physical activity with it, and you will really find yourself at one with the music |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:33
That would be horrible music??? I mean no electricity in the woods to power the keyboards, synths, pedals, bass...vocals would be drowned out by drummer, he would have to scream the lyrics...hmmm sounds like Screamo metal. -------------   
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:33
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Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 13:34
Well said!
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 14:01
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There is certain music that i have to listen to carefully or with my full attention or i don't appreciate,but that's usually Chamber music or Rio/Avant. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Roy-Mus
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 14:03
... underwater. 
Besides that, I've listened to prog almost anywhere, anytime. And yes, toilet time and bath time are also included
PROG RULES!  ------------- I am you and what I see is ME! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 16:32
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Hi, I don't actually.
I LISTEN TO MUSIC! ... and labelling it is for xenophobics that can not hear something different! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 16:35
Or anyone listening to it!
Or as The Goons used to say ... "only idiots can hear it!" ... and Eccles pops right up! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 16:50
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Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 16:53
Sounds more like Jethro Tull's (collective) wet dream EDIT: I quoted the wrong post LOL |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 16:59
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I understand prog....
So when I listen to prog....
I appreciate prog.... -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 18:10
I'm pretty sure I don't come this site, write reviews, or post in the forums. Come to think of it I really don't appreciate prog at all and only listen to it out some twisted sense of obligation.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 20:38
I'm gonna be honest ... For a guy who is so opposed to the labelling of music, you spend a lot of time on a forum where people visit to discuss music that falls under a common label. XD (I do agree, however, that labelling music is overrated, but...*shrugs* it makes it easier to find more good music by it's association with music I like
 and a genre where uniqueness is glorified is one I can get behind. ) |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 20:51
I will never understand why so many people are upset about labels. All of language is just a labeling device. Can you imagine how difficult communication would be if there were no labels? "Pass me the stuff" "What stuff?" "You know, the stuff that changes the way other stuff tastes and, like, makes you thirsty." "You mean salt?" "I DON'T BELIEVE IN LABELS, MAN!" -------------
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Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 21:08
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It's true. I mean sure people can get caught up in labels, but they really do serve a useful purpose. Even music without labels would be almost impossible to communicate... "Hey man, I found a new band, you'd like them" "What do they sound like?" "They make, like, music, man. They sound like music." |
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 21:37
you got a giggle out me  |
Posted By: Iron Nate
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 11:04
| You don't listen to prog... when your girlfriend threatens to withhold sex if she hears "Thick as a brick" one more time. Until she gives it up at least. Then you listen to the whole thing again. Start to finish. |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 12:27
If would be nice to know what mechanisms in the brain cause one to "appreciate" music. We should have some neuroscientist put some electrodes on our head when listening to good prog music, and have them make a map of what parts of the brains fire up
 Then compare this with what happens when listening to some horrible pop music we hate.
Maybe it has been done? Anybody knows? ------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: Fieldofsorrow
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 12:38
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It's interesting all the talk about listening hard to truly 'get' prog. Not just in this thread, but in general. Sure, some can be a little hard to get into at first, but there is a wealth of progressive music out there that is instantly gratifying, and with a sub-genre like fusion especially, I find myself enjoying new material a lot the first time round without actually making that much effort.
------------- Groovy teenage rock with mild prog tendencies: http://www.myspace.com/omniabsenceband |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: April 28 2010 at 13:13
------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 15:18
If that's the case, yes, I appreciate it, but you must listen to appreciate music, so I would say I do both simultaneously. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 15:26
Why do you hate stuff so much? ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 15:34
Certainly it's much better if it's you who is hearing "thick as a brick" from the girl's lips. In my experience, telling girls "I'm a big, big boy" repeatedly didn't really get them in the mood either. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 17:26
The implication here is that Prog is deeper, less accessible and therefore somehow BETTER than other styles of music by virtue of these characteristics ? The Long and Winding Road by the Beatles is quite simple harmonically and lyrically, but is capable of moving me to tears every time I hear it (Does that make it better or worse than Prog ?) ------------- 
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Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 21:11
That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I'm merely implying that prog is more than just a form of music. Obviously it's music but the elements of it are very deep and rich. Of course there are other genres that are like this, but what I'm really getting at is that with prog it takes more than just an average listener to really get into the genre and to really appreciate it. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 30 2010 at 21:12
Oliver Sacks did http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/musicminds/ - it with Beethoven and Bach (he doesn't like Beethoven!?), so that's close enough. There's also a dreadful looking documentary on people struck by lightning on Netflix, but it claims to have Fred Frith play guitar in an MRI machine so that might be interesting from that angle.
I think after you get used to listening to "difficult" music it's not the same. When I first started listening to prog there were quite a few early listens I got nothing out of, but now I can't even think of any albums I listened to recently that I hated at first and then loved later. Maybe that is because I have so much music out there that I could listen to and the internet makes it easier to find significant samples that I tend not to bother with music I don't immediately enjoy. I'm not sure what effect, if any, this has had on my taste, but I've been getting progressively more avant-garde so it's certainly not condemning me to our dreaded shallow pop music. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 01:06
Define average listener. And to expand a little, and in a somewhat different direction, on ExittheLemming's point, there are Beatles songs that are more involved than some stuff that passes for prog today and yet they were hugely successful. I would say the same about Stevie Wonder's 70s output (his 80s stuff...  ). Another thing, I find Dave Brubeck's Time Out more immediate than a lot of prog per se, actually most prog, but the musicians's skills are fantastic, their playing expressive and rich in dynamics and the interaction between piano, saxophone and bass at levels of sophistication you don't hear, again, in some of today's prog or even some of the old stuff. What I am trying to say is perhaps the depth of the music and/or the awareness of the listener are not directly linked to how immediate the music is (and this may in fact be related to the quality of the songwriting). A lot of prog is not immediate and accessible BECAUSE it is not immediate and accessible. With perseverance, it proves more rewarding than generic rock/metal music but you would also find some great jazz or classical music that requires less coming-to-terms with. In essence, it is in the very nature of some prog rock that it would not be immediately appealing and would require getting around some quirks, that is just how the music is written...it may not have much to do with whether the listener is average. Yes, a typical rock/metal listener who does not like songs exceeding 4-5 minutes of length would find it hard to sit through prog epics but is there something in that one of the great prog rock bands Gentle Giant didn't have their own CTTE or Supper's Ready? |
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 10:04
An average listener would be someone that listens to what's popular and doesn't really consider the music or the lyrics as anything other than good because it's all they know. The Beatles got big because of those simple songs and catchy tunes. I can't really dwell deep into a conversation on them because I'm not well versed in their material, so I can't say that they did or did not have intricate songs. Consider this though, say like they had only intricate songs that were very complicated and deep...Would they have gotten so huge? Doubtful. The general public doesn't want music that's too hard to understand and get. For example, Rush's "Cygnus X-1 Book 2: Hemispheres" is a fairly lengthy song, but the complexity of it runs deep. It has a classical element of returning to a theme for transport between sections - as did Mussorgsky with "Pictures at an Exhibition" - and Geddy changes his vocals in order to change the part of which he is singing. I know there are plenty of genres with numerous artists that (have) produce(d) albums that are very complex and much more intricate than some prog. All I'm getting at here is that it takes times to cultivate an appreciation for the genre and for the listener to grow a bond with artists. It's not something you hear once and completely understand and it takes time for you and others to fully grasp what is going on during a song or record. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 10:20
Well, here's the catch...music can be catchy and easy to ABSORB while being full of intricacies within. I heard this piece for the first time when I was 10. I would revisit it when I was 16, somehow forgot about it for that much time , and it would take me no more than two listens to be able to enjoy it. Again, this is certainly at least as involved as typical prog material:I don't dispute that prog takes some coming to terms with. I am trying to put forth my views on why that is the case and that is not necessarily completely tied in with the amount of complexity involved, at least that's my take. It has more to do with that the emotional expression in prog is often not very direct (sometimes not very powerful either, sorry, has to be said). It took me a lot of listening to get a complete handle on the piece I have linked here but the emotional thrust was more immediate and easier for me to relate to it and this let me get drawn more and more into the song. Some of the well known prog rock bands are not very different...Yes, Genesis, ELP (ELP riding more on energy perhaps, but that nevertheless is a good hook too), perhaps this may be why they are relatively popular in prog circles. Much of the second tier or below of prog though is not so immediate and it's possible if I had been introduced to prog through those, I might have not been attracted so strongly to prog as I was through listening to these bands. Now because of the familiarity level established through listening to lot of prog, I am patient enough to persevere with prog because the chances of my liking it are generally high. This might PARTLY explain why jazz or classical listeners may not often be patient with prog because handling complexity would not generally be a problem for them. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 11:08
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I tend to taste prog. The Moody Blues tastes like vanilla, King Crimson tastes like an arse stinging madras curry, that yes, makes your ears burn...
In a pleasant way, of course.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 11:49
This is what I've been trying to say. I will agree with your comment that not all prog bands (or artists in general) are this way. I suppose saying 'prog' as a whole is appreciated by us wasn't what I should have said. It's really that the prog we listen to individually is something we appreciate for what it is because not everyone digs it. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 11:53
In all fairness, prog is hard to generalize anyway. Anyhow, yes, the thing that probably makes prog appreciation tricky is it's a whimsical business and very often, lot of people won't get it, not because it's terribly involved but because the expression being projected in it may be elusive to many. I don't know if that's a strength or weakness, I mean hunting for the 'meaning' rather than it being evident immediately is fun in a way , but it seems to explain why prog doesn't have wide appeal. |
Posted By: LastDaysofParadise
Date Posted: May 01 2010 at 12:08
Exactly! It takes more from the listener to really want to listen to the music and to get into it than it does to just go out and buy a record and listen to it. I used to dislike Pink Floyd's last two albums but as of late I've been really getting into them. I think it has to do with maturation; however, I could be mistaken and it's just taken me this long to really get everything going on behind the music. ------------- "If the universe is the answer, what is the question?" |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 00:43
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It's better for me. Isn't that enough? ;-) I'm curious why you would choose The Long and Winding Road. While it's a "pop song", it would be hard to argue that it doesn't have "depth" like prog does. And the ending is positively avant-garde! Even if it's not as revolutionary as John Lennon thought it was.
Or maybe you're forcing yourself to like them, because about half of each album is absolutely dreadful. ;-) ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN THE DAY THE WALL CAME DOWN! |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 01:23
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I'd agree- some music needs your full attention to appreciate. This morning I was reading a book while playing Rush Snakes and Arrows live. The video and audio barely intruded on my concentration of the book. Then I put on Opeth's Roundhouse tapes and I had to put the book down and give Opeth my full attention. Does this mean Rush's music has less depth than Opeth's- definitely! Some music demands your full attention and most don't- that's why we have radio, so you can feel happy while working. Most music is shallow on purpose! Any one song wonder band has probably made more money out of pop than Opeth will make from their full career, but that's not going to stop me from appreciating Opeth more. And Rush fans- I am not saying Rush produces shallow music, just that I can read a book while listening to them.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 01:27
But I suppose giving your full attention to it IS listening. If you just let it play in the background and do something else, you aren't REALLY listening, are you? I thought the OP addressed something more than that...that is, even giving full attention may not sometimes give immediate results in prog. |
Posted By: cobb2
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 01:38
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rogerthat: The brain will always hear what is going on around, no matter what you are doing- something to with evolutionary survival instincts or somesuch... Maybe what I was saying was my brain stopped me from reading and made me focus on the music- perhaps something to do with pleasure centres and endorphins. Perhaps this is what makes us progheads- we are always on the search for those songs with the huge build up that release those pleasureable shivers down you spine at the crescendo Yeah, you're right- too much sexual inuendo there!
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 01:40
I agree with that, but I was trying to say that listening in any case means to give something your full attention and I don't think the OP necessarily addressed just that. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 07:00
I wouldn't be able to read while listening to Rush. There are some instrumental bands I can't listen to, either. I just wind up getting too into the music.
I think it depends on who/what you're a fan of. I'm not a fan of Opeth, so if somebody put them on in the background while I was reading something, I wouldn't have any trouble tuning them out. ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: WileyMarshall
Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 21:44
| I live it |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: May 03 2010 at 11:55
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Yeah and cheese is green on tuesdays...
Just get over it. |
Posted By: Plastic Dreamer
Date Posted: May 04 2010 at 02:23
| I "hear" musak and do not apprechiate it, but I "listen" to Prog to apprechiate it! |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: May 04 2010 at 04:41
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If one wanted to hear a prog album... and went into a record store (if there are any...) and asked the expert shop staff for a recommended progressive rock album... I wonder what the reply will be. Yes, Of course I listen to it. Mind you I'll listen to anything that captures my imagination or interest. Which reminds me, I finally heard (owing to the fact I left the DVD running) a rap song I like. The tune over the credits of the Kurt Russell pic Dark Blue is not a bad piece at all. It has instruments. a tune (more or less) and it grooves and rocks (unlike most hop hop and rap which lurches badly through banal obscenity and appalingly dull drum samples.) Just had to netion this almost unique episode of hearing a diamond in the rough. Unlike prog which is roughly all diamonds. So I hear, I listen and hopefully forget so I can - play the favourites constanly and hear them as new again. Bring on the Alzheimers.... (Bad taste I know. Sorry.) |
Posted By: Lazmo31
Date Posted: May 04 2010 at 14:24
Now, that's deep. |
Posted By: Scoppioingola
Date Posted: May 07 2010 at 11:43
| Sometimes I wish I didn't listen to prog...... |
Posted By: Stonebolt
Date Posted: May 07 2010 at 20:20
I'm going to listen to Lazurus by Porcupine Tree now, and I'm going to do it very casually.
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