Katatonia - which Prog Archives sub-genre?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65481
Printed Date: December 01 2024 at 22:47
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Katatonia - which Prog Archives sub-genre?
Posted By: hardworx
Subject: Katatonia - which Prog Archives sub-genre?
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 08:33
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I do like Katatonia and believe they should be included on Prog Archives - My own choice of sub-genre would be Progressive Metal. ------------- http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ - This link Kills SPAM |
Replies:
Posted By: hardworx
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 08:35
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http://katatonia.com/ and/or http://www.myspace.com/katatonia if you need to check them out! ------------- http://officeofstrategicinfluence.com/spam/ - This link Kills SPAM |
Posted By: enemyofthesundevils
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 09:16
| Good poll. I've been a huge Kataonia fan since the Dance of December Souls album. I went with none of the above as i feel they are closest to the post/experimental arena. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 09:42
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Especially now, they go wherever Anathema / My Dying Bride are. They are (good) Goth Metal, not really that prog. But I like em.
Constant issue with me though. Just because I like a band doesn't mean they belong on PA.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 09:46
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Experimental/Post Metal is where they belong in my opinion. I clicked on "None of the above" by mistake instead of "other". I'm a big fan as well. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 09:53
I entirely agree, with the one difference that I was deft enough to click the right button  |
sinkadotentree wrote:Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 10:05
Yes it's hard to make that distinction. But looking at their entire career I'd say there's plenty of arguments to defend their 'Experimental/Post Metal'-ishness. Musically they fit nicely next to Anathema and the Gathering. They sound more technical and more metal then those bands, so Tool and even Opeth come to mind. That's 3 Experimental/Post Metal bands. And from a pioneering and genre-defining perspective they were amongst the first to push those boundaries. When I started reviewing here, Katatonia was one of the first bands on my list actually so I was very surprised not to find them here... |
Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 10:23
| I like Katatonia's last album a lot. This said, I don't think there is a valid reason for them to be in Progarchives. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 11:28
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I like their use of atmospherics and vocal harmonies, but I just dont hear enough evidence to label them as progressive.
I love the group, but if I had to put them anywhere, it would be prog related. ------------- 
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Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 12:52
they are not even that, imho.
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 13:31
Yep Experimental/ Post metal IMO too. ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 13:46
Why i oughta...  ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 15:22
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Check out MetalArchives for their metal subgenre... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 16:56
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If they ''had'' to be here, Exp-post metal for me as well. Saw them live a few weeks ago, really dissapointed, and their new stuff sounds uninspired and dull. Not many (if any) prog elements IMO - I do however like their earlier stuff (I Break etc.) |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 19:19
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Not a prog band. However if I had to put them anywhere on the site and I had a gun to my head I'd pick Experimental/Post. But I voted the bottom one, since they really just don't belong.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 19:22
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They certainly stretch out a little at times but not enough to warrant being included here
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 19:56
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Experimental/Post Metal. It still bothers me that this band isn't on PA, but I don't think it will ever happen.
------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Jake Kobrin
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 19:56
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Experimental is where they would fit the best here.
------------- http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dr-Neil-Kobrin/244687105562746" rel="nofollow - SUPPORT MY FATHER AND BECOME A FAN Jacob Kobrin Illustration |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 21:35
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Prog metal, I think. I'm very surprised they're not on here. ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: March 03 2010 at 21:47
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Okay, not trying to be too argumentative, but how would they fit in experimental post metal? Their use of pop song structures, clean vocals, and rather conventional use of guitar tone/use does not warrant them Experimental, and certainl not post metal. When you compare them to groups like Isis, Tool, or Kayo Dot, their are really very few simularities. -------------
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 00:19
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^Well, they do have a lot of sludge and doom in them which most of the post metal bands can identify with, at least a little bit. You just add to the case that they are indeed not really prog since they don't even fit with quite a few similar bands. They certainly don't sound closer to Dream Theater, though I suppose they do have a couple similarities to My Dying Bride, which are in Tech/Extreme here now. Still, I think they should be in Exp/Post too if anything.
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Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 00:29
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Wait, are you telling me Katatonia aren't already on Progarchives? What sort of madness is this? They deserve their place here far more than half the metal stuff that goes through. With their excellent musicianship, incredible use of dynamics and complex harmonic structure, there is no reason why they shouldn't be on here already. They even have a DVD through Metal Mind! They've played prog festivals in Poland with the likes of Arena, Pendragon, and RPWL. Progarchives just shot itself in the foot. Honor and shame. ------------- 
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 00:53
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At least the last 2 Katatonia albums which are the ones I still listen to regularly (haven't heard the others for ages and ages) have that David Castillo/Jens Bogren sound, which is anything BUT sludgy. It's top of the line, clean and precise metal production
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 02:14
Metal Mind was a strictly metal label at their beginnings. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 03:17
I think the Katatonia argument will keep going for a while longer. There's always new people coming to PA sharing the amazement that this band is not here. I agree that they are very different from the bands you mention but they are close to many other bands in that sub. The problem with Katatonia is that they'll never entirely fit in any particular sub. They just make the music that they want to make and are not concerned with conforming to any particular style. They sure are not just 'metal'. Way too dynamic and experimental for that. And I do find the lead guitars very unconventional by the way. I can't think of any other guitar player that sounds like Blakkheim. |
Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 03:35
| what the hell... yesterday when I logged in the option "progressive metal" had like 3-4 preferences, while "none of the above" was around 15. Now, not even ten hours later, "progressive metal" has skyrocketed to 22 and "none of the above" remained quite unchanged. What happened?!? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 03:38
Like people came to their senses?  |
Posted By: Kotro
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 03:47
They were included, but removed shortly after. ------------- Bigger on the inside. |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 05:32
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Well... the many threads about Katatonia at least show that lots of people are interested in getting them on PA. Lots of peope also object to their inclusion though. I wonder if some of those who object have listened to every album in their discography or base their opinion solely on one or two albums they´ve heard ( not you H, I know)? The problem with Katatonia ( like it was with My Dying Bride) is that they were once added to PA ( as I understand by a member who didn´t have the right to do so). There was some fuzz about that and they were then deleted. In the early days of the site everyone could add artists which is why ( at least this is my understanding) we have acts like Nightwish here too. I´m not sure but I think Katatonia have been evaluated since then and have been rejected ( at least that´s what the votes indicate: http://progfreak.com/home/progarchives?path=pm/rejected&block=6 - http://progfreak.com/home/progarchives?path=pm/rejected&block=6 ). So to get Katatonia added to PA it requires the yes votes of all current members of the Progressive Metal Team, a very good reason and admin approval. I hope it happens someday, as I think Katatonia would be a great asset to this site and I´m happy to see that I´m not the only one with that opinion. However a strong case must be build for this to even have a small chance of happening. I´ll gladly help out but I won´t be the one building the case ( I actually tried this once but gave it up). Too much work and way too little time on my hands to do it. So if anyone feels they have sufficient evidence that Katatonia are a progressive/ experimental metal act. Please build a case and hand it over to the Progressive Metal Team and we will take a look ( that´s step 1). There are no guarantees that things will change though, so be prepared for rejection. Step 2 is admin approval. We´ll talk about that if step 1 is succesful.
------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 05:33
Very simple: multiple votes are allowed in this poll, so one come click 1000 times and alter the results. ------------- |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 06:47
What about taking a chill pill  ? |
Posted By: idiotPrayer
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 09:40
| OK katatonia is one of my favourite metal bands the two latest albums are absolute masterpieces but under no circumstances prog. They are complex in the way that they use a lot of layers and textures (that's for me what sets them apart from the other metal bands) but if you look at the definitions of prog sub-genres here no-one will fit Katatonia. Not even prog-related |
Posted By: idiotPrayer
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 09:47
Techical w**kery does not equal prog (although it's often included no need to say any names) and where they've played has absolutely no difference. But I agree there is a lot of un-prog metal that should be removed from PA |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 09:58
can we at least pretend to be civil...
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Posted By: Camel666
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 12:02
now this makes sense. I like Katatonia but I don't see them related to prog in any way. I don't get it, can't there be good non-prog bands out there or any good band becomes prog by definiton? |
Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 12:51
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Yes but as you can see above there are several people who don´tt agree with you that Katatonia isn´t progressive. This has got nothing to do with Katatonia´s music being good or bad. The only thing in question here is if the music is progressive or not. You´ve stated your opinion that you don´t find it progressive which you have every right to do but don´t make it an issue about the music being good or bad. It´s completely irrelevant. ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 13:26
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Although i like Katatonia a lot , i cannot say it is progressive, maybe little hits of prog here and there but not sufficient enough to be added here. I get some feeling that everyone tries to push his favourite band in PA. i saw the progfreak charts UMUR displayed in the few posts above , and i saw Kreator suggested for PA, non sense, also Green Day for PA - hilarious, also Lacuna Coil, Machine Head and countless other rejected, for god sake people, lets add any band related to rock and metal here, so we gonna have rock/metal archives then, no need to waist our time seeking for progressiveness, we will avoid just acts like Britney Spears and the likes, unless someone says they are prog ------------- www.last.fm/user/angelmk 
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Posted By: UMUR
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 13:59
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Come on angel that isn´t fair! You´re doing the exact same thing as the Camel dude above my last post which is to imply that people here want to add Katatonia because they like Katatonia´s music. And as I said above that is completely irrelevant. The people in this thread who would like to see Katatonia added to PA want to see Katatonia added because they feel they are progressive and have a place here.
It´s up to those believers to create a strong enough case to convince the non-believers ( man I love those religious terms LOL). As I implied above it will likely fail, but who knows if they haven´t tried? ------------- http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/" rel="nofollow - Metal Music Archives https://rateyourmusic.com/~UMUR" rel="nofollow - UMUR on RYM |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 14:03
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Not that I get to vote, but I have to say....big Katatonia fan, but not prog enough. Tiamat and Paradise Lost next? Type O? I love my goth metal but this is Prog Archives. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: angelmk
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 14:52
UMUR, i wasn't implying on Katatonia exactly, a was more infuriated by people who just suggest some obvious non-prog bands here, and by accedent i unleashed my rage here on Katatonia thread. As far as i am concerned Katatonia has some prog moments for sure. i will support Negoba here, if we add Katatonia, then we also open the door for loads of bands similar to Katatonia, for example Sentenced, Autumnblaze, Nox Mortis, Swallow the Sun,Novembers Doom, Lifelover, and that is some vicious circle , many non prog bands could enter the archives .. ------------- www.last.fm/user/angelmk
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Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 15:03
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 17:37
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: March 04 2010 at 20:56
Well, just to throw some fuel on the fire, Green Day's American Idiot was about as Tommy esque conceptual rock opera as its possible to get for a modern mainstream rock band. I can see why folks might think its prog  ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: (De)progressive
Date Posted: April 14 2010 at 09:41
Actually Novembers Doom and Lifelover has some prog elements even if not they have sure a progressive music style. (IMO)
And you should think the opposite, maybe there are lots of bands in PA that are really not that progressive and there are some bands that had been rejected or removed unfairly although they have enough prog elements in them. ------------- ''Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.'' (Friedrich Nietzsche) 
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Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 13:24
| You left out the only genre I think they would properly fit into! Experimental/Post... especially considering Anathema is already in there and they basically have very similar career paths. |
Posted By: dude1
Date Posted: June 08 2010 at 22:25
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I think Katatonia should definitely have a page on PA. I think they'd fit perfectly in the Experimental/Post-metal subgenre. Now I wouldn't actually call Katatonia "prog", but they are continously experimenting with the blending of styles in their music. They really aren't a progressive rock outfit, but they are definitely progressive in their own right. If bands like Deadsoul Tribe and Anathema are included on this website, then I believe Katatonia should DEFINITELY be on board as well. For those who have not heard it yet, Night is the New Day is very progressive in this aspect. And listening to all their albums chronologically will show the progression of the band unfolding from album to album.
...And I do believe that over the years the word "prog" has increasingly become a broader, looser term.
But, again, I strongly believe that Katatonia deserves a spot in the Experimental/post-metal group, hands down. So I voted for "Other"!
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Posted By: Citizen Erased
Date Posted: June 11 2010 at 17:49
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Experimental/Post-Metal is indeed Katatonia's place I think.
------------- And lo, the mighty riffage was played and it was good 
<a href="www.last.fm/user/jonzo67" targe |
Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: June 13 2010 at 01:05
| ...so it's settled then?? |
Posted By: TheClosing
Date Posted: June 20 2010 at 05:30
| Been a fan of the clean vocal material for quite some time; however, I don't think they belong here. Not sure why Anathema is here either, but whatever. |
Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 09:12
I've always been a huge fan and tried to suggest them here.a funny guy has put metallica in here  but kat not till now
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Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 09:15
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if kat doesn't belong here then sure metallica,fates warning and some others would be outa here,frankly,metallica has a respect,but not here,I would give my best to the person who would remove it! at last,Katatonia is welcomed here,please take a look at what Frank Default has did till today
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 11:23
Look people, once the masses declare something "progressive" then it becomes prog music. Regardless of what the few "experts" or whatever define the genre as for example:
(Taken from LastFM) Those tags are voted on by thousands of people. And the general consensus is that they are progressive metal, so therefore, it is probably appropriate (and fair for the band) for them to be included on the site. Regardless. *Edit: wow, just realized this thread is ancient. |
Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 12:08
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There's been an attempt to get them added more than once without any success. I think they belong here in Post-Metal but would be shocked if they are ever added. At least the MMA site has them and i've been slowly reviewing them over there. ------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart" "Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 13 2013 at 12:55
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Congratualtions on raising from the grave a thread that has dead for three years. There are more recent threads you could have found using a simple search.
I should also point out that Metallica are in Prog Related, no one is suggesting they are or ever were a Progressive band. It has been a long time since we have ever had to state this, but I feel you have made it necessary:
Prog Related is not Prog
- please print this out in big letters and scotch-tape it to your monitor.
Katatonia do not meet any of the requirements for Prog Related, Metallica do.
------------- What? |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 07:40
I think their progressive side are clearly between post and prog metal. But I'll have to agree, Katatonia do not meet any of the requirements for prog related. But accepting Katatonia as a postmetal band in PA would really make sense. p.s. I think Megadeth should be added to the prog related as Metallica.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 07:56
Nope. It really, really, really doesn't work like that. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 08:15
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I don't see what's post metal about Katatonia. Prog related would work.
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Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:07
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degraving a triple years old corpse here,but Kat is more prog than many bands here,if you guys say that it should be a prog related,then why hesitation? although,I'm really sure that there's enough rooms of prog here to place Kat somewhere in |
Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:09
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BTW,take a look up,in these past years,3 years,they've gone more to prog.you can check. for the love of god,I love fates warning,but isn't even as prog as Kat,but is set as prog metal here hmmm
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:16
I have been buying Katatonia albums for over 15 years, I checked, they have not move more to prog, quite the reverse, [and incidentally, I do not love god]. They ain't Fates Warning, they ain't Prog Metal, they ain't Post Metal, they ain't Prog Related. hmmph ------------- What? |
Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:25
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I do not love god either! at least on thing in common! as our teachers said "my class,my rules"
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:25
One man's opinion vs. the rest of the world (see my previous post). Just saying... 
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Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 11:34
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 12:53
 ------------- What? |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 12:55
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 12:56
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------------- What? |
Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 13:11
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ok guys.time for you to sleep.I'll wake you up in 3 years
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Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 13:29
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hey you Geek,go and watch your 300,the movie! and here's your (R)  |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 13:44
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You can at least be more polite and not revert to personal attacks. You are also comparing a band that started off as doom/death and moved to gothic/melancholic melodic metal, with some - I will not deny - art/progressive elements (that does not qualify them as "prog") with a band that defined the term progressive metal! |
Posted By: katatonia
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 14:20
| now that you talk and define logically,I say you're right,and I'm well-persuaded |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 15:44
let's see what the rest of the metal world says http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Katatonia/6" rel="nofollow - http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Katatonia/6 http://www.metalstorm.net/bands/band.php?band_id=137&bandname=Katatonia" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalstorm.net/bands/band.php?band_id=137&bandname=Katatonia http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/groupe-groupe-Katatonia-l-en.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/groupe-groupe-Katatonia-l-en.html http://www.metalkingdom.net/band/band_discography.php?idx=354" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalkingdom.net/band/band_discography.php?idx=354 http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/katatonia/?ac=katato" rel="nofollow - http://www.metalmusicarchives.com/artist/katatonia/?ac=katato |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 14 2013 at 16:49
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Anyone wishing to review a Katatonia album can of course trot along to our sister site, the Metal Music Archives, where we have a full selection available for you to chose from. While you are there you may like to linger a while and browse our extensive archives, where you will be introduced to a veritable plethora of edifying musica metalli to tempt and beguile you. If you wish you may decide to review more than one album, so don't be shy or embarrassed, you know you want to...
------------- What? |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: October 15 2013 at 09:31
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Been into Katatonia since 2001 and due to some sonic experimentation and 'math' riffing they touched prog/art metal quite often without ever being it. Compare to OSI who take similar experimentation and riffing to a proggier level. The only album that would warrant their inclusion for me would be Brave Murder Day which I consider to be some kind of prog/doom/proto-post hybrid. But Katatonia were rejected some 6 years ago when that album was taken into account but not withheld. |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: October 15 2013 at 11:39
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I'm wearing my Katatonia shirt right now. Just saying. What I really love in Katatonia: They are just like some kind of "TheCure Metal". But there's nothing prog about that. The early death/doom days had a prog touch. But not as much as Paradise Lost, and they aren't here.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 15 2013 at 12:17
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I'm currently wearing an Ada Lovelace tee-shirt, but I do have a Paradise Lost In Requiem long-sleeve somewhere. When did Paradise Lost ever have "a prog touch" ?
------------- What? |
Posted By: VOTOMS
Date Posted: October 15 2013 at 16:54
 just kidding, since people are talking about my dying bride, anathema and stuff. And I like Paradise Lost. Never heard anything of Anathema and My Dying Bride though. Any good album? This thread is out ouf control. |
Posted By: proggman
Date Posted: October 17 2013 at 13:07
OK I guess that means that Katatonia is not prog so we're done here, everybody go home.
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Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 14:15
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Experimental/Post metal. Though they would fit well into crossover prog category as well. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: October 24 2013 at 14:19
Anathema is amongst the most interesting prog bands today, and I wouldn't really consider them as My Dying Bride or Paradise Lost alike. I believe you can listen to any of their albums since 1996, the most recommended are 'Judgement', 'Alternative 4' and 'We're Here Because We're Here'. My Dying Bride were quite intersting back in 90's, and had some prog moments, though I wouldn't consider them as a part of prog scene. 'Turn Loose the Swans' is probably their most interesting release. ------------- This night wounds time. |
Posted By: alienshore
Date Posted: October 25 2013 at 10:27
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I think the progressive metal would be right for their style of music |
Posted By: dude1
Date Posted: March 26 2014 at 11:17
| Just a question for people who disagree. What makes bands like Anathema post-metal/prog, but not Katatonia? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: March 26 2014 at 11:36
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Ears? ------------- What? |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: March 26 2014 at 11:44
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Marbles? ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |